Muslim call to adopt Mecca time

[Dunenewt]

Muslim call to adopt Mecca time

"Muslim scientists and clerics have called for the adoption of Mecca time to replace GMT, arguing that the Saudi city is the true centre of the Earth."

Read the rest: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7359258.stm

Bit arrogant, no?

[nemafakei]

Every now and then, someone finds a reason why a particular international convention should be changed because there's some slightly-less-arbitrary way of doing things. The fact that it's in the news at all is probably just because some journalist and their editor thinks it'll up the ratings a bit because it's about muslims. I'm quite sure that some Jewish academic has argued there's a really good reason for Jerusalem's time zone to be standard, that a Mormon has argued for someplace in the US, that there are Latin American Bishops with clocks set to Papal time (I know there have been people up to fairly recently arguing for Latin to be the standard language of Europe). Even they'll probably get an article some time on a slow news day...

"One geologist argued that unlike other longitudes, Mecca's was in perfect alignment to magnetic north.

He said the English had imposed GMT on the rest of the world by force when Britain was a big colonial power, and it was about time that changed."

[Tatar Khan]

Yeah the geologist is right about British imposing Greenwich system. But so what everyone is used to right now and personally most don't care. Too costly to switch everything.

By same logic we should switch to Mayan calendars because they are more accurate.

[Dunenewt]

I like that, only the British have been strong enough to tell everyone else what the time is.

[Dante]

Wasn't the first one set to Paris...?

I think that meantime should be set to wherever I happen to be at any one time. I shall deliberately fly around the globe, just to screw with EVERYONE.

[Dunenewt]

Hmmm...the Dante System, I think I'll adopt it straight away...you're not planning on leaving Scotland for a while are you...?

I'm sure at some point they have tried to set to Paris, but as far as I can see on the 'net, the first one was Greenwich.

[Anathema]

The zero point longitude for a time zone scale is completely arbitrary. The only reason GMT (in updated form) is still used is because it's the one traditionally used across the globe. Needless to say I think the proposal is bollox  ::)

[Caid Ivik]

I'm sure at some point they have tried to set to Paris, but as far as I can see on the 'net, the first one was Greenwich.

Napoleon wouldn't have let this, if he won...

[Wolf]

If anyone's ever been to Greenwich, the history of GMT (really, the history of the Prime Meridian) is actually quite fascinating. Apparently, it wasn't even a standard for the British, and the Prime Meridian actually shifted about 10 feet or so every few years, depending on who became the next scientist-in-chief and where his office was. The funnier part is that, for a long time, until well after the Napoleonic wars, the French had their own Prime Meridian centered on Paris. It wasn't until the invention of a sea-going chronometer that GMT became a time-standard... if you think about it, if you are a power before 1900 that likes to use ships (um, everyone) you need such a device to coordinate really effective military strikes. If you know when and where to converge in an attack, you actually don't even need to mass the fleet -- you can disperse them across the globe and as long as everyone has chronometers that work and coordinates of where to be, you can surprise the living hell out of your enemies. Until you have such a device, what you have to is mass your Navy into a fleet, and trot them around the globe en masse. If the enemy knows where your fleet is, then they know what you're going to do. Not so with the aforementioned dispersal-method. In any case, the British were the first to utilize this advantage, and as other nations figured it out, GMT became a natural "standard time" for Navies to work with.

[Edric O]

Well, although it was completely arbitrary to establish the Prime Meridian in Greenwich, there is at least one advantage that I can think of: The opposing meridian on the other side of the Earth goes through the middle of the Pacific, which means that the International Date Line does not cross any major landmass or populated areas. This is useful - it would be very annoying if you had to change the date when crossing between time zones on land.

[Sneakgab]

I was told that the line was purposely shifted for that purpose. As a matter of fact, doesn't it have slight bends towards this purpose?

[Edric O]

Well yes, the Date Line does bend a lot, but it is still more or less along the opposite meridian to the one that goes through Greenwich. If the Prime Meridian went through Mecca there would be no way to put the Date Line in the middle of the Pacific.

[Caid Ivik]

hm, it would be only 2-3 hours change, of landmass perhaps only Alaska would be affected...

[Dunenewt]

Still, why should Alaska have to change, because of a minority (in the World) wish to impose their will on the whole World.

[SandChigger]

I wrote a longish comment for this thread the other day but forgot to click "stay logged on" and when I went to log back in and post it was gone. Gah.

Anyhoo, the appearance of "clerics" in the article is all it took to turn me off. (The idea of "Muslim scientists" is still enough to provoke a chuckle, though.) If the Muslims take over the world (Hello Eurabia? Howdy Amerabia?) and have control of research, we'll still be kneeling on our prayer rugs pointing our rear ends at Mecca (think: great circles and the long way around) when the next asteroid falls. (And it would serve us right, I suppose, for letting a bunch of wingnuts win.)

All of which reminded me of some of the few enjoyable bits in Dan Simmons' execrable <i>Olympos</i>: when he takes the p at Islam (with the Rubicon plague and the nuclear sub <i>Sword of Allah</i> with its doomsday arsenal).

They have their own calendar and chronology (What year AH is it now? Who cares, right?), so let them establish their own "MMT" to replace GMT for use in their own sphere. I have no intention of adopting it. Give them an inch (or the time of day?) too often and dhimmitude is around the corner.

(In real life I'm actually quite mild-mannered and sensitive to cultural differences. ;) )

[Caid Ivik]

Still, why should Alaska have to change, because of a minority (in the World) wish to impose their will on the whole World.

Alaska wouldn't change at all, as well as the whole world would not. It is an expression of resistance towards english ethnocentrism which reflected itself in global tradition...which would change only with time, if the call of Qatari conference will be heared. This 'minority' idea...it seems like GMT standard was defined democratically, while it was just a legacy of organization of the British Empire, as the first one mastering global telecommunication.

And still, where do we use it? For my personal orientation I always use CET standard, so for me GMT means 'CET -1', which I wouldn't change as long as I live in this time-zone. Meccans use their time now as well; perhaps they try to inspire al-Jazeera to do so as well.

[SandChigger]

Ethnocentrism? Try nationalism, maybe?

Of course, if the Muslim world hadn't let religion stiffle intellectual and scientific pursuits several hundred years ago, they might have been the ones to develop the ships and machines of war and conquer an empire upon which the sun never set. And today we'd have disgruntled groups in Europe or America whining about Arab ethnocentrism and blah blah blah. ::)

[Edric O]

Of course, if the Muslim world hadn't let religion stiffle intellectual and scientific pursuits several hundred years ago, they might have been the ones to develop the ships and machines of war and conquer an empire upon which the sun never set.

Um, no. That's not what happened at all. Much of the wealth of the Muslim Middle East up to the 16th century was based on its status as a vital trade link between Europe and Asia. When the Europeans discovered a sea route to Asia that avoided the Middle East, the economic importance of the Muslim world declined, and so did its wealth and scientific development.

Up to World War I the Middle East was ruled by the Ottoman Empire, which was relatively tolerant of religious differences. It was also, however, stagnant and decadent.

[Caid Ivik]

Actually the arab nationalism (which led to promotion of fundamentalist wahhabi movement and its modern perverted forms) began in time when the power of Turkey started to decline, dh in second half of 18th century. A postmodern arab nationalist Qutb says the muslim identity is more based on religion than on nation; but this ideology is limited to the Arab Peninsula, generally based on hanbali form of Islam. As at least hanafite and shafi

[SandChigger]

Um, no. That's not what happened at all. Much of the wealth of the Muslim Middle East up to the 16th century was based on its status as a vital trade link between Europe and Asia. When the Europeans discovered a sea route to Asia that avoided the Middle East, the economic importance of the Muslim world declined, and so did its wealth and scientific development.

Ah, so it was purely economic and political factors, religion and world view having nothing at all to do with it? And it was the bad Europeans wanting cheaper goods and more control over them that caused the decline? OK.

Up to World War I the Middle East was ruled by the Ottoman Empire, which was relatively tolerant of religious differences. It was also, however, stagnant and decadent.

The key word there is "relatively", no?

(Caid Ivik...all very interesting, I'm sure.)

[Dunenewt]

For my personal orientation I always use CET standard, so for me GMT means 'CET -1', which I wouldn't change as long as I live in this time-zone.

I don't know why so many countries use CET, I mean, France, Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg should all be using GMT.

European Timezones

[Caid Ivik]

Well, I don't know where were the original CET borders, as Slovakia seems to be too much in the east for it. It can be seen in late autumn, before the end of summer-time, that sun sets down already around 16., what is quite soon. It must have been an interesting history, which led into present configuration...

[Edric O]

And Spain is clearly too far West for CET... in fact, so is France. I'm guessing Napoleon had something to do with it. But I could be wrong. When were time zones first established?

[alchemi2]

http://www.current-time-online.com/culture/timezone.jsp