D2TM Progress

[Rene]

I like that idea, but I don't think it's a good idea to limit the number of starports a player can build. More than three starports should have no effect on the available units, but they can still be used as alternative drop points.

[X3M]

The ammount of starports for each player should be "infinite". The following story is based on "multiplayer???"

I have not yet seen an AI order units.

Now let's pretend that Choam is a player who produces units constantly. Yet Choam is limited to an ammount for each unit.

Based on the fact that you need IX for the Ornithopter just like in Dune2 V1.0, so no Ornithopter with Starport.

[stefanhendriks]

[X3M]

Why based on money? I think it is more feasible to talk about space you actually can take with you (ie, you can only fit X amount of units in a frigate)

The more money, the bigger the unit, is what i thought. It prety much is comparible, the size and the costs? Althought, these numbers are about the stock Choam has back home. Not how much the frigate will carry in an order. The frigate can carry as much as it wants. Or make it so that 1 frigate carries 6 units and you will get more then 1 frigate if you order more then 6 units. Anyway, back to the stockpile, if a certain unit reaches a maximum stock, choam wont produce it anymore, and the prize will start dropping dramaticly.

Calculating the price could be done via this:

((original price) * (max available / amount available )) * wanted percentage.

In the initial siege tank example, this would become

((600) * (10/10)) * 0.9 = (600 / 1) * 0.9 = (600) * 0.9 = 540

So with just 1 available in this example, the prize would be 10 times higher? That's 5400 instead of 540. Or did i misread?

Just brainstorming: You could even keep track of the amount of orders. This way you build up a reputation with Choam. The better the reputation, the more discount you might get ;)

Good idea, but then it would be better to start with more expensive prizes, the 125% i talked about. So only players who invest will get cheaper units later on. 100% will be cheaper, but 50% after some investments will be super.

[stefanhendriks]

So with just 1 available in this example, the prize would be 10 times higher? That's 5400 instead of 540. Or did i misread?

Yeah thats about right. But it could be tweaked of course.

[MrFlibble]

I have checked my version. It's V1.0 on a "386". Yes, the very first version of DuneII :D.

In this version: The starport allowed a maximum of 6 units total and a maximum of 6 if there aren't much of that unit on the battlefield. Where the price could vary between 60% - 140% with steps of 10% and with a maximum of 999 credits per unit. Starport was the only way to get beyond the 25 to get to 100 units total. I always had 22 sonic tanks or devastators before ordering siege. Yip, that was my version.

Sometimes it bugged somehow, then i could order all i wanted, but i got notching. Then, save, exit game, restart pc, start game, load, order last time, and i got it all :D.

Starport is quite buggy in v1.0. First, v1.0 ignores the stock values for each unit that are defined in each scenario. Secondly, you get the "T-0" bug. Finally, don't forget that even though you can bypass the pre-player unit limit (which is 25 units for the human player), you cannot bypass the global unit limit, which is 80 ground units (except Saboteurs and Sandworms) per map.

Is the price influenced by the availability of a unit? (ie, for now I determine the price by taking the original price, and randomize half of it. For example: 800 credits, half is 400, meaning it can range from 400 (800-400) till 1200 (800 + 400)).

Some people observed that the price generally gets higher for a unit type if there's high demand for it, i.e. if you buy lots of these units. Personally I never noticed this.

[stefanhendriks]

Starport is quite buggy in v1.0. First, v1.0 ignores the stock values for each unit that are defined in each scenario....

Ah, so thats why I never saw any difference when playing with these values (that was way back btw).

Some people observed that the price generally gets higher for a unit type if there's high demand for it, i.e. if you buy lots of these units. Personally I never noticed this.

I can't remember if this happened or not. What I do remember is that if you order a unit a lot of times, it will take longer and longer before it was getting replenished (available again) in stock.

[X3M]

Maybe the replenishing was somehow related to the maximum of units in the game.

By buying units, i still had the impression that the price was at random.

[MrFlibble]

What I do remember is that if you order a unit a lot of times, it will take longer and longer before it was getting replenished (available again) in stock.

According to TrueBrain:

We have a function which adds units to your starport. It randomly picks a unit, and adds if it you can order it via the starport. There is a max of 10 units per type per time.

([blog 2009-11-24] GameLoops)

[Gruntlord6]

Some people observed that the price generally gets higher for a unit type if there's high demand for it, i.e. if you buy lots of these units. Personally I never noticed this.

This happens in dune 2000, but I haven't played dune 2 so I cannot comment.

Not that I didn't want too, but I'm spoiled by dune 2000 letting me select multiple units with my mouse, I just can't stand not having that feature :(.

[stefanhendriks]

According to TrueBrain:([blog 2009-11-24] GameLoops)

That gameloops post is quite helpful.

...but I'm spoiled by dune 2000 letting me select multiple units with my mouse, I just can't stand not having that feature ..

Hehe, I must say I am also spoiled. Without that feature I find it so much harder to play.

[MrFlibble]

That gameloops post is quite helpful.

Other blog entries contain potentially useful information too, depending on what you're looking for :)

Hehe, I must say I am also spoiled. Without that feature I find it so much harder to play.

Dune 2 is just about micromanagement. Rubber-band unit selection is just waay to easy - that's why Blizzard always limit the number of units you can select in their games.

[stefanhendriks]

Dune 2 is just about micromanagement. Rubber-band unit selection is just waay to easy - that's why Blizzard always limit the number of units you can select in their games.

I never looked at it that way. I always wondered why they limit it, because technically it is not a restriction really.

[MrFlibble]

Here's an insightful passage from Warcraft: Orcs & Humans FAQ:

In an earlier, pre-release version, you could select as many men as you

wanted, but it made the game too easy and boring. You'd build for a while,

then select all your men to attack, go get some coffee, and start the next

scenario.

[X3M]

Actually, with 4 per group, that was still the case. Even with just 1 per group like dune2. You simply could fast tab between all the units and move to a spot on the map. They would automaticly attack anyway.

And WC1 had 2 huge setbacks.

1) AI kept comming.

2) AI did not recognize situations where they kept losing.

This resulted in out of money for the AI, and the player would have by that time a huge army.

If possible, Stefan should make a bit of AI where the comp attacks from different directions. In later levels, perhaps from 2 or 3 directions in the same time.

And an AI that attacks you harvester from time to time.

An AI that ignores your army, or moves around your army. And attacks 1 of your buildings.

Best way to build up an AI is to play the game, try something, then programm an AI to counter it.

[MrFlibble]

An AI that ignores your army, or moves around your army. And attacks 1 of your buildings.

BTW, this is how the "Kamikaze" type attack teams work in Dune 2 :) They usually go for the Heavy Factory or the Repair Facility, since these two have the highest attack priority.

[X3M]

BTW, this is how the "Kamikaze" type attack teams work in Dune 2 :) They usually go for the Heavy Factory or the Repair Facility, since these two have the highest attack priority.

No, i meant that they actually run away from your units, and then attack somewhere where u dont have defences. A basic result from this AI would be a tank that keeps orbitting your base until it finds a spot to attack safely. (Now raiders will be the worst unit to counter).

You have to trap an unit like that. And this unit will retreat immidiately if it is completely surrounded.

[MrFlibble]

Sometimes unit groups in Dune 2 would retreat, too, but the AI is, of course, not as sophisticated as you described.

The only drawbacks with unit groups in Dune 2, though, is that originally they did not work because of a syntax error in the scenario files.

[stefanhendriks]

Been busy with a lot of stuff. One of the new things is a contextual tooltip. You can (for now) get it by holding T and hover above any structure (units still need to be implemented).

The information shown is still not a lot, but i intend to show range/sight, kills, etc.

How it looks for now:

[athanasios]

It kicks! Could it be better to have the option of a transparent background in house color or not?

[stefanhendriks]

I have changed the color into the team color, it looks like this:

I can make it optional of course :)

[Rene]

That looks good, and useful!

Good to see you're still making progress.

[stefanhendriks]

Quite a lot of progress under the hood if I may add ;)

What you see at the screenshot is a POC (Proof Of Concept), I am now rewriting bits so that it is easier to create such informational boxes/tooltips.

[stefanhendriks]

A bit more progress with the tooltip. Also showing now how much 'protection' a structure has. This means basically how much it is protected/supported by slabs. I will probably add the possibility to support it by slabs , but it will be more expensive than adding slabs beforehand.

Also made the tooltip a bit more nice to watch at.

[stefanhendriks]

A new Development Blog has been put up to show off even newer screenshots of the contextual tooltip. http://dune2themaker.fundynamic.com/?p=57