Leto of Dune - the fourth 'Heroes of Dune' book

[Khan]

See you've highlighted all the reasons I won't be buying a KJH BH book till someone intelligent has something good to say about it. When they do attend a creative writing night class or some such let me know yeah? I guess being a humble student I'm a bit less willing to splash the cash.

Keep the faith though ;)

[MrFlibble]

a former alcoholic who didn't even read <i>Dune</i> until he was nearly 30

Is this really true, or just an exaggeration? ??? Brian didn't read Dune until he was 30? (it's not that I find that implausible, I'm just asking)

[SandChigger]

Is this really true, or just an exaggeration? ??? Brian didn't read Dune until he was 30? (it's not that I find that implausible, I'm just asking)

Me...exaggerate?!  :O

NEARLY 30. Appears he was about 27 or so.

Brian himself wrote it (we assume) in his <i>Dreamer of Dune</i> bio of his father, for whatever that's worth. Someone posted about it over on Dune Novels the other day.

(Brian and his father didn't get along for a long time. In the book he essentially blames his father's aloofness for his own alcoholism and his younger brother's drug abuse. Evidently they reconciled in FH's last years, but the earlier estrangement serves to fuel the rumors that Brian is currently letting Kevin ruin FH's legacy out of some sort of revenge on his father. Love the goss, but it's probably not true. I think Brian's brain is shot and he doesn't know any different. ;) )

[MrFlibble]

(Brian and his father didn't get along for a long time. In the book he essentially blames his father's aloofness for his own alcoholism and his younger brother's drug abuse. Evidently they reconciled in FH's last years, but the earlier estrangement serves to fuel the rumors that Brian is currently letting Kevin ruin FH's legacy out of some sort of revenge on his father. Love the goss, but it's probably not true. I think Brian's brain is shot and he doesn't know any different. ;) )

Hey, I didn't know anything of that, although some pro-BH&KJA people here often used the "you're accusing Brian of hatred towards his father" and/or "of trying to deliberately ruin his father's legacy" argument as a counter-attack to any observations of inconsistencies and absurdities in the prequel/sequel books.

And this info of yours also gives a different angle to another argument of the BH&KJA defenders: "who else than Brian would be given the right to continue the Dune saga, for nobody can understand Frank Herbert better than his own son" :P

[SandChigger]

<i>Dreamer of Dune</i> has a lot of interesting info in it. (Not a little of which can be found between the lines.) I've had it for well over a year now, maybe two, but have never been able to read it from cover to cover. Obviously not many others have, either.

Brian Herbert did have a bad relationship with his father for many years. He and another "writer" are currently diluting the value of the "Dune" name by "extending" (clarifying? filling in the gaps of?) his father's legacy with more books of far poorer quality. His actions can only be the result of a wish to exact revenge on his father by cheapening his legacy, of pure avarice and disregard for the effects of milking the cash cow, or of a nearly complete misunderstanding of his father's work. (Or maybe he does understand it but has just allowed Kevin to add too much of his own BS, in hopes of monetary gain and getting his own name on the bestseller lists?)

It is a great shame that current law allows survivors to inherit and renew copyrights. And that Frank Herbert misjudged his heirs and did not leave provisions in his will for the proper disposition of his notes and materials.

I mean, think about it: a major part of the "official hagiography" is the fact that Brian let FH's notes moulder for ten years in cardboard boxes in the attic of his garage. He didn't know anything about the outline in the safety deposit boxes (or about the boxes, period). Nobody seems terribly bothered by any of that. Oh well.

(Isn't it odd that all this stuff turns up AFTER Kevin comes on the scene? ;D )

[AeonGrey]

What I don't get is, where are the fans who are demanding all this junk?  I mean, I realize there are probably a small amount of people even on this board who are "ok" with the new books and will read them because they're "Dune", but good lord!  When you take into account the house books...the butlerian jihad books and this new "______ of Dune" crap, that's 10 books!  7 of Which are already out and have been released in a span of 8 years.  I suppose I'm looking at it wrong though...it doesn't matter what "fans" demand it...if they can keep turning them out like RL Stine books and people keep hoovering them up with their money I guess that's all that matters.  Personally, I thought the books were so bad that I stopped after Butlerian Jihad. 

I'll never understand the desire of people to always just have MORE! 

"MORE!!!!  Wait!  What about this thing that is hinted at in this book?  I want to know about this character or about this thing that is mentioned here!  No!  I want a whole series about it! No a series of series!  Split it up into as many 600-page books as you can! More more more!  I want a spinoff of every single part of every single character's life...I want EVERY detail filled in and I don't care if it is written like a crappy Star Wars novel."

:-(  Makes me sad.  I'm aware that it's a tired topic, but why couldn't they have gone the Christopher Tolkien route?

[MrFlibble]

I suppose I'm looking at it wrong though...it doesn't matter what "fans" demand it...if they can keep turning them out like RL Stine books and people keep hoovering them up with their money I guess that's all that matters.

Yeah that's right. They don't care about the fans, since there will always be people who'll buy the new books simply because there are words "Dune" and "Herbert" on the cover.

"MORE!!!!  Wait!  What about this thing that is hinted at in this book?  I want to know about this character or about this thing that is mentioned here!  No!  I want a whole series about it! No a series of series!  Split it up into as many 600-page books as you can! More more more!  I want a spinoff of every single part of every single character's life...I want EVERY detail filled in and I don't care if it is written like a crappy Star Wars novel."

Maybe I'm too idealistic, but I don't think there are really lots of people who want to know everything about every character. True, many people thought the series were incomplete and there had to be something after Chapterhouse. But this - it's rather the writers' strategy to find new "ideas" for more books.

[SandChigger]

Frank Herbert wrote six Dune books.

How many have Pinky and The Birani written now? Let's tally:

3 Houses

3 Legends

2 "Dune 7"s

1 Hero (but <i>Jessica</i> is drafted and will be out next September)

That's nine plus one in the oven. There are two more Heroes planned, so that makes a total of twelve once all the Heroes have been squatted out.

BUT THERE'S MORE!

They're also planning a post-Legends "Great Schools" series about the Guild, BG, Mentats and Swordmasters (how they developed and grew). That could either be three or four books, depending on how they do it. (Remember, the Heroes were originally only supposed to be a trilogy when they started discussing them.)

So that gives us a final grand(?!) total of fifteen or sixteen books, based solely on what they have mentioned wanting to write. REMEMBER THE THREAT FROM THAT ONE INTERVIEW, THOUGH:

Kevin has said that as long as they can find stories to tell, they'll keep writing. (Or doing whatever it is he does that he calls writing.)

[AeonGrey]

I dunno man....I think they're really gonna just keep the books coming.  Pretty soon we'll be reading the "Paul goes to Kindergarten" series of Easy Readers for kids.  I know it's the typical cynical view for a guy like me on this, but I really think these two are going to keep this up until they either can't, or people stop buying them, which they won't.  We should start taking bets to see if we can predict what next piece of junk they'll think up to write.

[SandChigger]

Brian's getting up there, to the age his parents both died at, so there's a bit of hope there, no?

Hopefully the Herberts haven't done anything stupid like adopt Kevin, or make him a full partner in their group. (Their track record in letting him in this far isn't encouraging, however.)

Of course, Kevin could also have tons of dirt on them and could blackmail them into letting him continue to write even after Brian bites the Big One. (Not a reference to Kevin's, by the way, because the rumor is that his is small and twisted, congenitally malformed...oh, no, wait, that was Count Fenring...silly me!) And Kevin is just 46, so he could sh*t out tons of "Dune" books yet.

A truly depressing thought. :'(

[MrFlibble]

When I was reading House Harkonnen (in an awful translation though), it seemed to me that one of the two (or possibly more?!) writers (the difference between story arcs was quite visible) was a bit more talented than the other - it was the guy who wrote about the occupation of Ix by the Tleilaxu and Gurney Halleck's life under Harkonnens. Both stories would have looked better in some alternate WWII context, but anyways. Can anyone tell me who's the better writer of the two?

[SandChigger]

Based on what little I've seen of both of their individual work, I'd have to say

[MrFlibble]

But remember that THAT IS NOT SAYING MUCH!

Of course not. The question was, who's better of the two/how many of them there are really, not who's actually good compared to someone else (not even Frank, but some decent writer) ;) The fact itself the authors couldn't make a relatively homogeneous writing in terms of style says much about their talent.

On a somewhat unrelated note, has anyone here read anything by the Strugatsky brothers?

[Mahdi]

I dunno man....I think they're really gonna just keep the books coming.  Pretty soon we'll be reading the "Paul goes to Kindergarten" series of Easy Readers for kids. 

... you do know they've been talking about a series of junior reader/young adult dune books for years, right?

[SandChigger]

But according to someone going by the monicker "Ashton" over on Dumb Novels who reportedly attended Kevin's signing event in St. Louis,

"He also said when I asked that there were to be no young adult Dune books."

And that makes sense, because that's what they've been giving us for the last decade, <i>A Child's History of the Duniverse</i>. ::)

[MrFlibble]

Writing a good children's book is far, far more difficult and requires some very big talent, in my opinion. On the other hand, Dune (especially in its "new" variant) has lots of stuff that appeals to young audience in all sorts of kid's animated series (like robots and explosions :)), but books and TV are still a bit different, aren't they?

[gunner154]

That's the kind of appeal I wouldn't be proud of.

[SandChigger]

...but books and TV are still a bit different, aren't they?

NOT THE WAY KEVIN WRITES 'EM!

AH HA HA HA HA HA HA! :D

[MrFlibble]

No they're still not. In case of BH and KJA, books appear to be worse...

[SandChigger]

Kevin dictates his books, fancying himself a storyteller in the ancient tradition, like Homer. (There's nothing like getting back to Greek culture...just look at all the references in the books to myths and all. Wink wink, nudge nudge.) He has said so himself on his blawg.

I don't think he has thought that one through sufficiently, though:

Homer's audience was literally illiterate.

Much of Kevin's seems functionally so.

Ironic, isn't it? ;D

[Mahdi]

Lets not forget, Homer was imaginary.  Kevin, unfortunately, is not.

[SandChigger]

No, he's a Nightmare on Elm Street reaching up through the mattress for yer nubbins.

[SandRider]

They'll keep reading them as long as people (obviously in the millions) keep buying them. I doubt millions of people out there keep buying books just because they "hope" for them to be good. If you don't like the first one or two books in a series or by an author' date=' you quit reading unless you're brain damaged. The majority of people like these books. You can keep your six Frank Herbert Dune books on the shelf and ignore everything else.[/quote']

1:  These "millions" of people buying the books are children who are also buying the Star Wars novels,

My Little Pony comics, &etc.  If you doubt that statement, take a quick peek at the "official" Dune forum.

2: I am brain damaged, thank you, from repeated head-stompings by bulls, but I quit reading Keith's

noDune books after half of the first one.  I now allow people such as the SandChigger to read them for

me.

3: The majority of people {who read them} like these books - a debatable statement, with no resolution.

But I'll let you have it - the majority of people who read these books and like them also read and enjoy

the back of the Fruit Loop box.

4:  I do keep my Six on the shelf, and ignore the "content" of Keith's books, but not the intent. His

books are destroying Frank Herbert's Legacy, and there's no way around that.  He's devalued and damn

near destroyed Dune as a concept in American Literature.

Makes me sad.  I'm aware that it's a tired topic' date=' but why couldn't they have gone the Christopher Tolkien route?[/quote']

Tolkien the Younger is an educated man, with a great understanding of not only his father's place in Literature,

but Literature itself.  Keith stumbled thru the University of Wisconsin Madison and somehow got a degree in

physics, which proved totally useless when he choose to become a comic book writer. Frank's son is a dopehead,

recovered or whatever.  Byron Merritt is a self-publishing wank.  These are the people in charge

of Frank's Legacy.  Why didn't they take the Christopher Tolkien route ? Never occured to them.

Pretty soon we'll be reading the "Paul goes to Kindergarten" series of Easy Readers for kids.

Oh you missed that one.  Called Paul of Dune, available used on Amazon for $1.04

[ErasOmnius]

Leto of Dune will be a good book.

[Ampoliros]

Leto of Dune will be a good book.

Why?  We have 10 examples of how badly they understand Dune, how poorly they characterize even the simplest characters, and how often they like to use nonsense plots with holes large enough to herd a sandworm through.