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Creating a board game based on RTS games.


X3M

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No worries,

 

But I guess the manuals are still confusing.

The "single" player missions is what teaches you the real game. I have them on paper, but not in the computer.

Main problem is the maps that are needed. Might make some, end of next week, but they are also mainly for my cousin to program.

 

That is, if he accepts my proposals.

The luck with my cousin is; I can show him directly how the game works. Bit by bit.

 

Chances are high that my work is going to change. I will have more responsibility but less time. Where previous work allowed me to walk around like a zombie (read, living in 2 worlds). My new work requires me to pay attention. From that moment on, I will only be able to spend time in the weekends.

 

 

The display of a hexagon grid on the screen is easy. But calculating with the path of projectiles needs math. This seems to be hard according to someone. I have it explained in the manual. But if you don't understand, please ask me. 

 

I guess, the hardest part is the corners of the hexagons, touching the path of the projectiles.

There are several ways to do this, there must be a good one for programmers. Right?

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I actually got questions about the statistics card that I posted up here. Although the questions came from my cousin. I decided to post them here. I consider them valid questions.

 

Q - Why is it possible to spend XP on walls and mines? Walls can't kill and mines are gone after exploding.

A - Well, the game contains cards with bonus XP. These cards can also be spend on the walls and mines beforehand. See it as if the card is an upgrade.

The 1200 XP card for example fits neatly on the Wooden Fence. This Wooden Fence only requires 30 XP for each extra Health in the first 6 upgrades. Then of course it increases in level too. The XP you could spend is:

30+30+30+30+30+30+60+60+60+60+60+60+90+90+90+90+90+90+120 = 1200. The Wooden Fence is upgraded with 19 extra health. So a total of 25 health.

This does not sound logical at first, since building 3 extra Wooden Fences would only require costs 90. But the XP can be spend if you have no money. This also can save units, or make a mine deadlier. If the card can divide XP amongst several units. You can get yourself more health on Wooden Fences. 40 extra health. Which can postpone unit death by at least 1 round.

 

Q - Why would I build Sand Bags?

A - If you are dealing with anti infantry and anti tank weapons.

Anti infantry are worse against Sand Bags by a factor 3 in costs and 3 in effectiveness, a total of 9.

And you can have 1,67 times more sand bags than concrete walls. Of course that difference is also to be taken twice since the tank weapon costs is also 1,67 times. A total factor of 2,89.

 

Q - Why are there so much differences in the XP that can be spend on upgrades?

A - Just so happens, you also pay for your statistics. But the XP has been divided since certain statistics are more useful than others in certain maps or on certain units. This increases fun.

 

Q - Can you do the same, but then with 2 or more different resources?

A - Rather not, different resources actually make a game imbalanced between unit classes. I tested that over and over. Spending XP is a different story though. Since you actually have once again 1 type of resource. You simply buy an upgrade instead.

 

Q - If a map has no resources, why would I want Workers or other resource gatherers?

A - Mobile walls. Even though, a worker is 75% costs than that of a Rifle Infantry. Nah, you are right, they are rather useless here. Especially the Jeeps version, which costs the same as the cheapest other Jeeps. Only the Worker and the Cargo Truck might be somewhat useful.

With a full region, 4 Workers and 33 Rifle Infantry actually beat 36 Rifle Infantry. And that one is very close. Only that situation is known. So, they are not really worth it in the long run.

 

Q - I don't get it. How do you know that 4 Workers with 33 Rifle Infantry actually beat 36 Rifle Infantry?

A - You let your Workers die first. By simply subtracting the damage or units on both sides, you can see the difference very quickly.

4/33 versus 36. Playing 1 round. Where 4/33 becomes 0/31 and 36 becomes 30,5.

So after 1 round you have 31 versus 30,5. The left side will obviously win in the long run.

 

Q - So 8/30 versus 36? Becomes 2/30 versus 31. Now what?

A - That one requires one more step to be certain.

5 more death on the left side plus a little bit of damage. 2/30 becomes 0/26,83. While the right side becomes 26.

Once again, the left side has a bit of an upper hand. 26,83 versus 26.

 

Q - Ok, let me do the next one?

12/27 versus 36.

6/27 versus 31,5. (A - Remember, that half one gets saved, so 6/27 versus 31 and 3 health)

4 health / 27 versus 26 and 3 and 3 health

0/23 versus 21 and 3 and 3 and 3 health

A - Now you got the hang of it. But this one is tricky. The right side still does more damage then the left side. You need to keep calculating to know the end.

 

Part 2:

Q - So, did you just make those XP numbers up?

A - No, they are based on the unit statistics. And are calculated with some formula's.

 

Q - 6750 XP needed for the Rocket Launcher, Speed 2 becomes 3? Why would anyone do that?

A - How much units are there that have Speed 2? You can start outrunning units, while you still have your Range of 8 too. If an unit has the most of Range and Speed in a game, that unit is invincible in open maps.

Q - Yes, but the Rocket Launcher needs to kill 12 other tanks. That takes 36 rounds.

A - If you have 3 of them working together. The last one will get the kill. That would be about 600 XP every round. More if you first train that Rocket Launcher in damage as well.

 

Q - Why damage?

A - The Rocket Launcher shoots 2 projectiles. As soon as it had 3 upgrades on damage. It will be as if it shoots 3 projectiles. And the killing speed for that Rocket Launcher goes from 3 to only 2 rounds. When you kill faster, you gain faster XP. That's why the Health and Damage upgrades are cheaper in XP. The Speed and Range only serve as an exponential effect. I made this choice because maps are limited. Players rather increase durability of units than units that hop around.

 

Q - So if I get it straight. It is better to train 1 unit then dividing the XP?

A - Yes, to a certain level. Then it would be better to give that unit a little hero friend.

Q - What is the most useless unit in this list?

A - Uhmmm, I don't know. For a full game they all are useful.

If you remove resource management, those are rather useless.

If you remove the need for a base. Then the defences are rather useless too. This includes the 3 mine sweepers.

Then only 12 units remain. And they are useful or useless depending on the map.

 

Part 3:

Q - Mine are visible. Why?

A - Then pull up your pants, that's why. Ow, you mean thè mines? Well, it is a board game. Some sort of cloak or stealth was possible. But a bit to hard for players to understand or play. Perhaps in an electronic version it is possible to implement this. But then I might as well ask for a real RTS. So, we keep a board game playable version in mind.

 

Q - The Howitzer has no chance against approaching infantry or jeeps? Even Assault Tanks have better chances?

A - The trick in protecting your Howitzers is their range. First; if you have several regions filled in front of the Howitzer. A lot of units can't get close. Second; protect them with walls in the front and back. Unfortunately the enemy might still use the flank card. Third; use them in a open field, or a chokepoint path. Where they serve as an extra support for any other region that has to fight.

 

Q - The Guard Towers and Turrets don't have much range. They aren't useful?

A - There are plenty of units that can get in range. It is simply to keep them out with a cheap solution. Just like how mines and walls keep units out.

Q - Ok, the Grenade Tower. There is only 1 jeep that would get into range for fighting. But you simply don't do that?

A - You are correct. But remember, you can upgrade simply every unit by training on your own units. With only 450XP it would already have + 1 range. They have very cheap XP training. While all the units have a much more expensive training costs. On the other hand, it still has dual damage. So 3 of these are able to destroy a jeep that passes by. Once again, a cheap walling system.

 

 

Edit:

Some of these calculations are now outdated.

Edited by X3M
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  • 1 month later...

Right, some more faq's where coming in. I gathered them and post them now here. Perhaps it will give some people strategy idea's and a better understanding of the game. Or it becomes more confusing, then I suggest to ignore these faq's :unsure: .

Part 4:

 

Q - I think I have found a useful way now for the Guard Towers and Turrets. They are good in curved canyons, unit won't be taking those paths then. Although, why would I increase their range with XP?

A - That's a good approach of using them. And the answer to your question is, an enemy might run though your region and enter your base behind it. In that case, during his/her movement, you might kill some units. And use that experience for more range. Then you might be able to defend your base as well. And surprise your opponent that thought to be at a safe distance at first.

 

Q - I did some calculations on the regions where you can build, and the walls that you can build. You can build on 18 regions with the Construction Yard. That means each region has at least 6 wooden fences, 2 Sandbags and 1 Concrete Wall. Ignoring the Concrete Walls, I already have 3 Wooden fences and 1 Sandbags in the front line and the same stuff to cover my back. So when someone attacks me there, that means 72 hit points against anti infantry weapons or 24 hit points against anti light (jeeps) weapons and against anti heavy weapons. The cost of this little protection is only €180 in the front and €180 in the back. There is no squad able to destroy all of this before reaching more expensive units. And rebuilding it is no problem.

A - You noticed fine. But remember. The enemy can attack your resource units instead. The enemy can use flank cards. The enemy can attack from more then 1 region. The enemy also can do hit an run tactics and train on you. So, those walls are good protection. But hiding behind them will mean a slow and certain death to you.

 

Q - Hey, the Snipers have a way in defeating those Howitzers.

A - Yes, if the Snipers have an assault card, they actually can kill Howitzers before they return fire. And if you fool the Howitzers with some bait, you can even do without an assault card.

 

Q - Snipers are OP.

A - They can be defeated in many ways. Remember the anti infantry units in the Jeep and Tank section? And if you go mass Rifle Infantry, with use of the environments, you can catch them too.

 

Q - Snipers can be walled in as well, with any counter there is. So OP.

A - Your enemy might be ignoring your Snipers and simply go for other units that your have in that region. And your enemy might take some "anti" Sniper material as meat. If you make a mistake. Or your enemy has drawn the right card after a while, your Snipers are done for.

 

Q - Are mines OP? They look OP since you can rebuild 1/3th of all the mines within one round.

A - You would need €3600 each round. The resources will be significantly less. If correct, the highest possible income would only be €1200 on the known 1v1 maps. So it is 1/9th rebuild speed. Even though your harvesters could carry a total of €5600 if used as storage. Anyway, with €1200 you can rebuild 20 anti infantry mines. That would be your fastest rebuild speed. The sweeping with all sweepers has a speed of 24,5 mines. No matter what mine you sweep. On top of that, they gain experience for it too. After 6 rounds, 1 region of sweepers will have about +16,7% faster sweeping speed, or 28,5 mines.

 

Q - How about placing the mines when needed?

A - If you mean as early defence? Then they are rather useful.

If you mean for chasing away the enemy out of your base? Then you have a little problem:

First, you need to declare that you are going to build them. Then the enemy moves in, but you don't know if he/she would be moving in. So he/she would only move in if you didn't declare building mines.

Once moved in, you would be declaring in the second round for those mines. Then he/she would be moving away, or stays for an attack.

In round 3 you finally can stop the enemy with mines. But it might be too late. With luck for your enemy, he/she will have had the chance for 2 attacks with the same squad. And whatever is targeted, that will be dead. Only short ranged units would be pulling this stunt. They are often numerous. So mines would have the least effect. And you never can build enough for instantly taking out the attacking squad. With the €1200 that is.

 

A smart player moves in, forces you to place mines, or cancelling them. And once placed, he/she simply sweeps them.

 

Q - How about I wall in the mines?

A - That is not possible by the rules. Mines are sub terrain, so the mine sweepers have sub terrain weapons. They ignore what is on the land. Walls can't block anti air weapons either.

 

Q - Will the future have sub terrain walls then?

A - Perhaps :D

 

Edit:

Again, some of these FAQ's have become outdated.

Edited by X3M
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A nice start, good job

 

- Unit's didn't move? Or, I don't know which one could move. Might be my fault.

 

- Out of experience I know that players rather have hexagons that lie down than standing ones. So do my maps. Is it fixable?

 

- Hexagons did show another line. And sometimes I see very small and long gaps between the hexagons. Might be my screen.

 

- I see a lot of 6, is that the health? If so, started we communicating back when I only had 6 health and notching else? I believe the Laser Tanks and Minotaurus are supposed to have different health? Perhaps you could post here what statistics you where using. Maybe there needs to be a fix to this. After all, you need to start with the right database for proper future works.

 

- I like the dessert texture. Did it come with a package with other terrain?

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Units can only move if all the selected ones have sufficient speed. This information will be visible somewhere I suppose.

Can rotate the hexagons, just been focused on polishing other things.

Same with the gaps.

6 is the health. Different health values will be np - afterall, the unit data will be loaded from a file (soon), which is kind of the whole point, a game that can easily be tinkered with.

Texture is from the internet somewhere.

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Anyway, I think it is time for me to do a request. If anyone is going to read it:

In need of pictures, the feeling has to be that they belong to each other. Meaning, you can't combine C&C dawn with C&C3 pictures since they are different. But red alert and dawn are somehow the same.

 

Now, for this board game I would like to have the same. Without using my awe full drawing skills of course.

 

The units that we need are:

 

Infantry;

Worker

Rifle Infantry

Grenadier

Rocket Soldier

Sniper

Mine Sweeper

 

Jeeps/Vehicles;

Gatherer (hum-vee type of unit)

Gracer (Jeep with a chain gun on top, like the Ranger from RA)

Attack Jeep (Jeep with a "single" grenade launcher on top)

Rocket Jeep (Jeep with a "single" rocket launcher on top)

Mortar Jeep

Mine Hunter (A jeep, have no idea how it would look like)

 

Tanks; (but rather light compared to future "light" units ;)

Cargo Truck (something like a truck :) )

Assault Tank (A light tank with a chain gun on top

Artillery (A rather light cannon version, does not kill infantry)

Battle Tank (basic very light tank)

Rocket Launcher (early WW2, has 2 rockets on top)

Mine Crusher (like the mine layer from RA, but now it kills mines)

 

Defences;

Wooden Fences

Sand Bags

Concrete Walls

 

Chain Gun (operated by 1 person)

Mortar (operated by 1 person)

Howitzer (still operated by 1 person)

 

Guard Tower, like the one from Dawn

Grenade Tower, somehow we need to know it shoots grenades instead, this time 2 grenades

Rocket Tower, 1 rocket, but we need to know by seeing.

 

Quad Gun, a bunker that has 4 rifles, perhaps like the AA from C&C3, but then against infantry

Grenade Launcher, a bunker again

Cannon Turret, like in Dawn

 

Anti Infantry Mine, like RA?

Allround MIne, have no idea yet how this one would look like. Something that serves for shredding wheeled units.

Anti Tank Mine, like RA?

 

I think I need to find the time for drawing pictures myself. But it will take a loooooooooong time. Unless a skilful person would like to give it a try.

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I don't know why.

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaign/the-cytherian-annexation/wikis/cytheria-planetary-survey

But I think this site will be of good use to me as learning material.

 

The missions that I have thought of. Those little maps combined don't really fit into a big map.

So, a planet has to be thought of. And then be mapped properly.

 

This also means that each future map will have some sort of entrance at one of the edges. It makes sense. Right?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Decided to work the other way around with mapping. Starting with a planet first is kinda lame, it fixes future works too. So I will think of a mission, and work from there with each new mission. Sometimes a place revisited, or implemented in a bigger area.

 

Some thoughts now.

If you have suggestions on the following, please let me know.

 

Not sure yet how big the place will be. But each €3600 (6 Nod Light tanks) area will have a diameter of 100 meters, this means that moving with speed 1 is 100 meters in 1 turn. A light Infantry unit will be moving 200 meters each turn. But also can fire 200 meters far. Now, it is still a game, so realistic stuff is not really needed. However, it still needs to sound logical enough for a story and pathtracking.

 

Or else it would sound chaotic for me. (And some others)

 

With this as a given, translated to the real world. It would mean that the light Infantry unit (4 km/hour), needs 180 seconds to walk 2 regions. So 1 turn/action could be 3 minutes. This sounds reasonable. So I aprove..... for now.

 

R(egion) (1 Range)

Area is 8660 m².

1 hexagon play field for a squad (can contain anything of units and/or structures in combination).

It can contain various types of terrain. In sections of things that can divide 3600. (9 gives sections of 400, 16 gives sections of 225 etc.). So 4 sections where 2 are water, the terrain is for 50% water. Each region will have a texture corresponding its values of terrain. There are no terrains that can block units with less then 100% mountain, if Z100 is open, a unit of Z100 can pass. A zoom on this Region will contain information about the squad in there.

 

K(ilo)R (area 36 R)

Area is 0,31 km².

1 sub mission, 1 hexagon that contains 36 Regions. There are 1/2th and 1/3th Regions.

The very first mission will be only this big. The biggest distance in such a KR is from 1 corner to the other, 8 steps. Or 4 turns for a light infantry. A simple mission will contain at least 1 KR, but can contain several KR. Each R is still visible like mentioned in R.

 

M(ega)R (area 36 KR)

Area is 11,2 km².

1 mission.

It will be viewed again as a hexagon. But now you see the KR as possible choices. Sometimes you see 2, 3 or more connected. Each KR will have a texture now, that corresponds with the terrain as if these where only segments in R. Sometimes a mission has several MR. The missions can be connected nicely with sub missions. So certain area's will have several revisits.

 

G(iga)R (area 36 MR)

Area is 404 km².

1 Chapter of missions.

Around 400 km² or a 20 km by 20 km area. Now the MR are visible like little hexagons. Their textures are based on the KR. Again, 1 chapter might contain several MR. This size is comparible with a piece of land with 2 to 3 medium sized towns in it.

 

T(erra)R (area 36 GR)

Area is 14546 km².

1 Campagin with several chapters. In a place that has the size of between the following 2 countries :)

158 30px-Flag_of_East_Timor.svg.png Oost-Timor 14.919 km² 159 30px-Flag_of_the_Bahamas.svg.png Bahama's 13.943 km²

 

The area is about 40% that of the Netherlands. So I got good comparison for myself. :)

 

Well, going beyond this would mean several campaings in the next version of the game. But that is far into the future work.

As you can see, no need for a planet filled up already.

 


 

Let's compare Dune 2 with this :)

1 Campaign, 1 campaign map, has 27 Area's in total.

Each Mission has 32x32 fields or 62x62 fields. 3 and 24.

A total of 95328 fields. 1 field contains 1 unit.

 

The size of the units are discuable, but lets say 5 meters in lenght. So 25 m² for 1 field.

The entire Dune2 map would have only 2,38 km².

If the Dune 2 map is folded into a sphere, this sphere would roughly have a diameter of only 871 meters.

I don't know about Dune 2000 though.

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I am a guy?

 

(stupid dutch humour)

 


 

Actually response:

SORRY!

Stupid thing is, I turned notifications off, then I wouldn't receive emails? That was the plan.

Seems, I don't get the red 1 here either. Will check it immidiately. And check it immidiately.

 


 

By the way, this guy did roughly the same as I have mentioned:

http://muleabides.wordpress.com/2011/09/02/hexomancy-making-the-perfect-maps-for-adventurer-conqueror-king/

 

His large hexagons contain 25 smaller ones. The central of each is a hexagon (which is in my opinion that of a pro).

The difference is that he then uses normal boxes. But I guess he wants to print it on A4 (maybe A3).

 

His game is more that of a sand box. So there is not much zooming in for specific missions. You can simply walk out of a mission and do something differently somewhere else.

 

I am planning on locking the player into a situation where he/she HAS! to fight.

 

For now I am planning on how to draw a KR with ease. If I can get it planned right. I will be able to do so in paint. The shape wont be perfect but close. And empty of course. First I need to know the size before planning what to paint in the R.

 


 

Yes, this is what I am talking about. 36 in 1.

http://delvelord.blogspot.nl/2012_08_01_archive.html

He is putting it to good use too.

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Instead of 1 KR, I decided to show you guys, 1 MR.

This will be used by me, for planning the first campaign.

 

24 bit map costs 12 mB.

16 colours, only 2 mB.

Seems the PNG still has perfect pixels and costs only 134 Kb. (2161 x 1945)

If I where to scale up to 1 GR, it would be like around 5 mB in PNG. Not to mention, the size of the picture in 24 bit map. Ah, o well, 0,5 gB it would be. :)

 

I have not yet decided on what each region will be. O well, enjoy.

 

post-2682-0-46162000-1373804465_thumb.pn

 

If you want a clean version, please let me know. I can email it to you in BMP or PNG. BMP has a bit brighter green though.

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Fun things do happen!

 

If I try to make a GR (36 times the picture above), my pc crashes. :D

Even though it would only be around 5 Mb big as a PNG file. In paint it is still 24 bit baby!.

Anyway, that would mean that it would become a file with size 442 Mb.

Hmmm, my RAM is 1 gig, how come it can't handle 442 Mb?

But yeah, my pc crashed on a paint picture. :)

 


 

In other news. I tried some weird stuff again with my formula's.

 

So 1 simple questions (that probably will not be answered -.- )

 

Ok, here it goes:

- The unit that I am talking about is a very strong armored tank (mammoth or devastator kind of armor).

- With a very long ranged weapon (sniper, SSM-Launcher, V2/V3-Launcher kind of range, maybe further).

- It is slow (same speed as normal infantry).

 

- The weapon is.....

a rifle (the one from the rifle infantry, not the one from trikes or humm-vee's or whatever)

 

Would you use it?

Is it useful? How?

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I mean, somehow paint works in 24 bit. While your picture is saved as PNG.

I checked my RAM while expanding the size. Even though it was empty.

 

Same goes for Excel too. If you have a field of the maximum. Not much happens. But give them all a colour by selecting all fields (not the simple way, but the drag way). And your file suddenly shoots up in needed memory.

 


 

Anyway, I am still curious about the unit.

Would you use it?

 

The main problem is, when an unit receives a lot of range. No matter how weak the weapon. The costs for the armor is sky-high rocketing. This is the only situation that I think of my calculation as flawed. After all, what use is range alone, to your armor? You need to think of a combination of range with the damage, until it is of use.

 

I think I was to happy with my cost calculation in the past, since it gave so good round numbers.

 


 

I could post here the 16 unit combinations:

Where you have durability low or high.

Weapon strength is low or high.

Speed is slow or fast.

Range is short or long.

 

There are 3 out of 16 units that I personally never would use. It's those units that have high durability with low weapon strength. And speed or range is maxed out, or both are maxed out. They are only of use if you want to annoy the enemy and keep them busy. Or they get the job done in a slightly cheaper way then the high weapon strength units. I do know of situations that require these units.

 

The one that has short range and slow speed can act as a meat type of unit and is ok. The costs for the last one is also acceptable. However, the other 3 are way to expensive compared to all other units. You simply wouldn't buy them?

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  • 2 weeks later...

It seems I have not enough variables to play with.

 

Computer-Error-Funny-2.jpg

 

I choose the second ehm, "option".

 

Since I (re)discovered that Range has notching to do with Armor.

Previously thoughts:


Unit durability increases weapon effectiveness (Damage over time) and thus Range effectiveness.

Range amplifies Damage and thus increases unit durability.

New statements (or very old ones):


Unit durability, only affects Range indirectly by increasing weapon effectiveness (Damage over time).

Range, only affects unit durability indirectly by amplifying Damage.

Yes, the fact that I had changed my thoughts somewhere in the past is due to the hit and run units. Speed and Range work together. We did not have that in the text based version of the game.

 

I am trying to rewrite the formula. I do have found 1 with the basis of a very old formula. Splitting the formula in 2 factors instead of 1 that I had for my board game. However, the prices that come out of the new calculations are to be compared with those of Warcraft 3.

 

210, 290, 575 instead of 200, 300, 600.

O well, at least I can add multiple weapons on an unit without having trouble calculating the effects on Armor for each.

 

So how come I had neat prices for my units when I was still playing with tibed? And I was not designing for a board game where I only have 4 variables? I had more variables to change in the past:

- Cool-down

Not board game material unless I add 1 to 3 counters. And I already have way to many counters.

- First shot advantage

It would change support units into cheaper or more powerful units. But you only have this variable if you have the Cool-down as well.

- Health

I currently use 6 as a basis for all the units. however, I could change this for the better. Problem 1 is, the basic Armor cost count would need a change. Problem 2 is, the balance changes again due to small versus big. Then I might as well discard the whole system.

- Sight

To H#!! with this one. It has almost no use in my opinion. Only thing would be if sight is more or less than Range. It works more with Speed.

- Splash

All part of the weapon system.

 

The forgotten variable:

Well, there are actually 5 variables that I can play with instead of 4 (A, MD, S, R) at this moment. Size is the 5th. However, changing 210 and 290 into 200 and 300 with size corrections is not going to happen. The new sizes would be 231,525 and 270,989. Players can't cope with this. Right?

 

So, what now? If I where not to change the formula I encounter several problems:

- 3 out of 16 basic designs are "flawed". Meaning, you can have them. But you pay 50% to much on average compared to other units. Simply due to the calculations.

- Further more, players don't want to use that kind of units. Weak weapon, strong Armor, slow Speed and huge Range. Well, I would, but not for that price.

- Third, I now have noticed that this is why I had so much trouble adding different ranged weaponry to one unit. After all, crushing is 0 range while a Sniper is long range. Combining the 2 would result in changing a rule on part of the Armor. With splitting the factor into 2 factors, this problem is long gone.

 

Maybe I should even remove the Speed addition to the weapon costs. Hit and run units only are exponential effective (2 directions) in open fields.

And to counter the exponential effect, I could use the SUM formula to Speed and Range. Meaning, 1 Speed costs 1, 2 Speed costs 3, 3 Speed costs 6 etc. But that would only make things more complicated. And my game is based on linear warfare.

If I where to remove Speed and Range, and simply setting non-movable / movable rules. Would mean that a lot of strategy and tactics are lost.

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  • 2 months later...

I wonder how people feel about certainty in a game.

 

The situation would be that each player has to hit the other player 6 times for a kill.

If a player has a choice of 1 hit each round that is certain,

or 2 hits with each a 50% chance.

 

What would a player choose?

Should a player have a choice in this?

6 rounds for ending the opponent sounds safe, but is it worthwhile?

3 lucky rounds means a win for the other choice, but there is a risk on infinite long battles...

 

And perhaps it is a "dead" question. But how do you feel about this?

 


 

All I know is that the Rocket Launcher from Dune 2 has this kind of gamble. If you hit, the other tank is almost dead. If you miss, your almost dead.

I found myself hitting, and then running away. Which makes the game more dynamic. In games like Warcraft2 you don't see this. Even C&C didn't have this. So Dune 2 had a dynamic part that only returned in Starcraft.

 

I intend to add this to my game. Even though I am forced, I am glad I have found a way to implement it.

My co-worker doesn't like the idea. But then again, he forgets I am the only one playing it.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well, I have a solution to my problems. Took me long enough.

The weapon system is now completely separate from the health system in the formula. This removes more problems than I thought.

 

I have also introduced accuracy and agility.

Basic health went down from 6 to 3.

Suicide units become less useful, but still chase of others.

Killing goes twice as fast, and that means gaining twice as fast experience.

Experience is now worth twice as much, so in the total picture, you can double up 4 times faster.

Uber units after gaining a lot of experience, might still have a chance on missing targets. This depends on the accuracy and agility.

Designing units is more complicated now, since I have more statistics to work with.

Some units for my first box have changed... a lot.

 

I am back at where I ended with my progress.

Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:14 PM

Yaay!

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  • 2 months later...

Well, it has been some time since I posted about my board game.

I am making a lot of progress lately since I have some play testers.

I keep the map simple, simple colours and simple usability. The map is roughly 1 by 1 metre large.

 

There are 2 maps they like to play:

post-2682-0-43768000-1390780464_thumb.pn

 

Is for 2 players, but a third one wanted to join. So we are now playing this one:

post-2682-0-08028000-1390780465_thumb.pn

 

This second map has less cramped situations. And it allows 3 players.

However, a maximum of 6 is the goal.

So I still need to think things through.

 

As you can see, I have had some Dune influence. I still portrait the resource fields in orange (sand too).

The red-brown are mountains.

But players can build and move on sand, grass and forests.

Water is of course blue.

Purple (sand or grass) are the starting locations of the players.

 

Movement is only allowed 100% on sand and grass.

50% on forests.

0% on mountains and water.

 

The dots in each hexagon are used to determine the hit chance of the projectiles.

mountains block 100%

forests block 50%

If 2 dots are connected while crossing a side of a mountain or forest region. Then the effects are halved.

mountains block 50%

forests block 25%

This is determined by first rolling the chance for if the region is going to have effect or not.

If 2 regions have influence on the line, then each is decided individually.

 

The game has become a true dice feast. Where you need to roll dice when there are:

-enemy movements

-terrain effects (1 or 2 rolls for each terrain)

-accuracy of projectiles

-agility/durability against projectiles

-XP spend on projectiles

 

This is the current list of units and defences that we play with.

post-2682-0-72144700-1390781403_thumb.pn

 

The other structure list is still a simple piece of paper. And we still need to work out how the main structure is going to be.

This current list of units and defences is going to get an update soon. XP for damage will be altered.

And if someone is interested. I will post a list of the meaning of each statistic and how they work.

 

Guess how I am calling this game :D.

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I tried to recreate a board game rts myself..

Fully based on dune..

But somehow I need to decrease the number of cards used..

especially spice cards..

I like your ideas and hence I began..

I haven't posted anything about it for now..

I have done 2p game but 3p 4p etc are still not possible..

How did you do this??

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Great to see that there is a response. :)

 

I can't tell you how to do it. It is your game. So you just do it. And if some people tag along in the progress. You could get responses from them.

 

A lot of trials and errors.

Is what took me.

And a little bit of advice from BGDF.

Sometimes I was so stuck,

that I almost had given up.

2 times a setback of several months.

And 5 years is a long time.

 

:) almost a poem.

 

There are some things that I have learned in those years. And I want to share this:

"Keep records of what you test".

"Keep records of new/old idea's, discarded or not".

"Make sure you prototype everything constantly for real life testing".

"Simplify the game to the core".

"Listen to play testers". (If they don't like something, have trouble doing actions or don't understand certain rules) That with or without them giving suggestions.

"Don't listen to play testers". (If they want you to change something without a proper reason)

"Only ask for suggestions if you want to".

 

It was clear to me what I wanted. Although with testing I had to change a lot. Idea's that I had worked on paper, but where truly a hassle when you played. So in the end, I can say; it was not clear to me how I wanted it.

 


 

I still remember sending you that crappy explanation of only Infantry. Where only 2 regions fight each other. I should have send you a proper document with some files for printing instead.

 

You could print those maps out if you want. They are my first tier prototypes. All you need to add are units from the list.

But I don't have proper pictures for them yet. You could use anything you want.

Make sure 1 small hexagon has sides of 4 cm.

The total map should be: sides of 48 cm (96 cm max diameter, 83.2 cm min diameter)

The unit cards will be having 2x2cm.

And above all, have a proper printer! Can't stress you enough with that.

 

For mapping, believe it or not. I use Paint. It is the fastest and easiest way once you have created a blanc.

I got a lot of complains that the maps where to small.

I am thinking about making the sides 3 cm yet keeping the 48 total side size. So the map expands from 12x12=144 to 16x16=256 regions.

In return I also have to make my unit cards 1,5x1,5 instead of 2x2. And I don't know if the map could hold up to 6 players at that point.

 


 

Hmnmmmm, I should post here what the statistics mean.

 

Unit:
How the unit is called.

 

Group:
Certain production facilities produce a certain unit group.
Barracks train Infantry
Heavy factories train Tanks
Mine layer center lays mines. etc.

 

Number:
Is the maximum number of these units allowed on the board for 1 player.

 

Costs:
Is what a player pays for training/building this unit.
In this version, it is also the size and the statistics of this unit.

 

Armor:
Is the maximum allowed damage on this unit for each projectile that hits.
If the incoming projectile is lower, than the Damage of the incoming projectile is used.
1 Sub T: 1 is the Armour, Sub T means it is a sub terrain unit. And the enemy only can use AT-X weaponry for hitting this unit. It also has its own dimension for a maximum of 3600 placed in a region.

 

Health:
Always 3 times the Armor. Structures have 15 times the Armor. When there are enough damage counters on this unit, it dies.

 

Durability:
When an enemy attacks this unit. It is what the enemy needs to roll, or less, for each projectile.
Meaning, if it says 6. The enemy doesn't have to roll, it is a hit anyway.
If it is for example 4. Then the enemy needs to roll a 4 or less for each projectile to place a hit.

 

Speed:
If the unit decides to move, no more than this number.

 

Multiplier:
The number of projectiles that this unit shoots.
3 Sui. (Sui. = Suicidal) Means that this unit shoots 3 times. But immediately dies after.

 

Accuracy:
When this unit attacks an enemy. It is a number that this unit has to roll, or less, for hitting an enemy.
Meaning, if it says 6. This unit doesn't have to roll, it is a hit anyway.
If it is for example 4. Then this unit needs to roll a 4 or less for each projectile to place a hit on the enemy.

 

Damage:
Is the maximum allowed damage with this unit for each projectile that hits.
If the Armour of the enemy is lower, than that number is used.
1 AT-X: 1 is the Damage. AT-X means it can hit sub terrain units only. Each projectile also follows a path underground, like a shock wave. Unlike projectiles above ground, this one cannot cross water, but does cross bedrock/mountains.
50 Res (Res. = Resources).: This unit can carry 50 Resources for each Multiplier. All resources are 50 chips. Bigger units could carry less than allowed.

 

Range:
How far an unit can shoot.
There is a bonus of 1 extra Range if this unit cannot move into that region. Meaning, if a region has for example 3000 worth of units while this unit costs 900. It is 3000+900=3900 > 3600. This unit gets +1 range.
Defenses also can gain +1 range, as if they are able to move.
Production also can gain +1 range, as if they are able to move. But the surrounding regions have to be completely filled instead.
The main reason for this rule is that 0 ranged units don't need to move into a region any more.
Be warned, mines do not apply to this rule since they are underground units. However, if a neighboring region is completely filled with mines, then those adjacent can join the fun too. Especially handy if the enemy moves on a region where the wrong mines are stationed.

 

XP:
Experience costs for increasing a certain statistic on that unit.
Health+: increases Health by one time Armour. More Damage counters can be put on this unit before it dies.
Weapon+: Increases Damage effects in the last dice roll. Normally you roll 0-0-1-1-2-2 with each projectile. Where 0 means a miss, 1 is a hit and 2 is a double hit. With one upgrade you may re roll if you throw 1 or lower. With 2 levels, you have to throw 2 or lower. Once you have reached level 6, you simply use 2 dice. And the re roll is now based on the second dice. Where level 7 allows you to do a re roll of 1 and lower on the second dice.
Both H+ and D+ increase to 2 times the costs after 3 upgrades. Then they increase to 3 times the costs after another 3 upgrades. etc.
Speed and Range increase by 1 after paying the XP. Then the very next time the XP costs increase by SR+
NO means NO upgrades possible.

 


 

Well, there you have it. The game should be playable somewhat.

But I still have lots of rules to post. But that is for another time. Me and my buddies have discovered yet another error in one of our rules.

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It isn't real time. And there are no timers.

But it isn't completely turn based either.

 

There are situations where players can cut in whenever they want.

This means that 2 or more players do an action at the same time.

This happens when:

- One player is moving around. And others want to attack him/her. Then players play their turn ahead of time completely, the maximum is until a player spends all actions in that round. But there is also a penalty for the attacking player. So better spend the action points with care.

- A player gets attacked while standing still, the defending player can shoot back at the exact same time. That is kinda playing his/her turn 0,5 ahead of time. This is actually the normal fight.

- Some Event Cards give the right to play a normal action before other players do so.

- Some Event Cards allow a player to play several actions on 1 squad, while it only costs 1 action point.

 

Once an unit has done anything in 1 round, it is done doing stuff. It can be either shoot or move. Unless certain Event Cards are played.

 

- My manual needs updates after last 2 weeks of testing. You get a copy as soon as I have updated it.

I always suck in explaining things.

 

What more do you need?

- As said before, try to print one of the maps on paper. Each region should have a side of approximately 4 cm.

- Until now, for the units, we used papers with names on them. If you can get your hands on paper and scissors, you can simply add units while playing.

- We also used the same size papers for damage inflicted, XP, upgrades (and resources)

- For the event cards, we used normal cards and pasted the word on it.

 

The game is very complex if you play it for the first time:

- First things first. When you start, only pit 2 little armies against each other for training. Force them to fight.

- Once you get a hang of it. You can play on the map instead.

 


 

You are working on a card game? That is different than a board game.

I am curious what you thought of?

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