Post-Mortem: A Discussion on the Afterlife

[SandChigger]

Either way, a mod should have stepped in long ago and made this behavior unacceptable from the beginning.

Oh, pshaw! Mods have stepped in and deleted comments asking whether there's a double standard at play in their moderation.  ;D

Around half of humanity believes in some sort of after-life.

Half of any population is, by definition, <b>below</b> the median intelligence. :)

Oops, it's the witching hour! Time to go kill a cat and pray to Lord Satan! ::)

[Dragoon Knight]

The really absurd thing is that so many people are trying to sound so

[athanasios]

Half of any population is, by definition, <b>below</b> the median intelligence.

This proves nothing at all. Or do you imply that they are morons?

-

People want to know about the afterlife not because they are religious but because they are scarred to death that they will die.

Notice the majority of mainstream religions church (or whatever else) attenders and you will understand. They are aged people with 'one foot in the grave' as the proverb says. Many of them never attended church when they were younger.

[ErasOmnius]

If my style of delivery has struck some as arrogant or prideful, I do apologize for that.

[Wolf]

I have no desire to go off topic.

Quote me! Quote me!

See why I call you "Liar"? And, seriously, what's wrong with you? Are you trolling him or are you just weird?

[ErasOmnius]

See why I call you "Liar"? And, seriously, what's wrong with you? Are you trolling him or are you just weird?

No I don't know why you call me Liar. I don't. I've NEVER lied to you once. I have only told you and everyone else the Truth.

I am not trolling SandChigger. I like him.

When someone comes into the Center, they are scared and afraid. Most people usually smell, have an STD, or have just been beaten up by somebody. I take a deep breath and welcome them. Sometimes they are mean, ungrateful. Sometimes they are vomiting, you name it.

But I try to see them as they could be once theyare cleaned up and changed.

.

Just like I see you that way. Changed. Not going with the 'flow' of The falling West. Using your eloquence to defend the children before birth before the Court, instead of the other way around.

[Dante]

Does making up things that aren't true not count as lying now?

[Wolf]

Saying you've never lied when you have misrepresented my posts, invented false positions that I've supposedly taken, or unintentionally distorted what I've said is itself a lie, and if that weren't enough, continuing in this off-topic discussion when you just said you don't have any desire to go off-topic is itself also a lie. See? You lie. It's what you do. Calling you a liar is the same as... well, you calling me eloquent! It is what it is: embrace it or, in your own words, change.

[Acriku]

On the topic of what we can or cannot call the afterlife, I would have to consider what we call the self. The brain is such a vital instrument in determining our self that without it I cannot fathom how we can remain our self. If you physically alter the brain, you can literally change the personality of that person, or remove important memories. If an energy or misty cloud leaves our newly dead bodies and returns to a nexus of life or spirit, what goes with it? Not memories. Those are physical, and we're learning more and more about how they are laid out in our brains. Not our personality. Our specific mapping and structure of our brain, with our experiences and memories, shape our personality. Those are all physical. What leaves our bodies that we can still call our selves? Is it an afterlife for us or for the energy that inhabited us? If an afterlife exists, I fear it is not for us to experience. At least, the us we came to know. Whatever leaves our bodies, if we cannot connect with it in life then I doubt we can connect with it in death.

If I really think about it, perhaps our afterlife is simply our broken down structure being used by other structures. Our return to Mother Earth, if you will. Before I get all pantheist here, I do like the idea of my body giving birth to so much activity that continues the cycle. Cremating is such a waste of good fertilizer (fertilizer? I hardly know her).

[Rene]

If an afterlife exists, I fear it is not for us to experience. At least, the us we came to know.

I don't think there is such a thing as afterlife, but if there is it would be better if we didn't experience it. Infinite existence would drive me nuts ;)

[SandChigger]

Ever heard of "personality death"? ;)

People gradually change over time. (At least the interesting ones. wink wink) If you lived hundreds or thousands of years, you would eventually become a completely different person, possibly even someone an earlier "you" would have despised. There being no eternal "you" to enjoy it kinda puts a crimp on living forever, huh? ;D

And I can well imagine that living forever would eventually become mind-numbingly BORING.

(As for a Heretic-Jew/Paulian "afterlife" spent bent over praising Holy God and Sweet Ba-Jebus, screw that. ::) )

[athanasios]

Not boring for me. That's sure. So when Jesus grants eternal life I will remind him to spare you two!  ;D

[Dante]

Eternity would only be interesting if you have infinity to spend it in. Hence the idea of a neverending journey.

[Rene]

Sure, a never ending journey sound good. But when facing eternity... wouldn't you grow tired and weary eventually? It's not like were talking about a few million years here :)

[Acriku]

A never-ending journey has its downsides, perhaps a more limited journey in time? Perhaps a piece of time where you get a chance to make something beautiful and share it among others. Or a chance to do nothing. A time when you can have a world that plays against you, or a world that you make for yourself. During this limited existence of an afterlife, you spend your time (or not) with people who have fallen into place at their determined times and with people who are about to reach the end of their time there.

Maybe I'm talking about some plane of existence that we can hope for when we die, or maybe I'm talking about our time here and now. This plane. This existence.

We are the afterlife.

[Dante]

You're doing that deliberately, aren't you? :P

You don't have to keep moving all of the time, Rene. I figure if you have infinite time, you can use it generously. Spend a year in one town. A decade in one country. A century in an ocean. Watch civilisations grow and crumble, or not, if you prefer. Pick up travelling companions. Found a nation. Etc. A romantic could stay in one place for long enough to fall in and out of love before moving on. A pragmatist could stay only as long as it took to accomplish a task (build a house, catch an animal, change a society, breed a new species of goat...). Or simply allow movement to be dictated by whim.

The fantastical nature of this should give a reasonably good indication of my views on the afterlife.

[Wolf]

I think issues or boredom are peculiar only to us and the present state of consciousness that we possess. I have to imagine that different states of being place different demands and limitations on that being, and that it is entirely possible to experience an eternity without becoming what one might call "bored". Presumably, any afterlife worth living wouldn't merely be a copy of this existence, but, as I have alluded to earlier, a transformation that is nonetheless still rooted in these existences.

[ErasOmnius]

Eventually, all existence inherent to evolutionary thought does lead to this episode of ST:Voyager.

Does making up things that aren't true not count as lying now?

...well at least you didn't call me a name.

[Dante]

True, I'd better make up for it this time. Liar, racist, idiot.

There.

And please, sci-fi references are annoying enough when Dragoon uses them, for you to attempt it is just a step too stupid. Especially when you use phrases like "existence inherent to evolutionary thought" without defining them, no doubt because you comprehend evolutionary theory with all the deep, nuanced understanding of a whelk.

[Lord J]

Ackriku: If this is the afterlife, again, what's the point? We still age, lose things/people that are meaningful to us, suffer from sicknesses, and eventually die. Even if each life is a step in the journey, what is the point of reincarnation if you don't remember previous lives?

Dante: An endless journey sounds interesting. It's a lot like the planet/universe-building that Hwi and I have both mentioned, but based more on finding/knowing oneself (I'm really feeling the "/" right now ;) ) than power and any drive to create. It seems like a different perspective on how I would envision my afterlife. This discussion reminds me strongly of the Highlander mythos, though without the concept of eternal death upon the loss of one's head. Maybe the dead would be more like angels, popping in from time to time to change history or to experience some dramatic event. I saw a film when I was a child (I have no idea what the main plot of the film or any of the actors was, maybe one of you would know) that involved the appearance of a certain group of strangers at the point of death. What would it be like to simply appear and study death as it happens to millions of people around the world?

Eras: I haven't seen nearly as many of episodes of Voyager as I wish I have, but I think I vaguely remember this one.  The Q continuum has always held particular interest to me. What must it be like to have infinite, godlike power but the intellectual development of, for example, Q?

[chatfsh]

The Q continuum has always held particular interest to me. What must it be like to have infinite, godlike power but the intellectual development of, for example, Q?

Heh, I

[Acriku]

Ackriku: If this is the afterlife, again, what's the point? We still age, lose things/people that are meaningful to us, suffer from sicknesses, and eventually die. Even if each life is a step in the journey, what is the point of reincarnation if you don't remember previous lives?

It was more of an attempt to reverse the situation. Instead of thinking and hoping and fixating on what the afterlife might be like, what if this is the afterlife? And I don't mean simply reincarnation into the same world. I'm talking about our world being that fantastical realm on the other side. Then the mystery shifts to what kind of world and existence did we have before coming here? Was it a smaller world, a world so different that our existence here and now is such a dream that even the worst life we can have here is so greater? Were we simple-minded creatures that were rewarded (or punished if you prefer) this life now, with the time and condition based on how we performed in the beforelife? Just a fun exercise in imagination. That's all we can do with discussing the afterlife.

[AUselessServant]

I would like to comment on eternity and boredom.

God is a living God, or else He wouldn't be God...logical right?

If God is living them we can have live contact with Him on earth, those who have this contact know that boredom will never be a problem. When during a prayer God starts to fill you up with His heavinly happiness, your spirit only longs for more and more and does not want to stop the prayer. Now this happiness that God gives here, it only a tiny part of what we will receive in heaven. God has no beginning and no end, thus to we need eternity to enjoy Him and get to know Him. He can fill us with happiness and Godly joy for ever, without losing anything or running out of 'happiness'.

Hwi, life is not about having Godly powers and rule around, life is Jesus, its being in His presence, its tasting His love, laying our heads on His chest, enjoying Him, being filled with Him.

The desire of Christians should not be to go to heaven so we can enjoy that beautifull place, but to be with Jesus no matter where He is. He happens to be in that beautifull place, so thats a bonus, but assume He would be in a bad place and we would receive no other gits then to be with Him...I would still desire to go there then to go to a heavnly place where there is no Jesus.

Paul says 'For me to live is Christ and to die is gain' (Phil 1:21). To live is Christ....think about what that means.

God does not expect us to experience His presence and His happiness only in heaven, but His children who know Him, experience it here on this planet, that is why Jesus says that the kingdom of God is inside of us, we can live heavenly life on earth, to taste it, so that we know what we are getting...I encourage everyone to long for this expierence and taste that God is good.

Since we are talking about eternity, I would like to share some thoughts.

Eternity is really long...a billion years is very short compared to eternity, so is a billion times a billion years. Our life (70-80 years) is almost nothing compared to eternity...yet depening on how we live here on earth for this extremely short time, we get our spot in eternity. I think its a huge gamble not to believe in God...atleast try to seek for Him, ash Him to reveal Himself to you. If you are sincere, if you don't know and want to find out, God will reveal Himself to you and you will experience His love...remember, its about eternity...thats a very long time...

[Dante]

What can I say? Some of us have principles that are opposed to tyranny.

[ErasOmnius]

In the particular episode of Voyager, the Q person wishes to kill himself, because he is tired of living forever, and tired of being omnipotent.

So he is granted the ability to kill himself...

...in which he finds he is resurrected as a Q!...and is utterly miserable again. Just kidding, not resurrected.