marriage

[erjin999]

Can I be your divorce lawyer ?  :P

Serioulsy, I cant understand why people get divorced so much. Shurely you can see its just lust, in which case there is no point getting married. If it is marriage, then work for it.

Now days it seems as though marriage isnt valued as much buy the majority.

[Dante]

Because it isn't. People are stupid. They see someone, hook up with them for a year or so, and bam! Marriage. A year is not enough time to get to know someone properly, nor is two. And so people get divorced because they had no idea what they were getting in to. Also, it is quite easy to mistake lust for love.

Of course it could be argued that divorce is just more socially acceptable and easier to go through with nowadays, and that it is this that has changed, rather than marriage itself. I think that the two are related. If marriage is no longer binding, it becomes just another word. "This isn't a life-changing decision, we can always get divorced." Furthermore, marriage has roots in religion. No matter how non-religious the couple or the ceremony, it is still a religious ceremony in the vast majority of cases. With the weakening of religion, comes weakening of marriage.

Getting married isn't really something that I have to worry about (unless I find an understanding partner and a very rich woman), but if it were then I'd do it properly, dammit. I'd wait at least four years (preferably five), for a start. And I'd do some serious self-analysis.

Someone I know got engaged a few months ago. She's a nice girl of about twenty. Her husband-to-be is, I estimate, in his late twenties. The guy's a jerk, to be honest. He swears at every oppertunity, growls when he speaks, says the stupidest things, takes offence when she talks to other people, gets angry at the slightest provocation... I don't know what she sees in him. He isn't even attractive. So the question I ask is... why?

[thesnake]

Can I be your divorce lawyer ?  :P

i am not married.....

_ dante i agree with you

[erjin999]

Furthermore, marriage has roots in religion. No matter how non-religious the couple or the ceremony, it is still a religious ceremony in the vast majority of cases. With the weakening of religion, comes weakening of marriage.

Very good point. I didnt expand on why marriage isnt as important now as it seems it was in the past, but you hit it on the head for me.

Getting married isn't really something that I have to worry about (unless I find an understanding partner and a very rich woman), but if it were then I'd do it properly, dammit. I'd wait at least four years (preferably five), for a start. And I'd do some serious self-analysis.

But why then bother to get married ? Presumably anyone who waits 4-5 years is as good as married and I dont see what marriage has to offer you...

Someone I know got engaged a few months ago. She's a nice girl of about twenty. Her husband-to-be is, I estimate, in his late twenties. The guy's a jerk, to be honest. He swears at every oppertunity, growls when he speaks, says the stupidest things, takes offence when she talks to other people, gets angry at the slightest provocation... I don't know what she sees in him. He isn't even attractive. So the question I ask is... why?

Maybe its something she see that you dont  ;) ;)

[thesnake]

Maybe its something she see that you dont  ;) ;)

;D

[Andrew]

Why get married when there is common law?

Only reason to get married is if:

A. you actually beleive in marriage (religion)

B. It is what everyone else does and eventually expects people to do (norm for society, even if they don't believe in the religion). So you can get the last name.

With common law you still get all the tax benefits. All you need to do is live with someone for a year.

[Megashrap]

What? are you sure about that? I don't think you get the same refunds at tax time as just common law

compared to say married filing jointly with 2 kids. Oh damn I love tax time. It's strange but my wife and I are totally different people with opposite likes and dislikes. It will be 10 years in June. Man that should qualify for some kinda cash reward alone.  ;D

[Andrew]

Well, in Canada I believe it is that way.

The 2005 year can be found at General Income Tax and Benefit Package for 2005.

You do have to say whether you are married or whether you are common law. But as far as I can tell, in most places where is says spouse, it also says common-law.

Common-Law must be at least one of the following (and is different than spouse (ie married)):

He or she: 

a) has been living with you in a conjugal relationship for at least 12 continuous months; 

b) is the parent of your child by birth or adoption; or

c) has custody and control of your child (or had custody and control immediately before the child turned 19  years of age) and your child is wholly dependent on that person for support.

[Megashrap]

I usually go to H&R Block for my taxes. And they always want to see the marriage license along with a slew of other documents. I usually get around on average 4k each year.

[Dante]

But why then bother to get married ? Presumably anyone who waits 4-5 years is as good as married and I dont see what marriage has to offer you...

Official status. Commitment. Tax breaks. I don't think what Andrew refers to is applicable here.

Maybe its something she see that you dont  ;) ;)

There is nothing he could possibly hide to justify his behaviour. ...Except perhaps a grossly enlarged bank account.

[gunner154]

Sadness that money can influence marriage decisions. *glances at the pertinent communism threads*

[erjin999]

Official status. Commitment. Tax breaks. I don't think what Andrew refers to is applicable here.

I am not convinced by the official status. Not shure how many people I know who got married beucase of the status.

I find it strange that people might marry for commitment after 4-5 years :)

We do have "common law marriages" or something like that here, I believe.

Tax breaks might be the most likely for me...Or the women pressures the man for some reason known to women.  ;)

[chatfsh]

Maybe its something she see that you dont  ;) ;)

It could be that the guy is just really good in the sack.  A girl could look over a lot of his faults if all cylinders are firing in the bedroom.  Shallow and crass, perhaps, but it's still true.

Females often get a good deal of pressure from guys to marry as well...especially if she's attractive and he wants to officially claim her for himself.

The ancient Romans felt marriage was very important to produce legitimate heirs for the transfer of property.  Even today, I don't think we should have a bunch of illegitimate children running around.  The institution of marriage may be crumbling, but it's still a fundamental building block of human society.

[thesnake]

It could be that the guy is just really good in the sack.  A girl could look over a lot of his faults if all cylinders are firing in the bedroom. 

hahaha now this post is going exactly to the direction i wanted it to go...

[Dante]

Well whee. What a noble goal.

I am not convinced by the official status. Not sure how many people I know who got married beucase of the status.

'Husband and wife' rather than 'people who live together.' Even if they're just words, people like that sort of symbolism.

I find it strange that people might marry for commitment after 4-5 years :)

Then you don't understand what I meant. Four to five years was the testing period. The 'I can still back out of this' period. That's not committed. Whether a couple wants a ceremony to mark their agreement to commitment is up to them, of course. But certainly that's a large part of what marriage is about. Commitment and, in most cases, monogamy.

We do have "common law marriages" or something like that here, I believe.

Tax breaks might be the most likely for me...Or the women pressures the man for some reason known to women.  ;)

Commitment and status would be my guesses. I haven't looked into the legal aspects. Don't really need to.

If a man is excellent in bed then that's no reason to marry him, especially if he has a great many faults besides. Keep him around as a bit of entertainment until someone better comes along, sure, but marriage? Seems a bit drastic.

With modern genetic testing, illegitimacy is hardly an issue anymore. Custody and surnames, those might still be an issue. But if a couple wants to live together without getting married then I see no reason why they shouldn't (although demanding the same legal rights as married couples seems a bit rude, as well as another nail in the coffin of the practice).

[chatfsh]

It was not my intent to steer the topic in a different direction (noble or otherwise), I was merely stating a possibility that may have been overlooked.

I'd love to reply in greater detail...but I've got a freakin' party to go attend.  So I'll have to join later.  Plus, it will give me more time to think about a response...if I'm not too inebriated.  ;)

[thesnake]

its ok to speack in those things when talking about marrige..so mutch better than speaking about them in deffrent places you know what i mean...

beside what good is marrige for then.....

[chatfsh]

With modern genetic testing, illegitimacy is hardly an issue anymore. Custody and surnames, those might still be an issue. 

Illegitimate children are not illegitimate because they don

[Dante]

its ok to speack in those things when talking about marrige..so mutch better than speaking about them in deffrent places you know what i mean...

No, I don't. Your writing is abominable.

beside what good is marrige for then.....

In other words, marriage is only good for sex? Pff.

Illegitimate children are not illegitimate because they don't know who their parents are, it's because they are born out of wedlock - bastards if you will. Genetic tests wouldn't make anyone less a bastard, the bastard would simply know who his parents are. If the law stipulated, or if a will stipulated that property should go to a legal heir, the bastard would be SOL. Would they not? (That's not a rhetorical question, I'm a banker, not a lawyer)

Bastards count as legal heirs, so long as there is no doubt of their parentage. They do, however, get lowest priority as far as I am aware.

Knowing who your parents are isn't really a factor, it's having no doubt about the child's parentage that is important. A child born to a married couple is assumed to be the product of their union. But a child born out of wedlock, well you never know. That's the reasoning behind it. Which seems a bit stupid to me since it is perfectly possible for a couple to have a child together without being married; and adultary is practically a hobby to some people. It's true that genetic tests have no impact on whether a child is a bastard or not, but they do confirm the parentage (sometimes....) and thus bestow a degree of legitimacy upon the child.

There is something noble about a child being born to a married couple versus some woman who's shacking up with some guy. Would you not agree?

Hence my above point about status, though I would call it more respectable than noble.

Through the union of marriage a father legally claims the offspring born by his wife and bestows upon them his name. A trickier feat when children are born out of wedlock.

Not always. It's a growing trend for women to keep their own surname and pass it on to thir children as well. Makes more sense really, since there's more often doubt regarding the father's influence than the mother's. In any case, trickier it may be but not impossible.

On the topic of marriage and  the increase in divorce, I think it may have less to do with religious views regarding marriage but rather a woman's increased economic power and the advent of the birth control pill. Permit me to elaborate. I believe that the same conditions and feelings toward marriage has existed for some time. The real difference is that now women have more education and economic power. For example, take a woman who's a VP at a bank and earns a six figure salary - how much crap do you think she will endure from her husband knowing she has the freedom to walk and be financially sound? Emotionally there may still be turmoil but beyond that, she needn't feel trapped with him for any other reason.

Men are capable of calling for divorce as well. Granted that the newfound power of the female will have had some impact, but certainly not the only one.

Perhaps the greater question should be, are people really meant to stay together until they die? Is there such a thing as true love that's meant to last forever? Personally, I'd advocate serial monogamy. What do I mean by that? As long as you're in a relationship, you should faithfully maintain your fidelity to your mate. Enjoy the relationship for as long as you are both are willing to work at it. But understand that it likely will not last forever.

Seems sensible. Not very romantic, but sensible. Personally I think that life's too short for that. And that the chances of finding someone special are so microscopic that if you are actually fortunate enough to find such a person then you should latch your claws into their very soul and hang on with a vice-like deathgrip. Ahem. Whether there is such a thing as 'true' love, I remain to be convinced. But then, I still have a lot to learn.

[thesnake]

No, I don't. Your writing is abominable

yes you do

In other words, marriage is only good for sex? Pff.

no i mean marrige is good for sex

note: the color of your text makes my eyes hurt....(anyone eals have this problem)?

[chatfsh]

Men are capable of calling for divorce as well. Granted that the newfound power of the female will have had some impact, but certainly not the only one.

I conjecture that the primary cause to the rise in the divorce rate has more to do with the change in women

[thesnake]

maybe its time i visit the doctor  :O

[alchemi2]

Well I've been married 23+ years.

I love my wife as much now as i did back when we 1st met 25 yrs ago.

Life's had it's ups and downs. Its good and bad but we've stuck together and worked through our troubles together.

Always open and honest with each other about everything and we are fiercely loyal and faithful to each other.

To me our marriage was not done for religious reasons, we got married in a register office rather than a church.

It was a public declaration of our love for each other, it declared our commitment to each other for the rest of our lives and it declared our intention to remain faithful to each other.

Unfortunately in todays quick fix, lack of responsibility society, people split up/ divorce at the drop of a hat rather than working together to get through rough times, which generally make relationships stronger.

IMO just living together shows a reluctance to make that final commitment to each other, that is (or rather should be) marriage.

[chatfsh]

Congratulations to you and your wife! :)  You're obviously part of the lucky ones who actually find that special someone.

My latest epiphany on relationships -- Hope for the best...but plan for the worst.

[thesnake]

yes. this is the good part about it...when every thing gose well...any way as i said to us (older peapol) i guess every thing was eazyer back then... but sadly i missed lots of good chances to get

engaged (i was a playeboy) i allwayes found it more amuzing to trick girls and try the back door...

and if i wasnt lucky i would go  look for younger girls.....i still do this till this time  :-[