Origin of Life: Another Great Challenge to Darwinism

[Dante]

Ah, yes, Hitler was an angel and the Hitler we know about is an invention of S, the secret propaganda agency of the Allies who won the war and 6000000 Jews were never killed but committed suicide themselves... (And I hope this thesis will not be included in wikipedia! LOL).

...

From anyone else I'd automatically assume that was sarcasm, but the level of stupidity you've recently demonstrated... I just don't know. :(

[athanasios]

Thank you Einstein, and good night.

[Acriku]

I'm just saying athanasios, you flippantly said it was written in Hebrew but "critical scholars" said otherwise. Perhaps a clarification on why you think it was written in Hebrew?

[Eliyyahu]

Hmm! Since my last post: A lot of backseat moderating and insults.

Now to the meat:

The Gospel of Matthew was written in Hebrew not Greek.

Once again 15 - 30 % of the population that doesn't vote is insulted by what is already posted here.

As a true Christian I don't vote. And I wouldn't vote even if I wasn't a Christian. Show me a Democracy where I can vote. Since none exists I am not going to vote and thus give my consent to the crime that is committed against humanity. No, thanks. As Pilate said: "I wash my hands."

There is no proof whatsoever that it was written in Hebrew.  Though it seems to make by far the biggest attempt to target Jews by quoting the "OT" (often the Pseudo LXX), it is full of instances which show an ignorance of Hebrew.

[MrFlibble]

What does any of that have to do with the original discussion (see topic title :P)?

Seriously, time to close down.

[ErasOmnius]

Oh, come on. This seals it. ErasOmnius is a joke. Either the account is a sockpuppet of someone else on here, or he's just some 16 year old who's mad at his father and gets a kick out of this. "I don't vote, because I don't believe in partaking in the Democratic process, which is one based on Greek philosophy, not on the New Testament?" Who actually believes that? No one is this ridiculous. No, buddy, you don't vote because you're not old enough. Either way, this is all just nonsense. That's actually really reassuring, I'll be honest.

I can assure you, I am a 46-year old male from SE Michigan, USA.

What is so hard to believe that I don't vote? I finally get 'it', so I do not participate in the process. The Republicans and Democrats are ALL playing a game with us -- to control us. Big Corporations, Big Labor, Big Parties, Big Everything.

When it finally dawned on me after reading and re-reading the New Testament, and other historical works from that time; that Christians did not particpate all in the Roman process -- not even the believers who were citizens. I came to only one conclusion. I'm out of the process. By the way, democracy is a Greek process, not New Testament process.

And yes, SandChig, I would be an idiot to establish this identity for years across multiple sites.

Erasmus2 on Dune Wiki, ErasOmnius here, and ErasOmnius on SandChig's own blog.

[Wolf]

Yeah, I agree with Г-н. флибль. The inclusion of athanasios' and ErasOmnius' opinions to the Origin of Life debate--shockingly--did not improve the already-diminished level of discourse. Again, I do not think any poster who tried to get involved in a topic without even reading the many, lengthy, important posts that came before could manage to contribute in a meaningful way, either.

And ErasOmnius, it's not so much that it's hard to believe that you don't vote--many people don't vote--it's more that your reasons for it seem incomprehensible. What, that it's [voting!] offensive to God because it comes from a "Greek origin?" That's honestly absurd. Because the New Testament simply does not mention democracy? The New Testament doesn't mention space travel--was going to the moon a religious/moral wrong? (Think about, Jesus lived in a Roman Imperial backwater which, before that, was a kingdom-theocracy. He probably had no concept of democracy.) Then again, I really suppose my shock here is misguided! I might honestly be able to say that you do the causes of civil rights, humanitarianism, and justice a favor by not voting--based on what you've said in other threads.

[ErasOmnius]

Yeah, I agree with Г-н. флибль. The inclusion of athanasios' and ErasOmnius' opinions to the Origin of Life debate--shockingly--did not improve the already-diminished level of discourse. Again, I do not think any poster who tried to get involved in a topic without even reading the many, lengthy, important posts that came before could manage to contribute in a meaningful way, either.

And ErasOmnius, it's not so much that it's hard to believe that you don't vote--many people don't vote--it's more that your reasons for it seem incomprehensible. What, that it's [voting!] offensive to God because it comes from a "Greek origin?" That's honestly absurd. Because the New Testament simply does not mention democracy? The New Testament doesn't mention space travel--was going to the moon a religious/moral wrong? (Think about, Jesus lived in a Roman Imperial backwater which, before that, was a kingdom-theocracy. He probably had no concept of democracy.) Then again, I really suppose my shock here is misguided! I might honestly be able to say that you do the causes of civil rights, humanitarianism, and justice a favor by not voting--based on what you've said in other threads.

To say that Paul, a Roman citizen from Asia Minor, did not have exposure to democracy, is probably a stretch. It's a straw man argument to compare it to Space Travel, a concept un-dreamed of before the 1870s.

I think that a Christian cannot participate in a Republic, because the individual I vote for, I am responsible for all of his or her votes of legislation. I would be somewhat responsible for my Congressman's vote for the War in Iraq for Oil, and the resulting death thereof, if I voted. And I don't want to be responsible for that. Or for Abortion 'rights', etc.

[Dante]

Better to be impotent than implicated, eh?

[ErasOmnius]

Better to be impotent than implicated, eh?

In a way, yes.

[MrFlibble]

I think that a Christian cannot participate in a Republic, because the individual I vote for, I am responsible for all of his or her votes of legislation. I would be somewhat responsible for my Congressman's vote for the War in Iraq for Oil, and the resulting death thereof, if I voted. And I don't want to be responsible for that.

Sorry for getting even more off-topic, but don't you think you wanna make your life all too easy? "Oh, I'm not responsible for the bad things that happen in this world, because I myself have no associations with the bad people who commit all those bad things". Now that's social, civil and human awareness! ::)

My personal opinion on the matter is that we're all, as parts of humanity, responsible for what's happening in this world, even if individually some of us did not partake in this or that particular atrocity. If we conveniently decide to deny this responsibility and blame someone else for every bad thing that happens, then I'm afraid the most dreaded episodes of our history are bound repeat themselves over and over again (and unfortunately, they are repeating even now :().

[Anathema]

To say that Paul' date=' a Roman citizen from Asia Minor, did not have exposure to democracy, is probably a stretch. It's a straw man argument to compare it to Space Travel, a concept un-dreamed of before the 1870s.[/quote']

Specifically, he was from Tarsus. Ruled by (among others) the Persian Empire, Alexander the Great, the Seleucid (Hellenic) kingdom and finally the Romans. It was never a democracy in any sense of the word. Besides, during Paul's time all old Greek city states had been absorbed by the empire and democracy was a thing of the distant past. I don't think anybody except the learned elite even knew what it meant.

Greece is the cradle of Democracy and Culture. But Democracy and Culture have been twisted to the maximum extend possible nowadays. Shouldn't I defend them? And shouldn't I be proud for the achievements of my forefathers? Not to brag though, because we have shouldered a heavy responsibility: to instill those values to those who lack them.

As a true Christian I don't vote. And I wouldn't vote even if I wasn't a Christian. Show me a Democracy where I can vote. Since none exists I am not going to vote and thus give my consent to the crime that is committed against humanity. No, thanks. As Pilate said: "I wash my hands."

::)

[athanasios]

Read and meditate on my words again.

[ErasOmnius]

Specifically, he was from Tarsus. Ruled by (among others) the Persian Empire, Alexander the Great, the Seleucid (Hellenic) kingdom and finally the Romans. It was never a democracy in any sense of the word. Besides, during Paul's time all old Greek city states had been absorbed by the empire and democracy was a thing of the distant past. I don't think anybody except the learned elite even knew what it meant.

::)

You are right, Paul did not write about democracy at all. But if one believes that the Accuser/Adversary [satan] is in control of the world, and therefore the world's nation-states, then there is no need to participate in its'/their governance -- which is what a Republic is.

[athanasios]

Still God allows them to function and do not forget how favorably was portrayed in the Old Testament the queen of Sheba.

[MrFlibble]

As a character in one good old TV show once said:

"Well, I can't say I'm completely shocked"

:P

[arnoldo]

You are right, Paul did not write about democracy at all. But if one believes that the Accuser/Adversary [satan] is in control of the world, and therefore the world's nation-states, then there is no need to participate in its'/their governance -- which is what a Republic is.

Well, at the risk of further derailing a derailed thread, since you believe in not voting how do you feel about paying taxes?  Some christian anarchists believe that paying taxes condones any actions/policies carried out by the government.  The scripture "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" seems to support participating in government via paying taxes.  However, the french sociologist, Jacques Ellul has a different interpretation.

"Render unto Caesar..." in no way divides the exercise of authority into two realms....They were said in response to another matter: the payment of taxes, and the coin. The mark on the coin is that of Caesar; it is the mark of his property. Therefore give Caesar this money; it is his. It is not a question of legitimizing taxes! It means that Caesar, having created money, is its master. That's all. Let us not forget that money, for Jesus, is the domain of Mammon, a satanic domain!

[athanasios]

A Christian is obligated to pay taxes. YHWH will judge the government if they mishandle that money. Now if the government has gone completely astray not providing for its citizens even the basics, and demands more than it should, then he must follow his trained conscience. Otherwise the Christian will share their sins.

In the country I live, you can very well guess what the majority of true Christians are doing, regardless what most  moron (or not so moron at the end) religious leaders are saying is the Christian course to follow.

[ErasOmnius]

Well, at the risk of further derailing a derailed thread, since you believe in not voting how do you feel about paying taxes?  Some christian anarchists believe that paying taxes condones any actions/policies carried out by the government.  The scripture "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's" seems to support participating in government via paying taxes.  However, the French sociologist, Jacques Ellul has a different interpretation.

Considering that taxes was the question that the Pharisees were asking Jesus about, I am not sure why Ellul has that opinion. In Matthew 22:17, Jesus basically says to pay taxes.

As far as not voting-Why vote? When one votes for a particular candidate, one is participating in all of their misguided decisions.

Examples: The Iraqi War that kills all of those civilians [God cares about those civilians]. The candidate who votes for abortion [God cares about all of the people before birth].

There is no really good form  of government until the Perfect returns.

[Dante]

Inaction is an action as well. You allow someone into office by not voting, you know. If more people had voted against Bush, the war might not have happened. You can't predict the future, which is why people have to use their best judgement at the time.

[ErasOmnius]

Inaction is an action as well. You allow someone into office by not voting, you know. If more people had voted against Bush, the war might not have happened. You can't predict the future, which is why people have to use their best judgement at the time.

We frequently hear this comment as people decide on whom to vote, "He's the lesser of two evils...or, I held my nose and voted."

I strongly believe that whom-ever we vote for, the oligarchs are going to get their way...and nothing will ever change. So, true freedom, in my opinion [and you know I have plenty], is not voting.

[Eliyyahu]

Considering Jesus was crucified as a rebel against Rome, and he lived in a time of anti-tax revolts, in a location which was a hotbed of anti-Roman activity, I think the interpretation that Jesus was telling them to pay taxes stretches credulity.

[arnoldo]

Considering Jesus was crucified as a rebel against Rome, and he lived in a time of anti-tax revolts, in a location which was a hotbed of anti-Roman activity, I think the interpretation that Jesus was telling them to pay taxes stretches credulity.

Actually, Pilate found Jesus innocent of any rebellion against Rome.  As far as taxes are concerned consider that Jesus told Peter to pay the tax so as not to offend anyone (Matthew 17:27).

[Eliyyahu]

Actually, Pilate found Jesus innocent of any rebellion against Rome.  As far as taxes are concerned consider that Jesus told Peter to pay the tax so as not to offend anyone (Matthew 17:27).

Yes, that is why he had him crucified (the Roman punishment for insurrection, a punishment experienced by tens if not hundreds of thousands of Jews at the hands of the Romans), and had a faux crown and mocking sign placed above his head.  Crucifixion is not a Jewish punishment, nor did the Jews have the power to impose a sentence against the Roman will anyway.

Regarding taxes, whether Jesus considered himself the incarnation of God, or a Jewish patriot, it is inconceivable that he would consider anything in the land of Israel as belonging to Caesar, least of all tax meant for the Temple.  As many of Jesus' followers as are explicitly or implied to be zealots, it is unlikely he was not teaching against or actively plotting against the Romans.

[ErasOmnius]

Yes, that is why he had him crucified (the Roman punishment for insurrection, a punishment experienced by tens if not hundreds of thousands of Jews at the hands of the Romans), and had a faux crown and mocking sign placed above his head.  Crucifixion is not a Jewish punishment, nor did the Jews have the power to impose a sentence against the Roman will anyway.

Regarding taxes, whether Jesus considered himself the incarnation of God, or a Jewish patriot, it is inconceivable that he would consider anything in the land of Israel as belonging to Caesar, least of all tax meant for the Temple.  As many of Jesus' followers as are explicitly or implied to be zealots, it is unlikely he was not teaching against or actively plotting against the Romans.

He was holding up a Roman coin.

What the Pharisees were trying to ask was, "Should you not pay taxes...cause a rebellion...which would cause a Roman legion crackdown?" The answer was no.