Physical attributes of humans

[Ellinas]

In the few Dune stuff I have read, I noticed that negroes are not mentioned. Just wondering, are they any negroes mentioned in the Dune universe?

[nemafakei]

There are few 'white' people mentioned (e.g. Duke Leto is recorded to have olive skin). I suspect that most characters could be of any description.

[Ellinas]

There are few 'white' people mentioned (e.g. Duke Leto is recorded to have olive skin). I suspect that most characters could be of any description.

Negroes are not the ones who have dark/tanned skin. If it was like that the only "Whites" would be the Germanics and the Slavs. Negroes are the ones who belong to the Negroid race.

[Andrew]

If by negroid race you mean African American (or someone decended from Africa), then I don't remember there being any, but its been a while since I read the books.

[Caid Ivik]

Negroes don't live only in Africa or America, they inhabit half of the world, while today already they are of a significant number. As my brother says, have you ever imagined a white sardaukar? ;D

[Mihail]

As my brother says, have you ever imagined a white sardaukar? ;D

Yes. :P

[erjin999]

Too busy imagining Shaddams friends wife :P Sister of the bene gesserit

[MrFlibble]

It's year ten thousand something, many things have changed. Most certainly, the racial differences of today have been nullified and new ones ahve emerged instead. Say, different types of human living on different planets. The Fremen or Tleilaxu can be viewed as races, I suppose.

[nemafakei]

My point was that Leto is one of a very few you can assume are not black. Most characters could be of any ethnicity. If you're imagining them as one or another, that's your own problem.

[MrFlibble]

I don't know how it is with others, but for me the capital letters in the characters' names seem to somehow influence the way I imagine them. I cannot tell it more precisely, but this is so. :D never thought about skin color though

[Ellinas]

If by negroid race you mean African American (or someone decended from Africa), then I don't remember there being any, but its been a while since I read the books.

A Negroid is simply one who belongs to the Negroid race. If someone descends from Africa this doesn't means he is Negroid, because the Northern Africans are Caucasoids. The skin colour doesn't matter, because you can find black Caucasoids or Mongoloids too. What seperates the three humans races from each others (Caucasoids, Mongoloids, Negroids) is the face shape, the bones size, big dna differences and many other things.

It looks like the main characters/houses of Dune are Caucasoids, but Mongoloids are also mentioned in the Dune books I' ve read. I was just curious what happened to the Negroids... If my question is so complicated I am sorry, I can take it back  :).

And MrFlibble 10000 years biologically are too few for physical genetical change.

[erjin999]

Yes. Please take it back.

[MrFlibble]

And MrFlibble 10000 years biologically are too few for physical genetical change.

I thought you were talking about appearance, not the genetic features by which races are differentiated. But I'm sure the appearance of people could change from what is common now.

[Andrew]

Appearence would definitely change.

Wasn't the average hieght of a human back in the 1200 or so less than the average height now?

[MrFlibble]

When I watch old movies (30-60 years old), I always get a feeling that people there have some elusive differences in what they look like compared to people of nowadays. On the other hand, some sculptural portraits of ancient Romans may look very familiar :)

[Ellinas]

Yes. Please take it back.

OK, I am taking it, it looks like you are not ethnography is not something some of you ever heard of.

The moderator can close this thread, because I am afraid of being called a racist ;D.

[Andrew]

Nah, you brought up a good point about human physical attributes and whether they beared any resemblance to what we know of in todays society.

The only thing I didn't like about this thread was the word negros. So I think I will change it so something more fitting.

[Mahdi]

1)  Despite what they said in the Jeopardy computer game, Dune takes place 25 000 years in the future, not 10 000.

2)  Cacausoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid no longer exist.  Not because they are inherently racist or anything like that (although I'm sure an arguement could be made considering the origins of the terms), but because they are, well, wrong.  Vastly innaccurate and useless.  They haven't been used in a very long time, which is why some people seem to have difficulty understanding what is being asked.

[Davidu]

Some particular traits could have resisted so far... but today's "clasification" of "races" would be obsolete.

We're talking about the "planetary" humans, not the Guild Navigators, right? They don't even look human anymore. Or the Tleilaxu. Or the abomonations that returned with the Honorated Matres.

[MrFlibble]

We're talking about the "planetary" humans, not the Guild Navigators, right? They don't even look human anymore. Or the Tleilaxu. Or the abomonations that returned with the Honorated Matres.

When mentioning the Tleilaxu, I certainly meant their Masters, who are for most parts humans anyway (only revived/cloned as gholas), not their cerations like Face Dancers or Futars that results of genetic experiments and are thus artificial beings.

The Navigators are likely a minor "spin-off" of a Human race, as they develop naturally, only in special conditions. The difference the Navigators and the Tleilaxu experiments is that the alterations that happen to a Steersman are not the chief aim of their existence, I guess.

[Kalas]

The Atreides are Greek. 'Nuff said. The Harkonnens are supposedly Greek/Turkish with some Mameluke blood. (can't remember where that was.) The Corrinos are Caucasian and you can bet the Fremen are Arabian-ish. The others I leave to your imagination, but I', really sure Duncan is Caucasian.

Bam, my big book of canon, right in your face.

[Tezcatlipoca]

The Harkonnens are supposedly Greek/Turkish with some Mameluke blood.

If you could find that quote, that would be cool. Because otherwise their name suggests Finnish as I believe has been brought up before.

The Corrinos are Caucasian and you can bet the Fremen are Arabian-ish.

Corrino and Fremen come from the same stock at least partially, if you assume that the Corrino are comprised mostly of Salus Secundus...ionians... Salus *Secundus* being the second stopping point in the Wandering Zensunni's migration, Arrakis being the last.

That said, we can expect that any imperial house (Atreides included, as referenced by the BG's free form mingling) inter-breeds with eachother, much like aristocratic families have done in our past for generations. So as far as any minor differences in genetics between humans go, all the House members are probably in a class of their own.

Bam, my big book of canon, right in your face.

Better get that book rechecked ;)

[Kalas]

As to the Harkonnens being whatever they are, I said I wasn't sure... ::)

I agree with you that they've probably all interbred to a point where it doesn't matter, and the Corrinos were already ruling from SS when the Zensunnis arrived there, as per the time line, and I doubt the Imperial family will have bred with Zensunni vagrants.

[MrFlibble]

Mobility of the populace is important here. While noblemen and Imperial servants could travel quite frequently and, consequently, there was a probability of finding a partner virtually anywhere (plus there's BG breeding program factor, as mentioned above). However, most planetary natives would probably live their entire life on the same planet and possibly in one particular area. This would lead to some specific traits developing in the native planetary communities, which could also reflect environmental conditions of a particular planet or region.

[Kalas]

Got the Harkonnens:

Heretics of Dune, pg 124:

"Underlying all of this was what the Harkonnens had left behind--genetic lines tracing far back into the dawn times of Greek and Pathan and Mameluke..."

Bam, book of canon rechecked.