$1 USD, that's like $1 CAD?

[Andrew]

Greater London has a higher population than the whole of Scotland, somehow I think the inner city might struggle a bit if there was a food shortage. Or a petrol shortage. Or indeed a shortage of anything that it requires in order to import supplies.

Yes if things go extremely bad, I would expect large urban centers to be hit hardest. High crime etc. In rural areas, people know each other, and would be more likely to work together.

[chatfsh]

Have you seen this video?  I thought it was interesting.

MTV Martial Law warnings

Must see! This is how it could happen. The End of America

[Egeides]

So these sport skills can easily be converted for the purpose of survival.  On the bright side, an economic collapse would reduce obesity levels in America.

I'm waiting a comment on that one... I'll go: Dante, you're not chubby now are you?

Those who don't make it shall be Helotes! yummy!

Part of the fear is that martial law will be declared and U.S. military troops along with armed UN peacekeepers will be called in to restore peace.

:-X

Where is that coming from?? Could I get some source regarding wealthy and high officials relocating?

These

[Dante]

I am neither overweight nor American, surprise surprise. I'll have you know I'm slightly underweight in fact. :P

Which on the downside means that if we run out of trees I lack the necessary blubber to be well insulated. Thank goodness for blankets and thick wooly socks. Have those in abundance.

Edit: These 'internment camps' wouldn't happen to be based on a certain facility in Cuba, would they?

[chatfsh]

I found this article in Army Times (a mainstream, legitimate source).  It goes into detail explaining why a battalion of soldiers who were previously deployed in Iraq have come home (as of 10/1/08) to serve in their SAME role here on American soil.  This is the FIRST time ever that an active troop has been called upon for a dwell-time mission.  The question that I have is

[Egeides]

I am neither overweight nor American, surprise surprise. I'll have you know I'm slightly underweight in fact. :P

Which on the downside means that if we run out of trees I lack the necessary blubber to be well insulated. Thank goodness for blankets and thick wooly socks. Have those in abundance.

Edit: These 'internment camps' wouldn't happen to be based on a certain facility in Cuba, would they?

Oh I just thought mentioning you instead of someone else was funnier (and acceptable since you're not fat).

Guantanamo? Dunno. I haven't heard that it included to kill prisoners as some normal thing or stuff.

[Andrew]

If we are going to talk about detention centers in the USA and other stuff, then please make a separate thread in political forum. This thread should be left for economic/money issues.

Although I am glad to see people posting :)

[Khan]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7748353.stm

2.5% VAT cut in the UK (Equivalent of Sales Tax or GST in Canada) I can't help but think that

[Andrew]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7748353.stm

2.5% VAT cut in the UK (Equivalent of Sales Tax or GST in Canada) I can't help but think that £2 less in 100 isn't going to make me go out and buy, buy, buy.

OMG everything is now cheaper to buy! Quick go buy stuff using your credit card!

That is just as stupid as the Conservative government cutting GST from 7% to 5%, or the USA government sending out tax rebate cheques so people could buy flatscreen tvs.

I think that is part of the problem with society. People must consume in order for it to work. If people stop spending because *gasp* they might become responsible with money it is a bad thing. The economy stopped because of a credit/debt problem and items being overvalued. The solution is to spend more money and get into more debt. Yeah...

I saw on the news Friday night about black Friday and one person interviewed said they had little money and that black Friday deals were the only time to buy stuff for their kids. If you have to wait for a big sale in order to buy your kids presents, then you shouldn't be buying your kids presents anyway.

EDIT:

Economic rescue could cost $8.5 trillion

EDIT:

Recession in U.S. Started in December 2007, NBER Says

Stock market down 7-8%. Back to where the bottom is. Should be another fun week to see if it can break the bottom.

TSX down 9.5%.

TSX point drop biggest ever

[Sneakgab]

''Quote

The 3rd Infantry Division

[Andrew]

Decline of 70,600 Jobs in Canada

3 times more than expected, and biggest decline in 26 years.

At least gas is cheap  8)

[chatfsh]

Pff, November

[Egeides]

Historically gold does extremely well in times of recession and is therefore still expected to rise. Just how much though, remains to be seen. I choose to keep a close eye on it, but expect to see some volatility over the next few weeks. I choose to keep a close eye on it, but expect to see some volatility over the next few weeks.  A well diversified portfolio is still the best way to go.

I've heard gold/others didn't exactly "jump up" in time of recession, but just did much better than everything that dwindles. So no "get rich" miracle either, and I guess usual daily things (stable job, good friends, FED2k ;D...) count as much as they've always did/more.

[Andrew]

Bank of Canada cut interest rates by 0.75%. Lowest rate in 50 years.

Recession is official in Canada according to Bank of Canada.

[chatfsh]

Gold typically holds its value during times of economic instability, sort of a safe place to park your dollars until things stabilize.  So it

[Andrew]

Treasury Bills Trade at Negative Rates as Haven Demand Surges

You know things are really bad when people buy bonds with discount rate of 0.005 percent. Lowest discount rate ever (since it started in 1929).

[Khan]

I may sound incredibly dense but I just read the Wiki entry for T-Bills trying to work out what they are and for a quick reference guide it's more complicated than trying to read Ulysses (oh aren't I cultured). Would I have it right that you but the bond at a portion of its face value, currently .005% as Andrew pointed out, and then after a certain time they buy it back at face value? It may be sleep deprivation but that's all that makes sense out of the Wiki and yet that makes no sense at all especially if the government are trying to make money.

[Andrew]

I think that is how it works.

You buy a bond at a value less than par, then receive full amount when time is up.

So a $1000 bond at 5% yield, you would initially pay around $952.4, then receive $1000 at maturity.

[chatfsh]

Early to bed, early to rise...

That's about right Andrew, just thought I'd elaborate a little, as I am prone to do.

Finance 101:

Treasury Bonds and/or T-bills are a means for the government to raise capital by borrowing money, which in turn is used to fund projects and programs.

Bonds have a Face Value and Stated Rate based upon what the market will bear at the time of issuance.  However between the time that they are issued and the time that they are sold the market value may have changed so that the bond will either sell for a premium or a discount.

Ex.  You issue bonds with a FV of $10,000 and SR of  6%, at the time of issuance these bonds should attract investors to your bonds.  But markets are such

unpredictable things such that when the bonds are actually sold they may look particularly attractive, drawing lots of investors; therefore, you can sell your

bonds at a premium of $11,000  which causes the effective rate of return to drop to about 5%.  Note that the yield is being squeezed or tightened in this scenario.

However, when the equity market is running strong and investors are willing to risk more for higher returns, your bonds may not look so attractive, so you must sell them at a discount.  In other words, to keep your bonds competitive with equity (stocks), you must price the bond at $9,000 which gives the bond an effective rate of return of about 7%.  Now investors are willing to forego buying stock because they can get the same rate of return on your bonds.  T-bills are only sold at a discount, whereas Treasury bonds can be sold at a discount or premium.

Just keep in mind that regardless of what you sold your bond for, when the bond matures (in 1, 5, 10 etc. years), you must pay the investor the FV of $10,000 and the SR of 6%.  With T-bills, the yield (interest) is implied, in that you must pay out more than you borrowed.  Does that make sense?

Note: The effective yields in the illustration are directionally correct, but the true effective yield may be slightly different, for those of you who bother to crunch the numbers. ;)

[Andrew]

Fed Refuses to Disclose Recipients of $2 Trillion

Sounds like a great plan!

[Dunenewt]

It seems the Pound will be the same value as the Euro soon, which is bad news for me!

[Khan]

And me, holiday in Austria might be fairly expensive now :(

[Dunenewt]

I'm living in Germany next year, which could be quite expensive now!

[Khan]

Is life in germany more expensive generally? (Rent, food, beer, etc.)

[Dunenewt]

Rent should be a lot cheaper, and everything else will be generally slightly cheaper, although the exchange rate might hamper that.