Warcraft universe discussion

[MrFlibble]

Since there are quite a few Warcraft and other Blizzard game fans around, I'd like to start a thread where we could discuss the Warcraft universe. I emphasize that I'd like to talk about storylines, plot details and characters of Warcraft 1, 2 and 3, as well as (probably) World of, but not about gameplay, strategies etc. etc. So everyone who's up to join, you're welcome ;D

NOTE: Some info mentioned below one may consider as spoilers, so read at your own risk.

First question of mine: Night Elf Frozen Throne campaign, the mission where Maiev explores the Tomb of Sargeras. In the flashbacks we see Gul'dan in the Tomb, accompanied by a group of Orcish Shamen. Question: why Shamen? It was mentioned in several places that most Shamen were suppressed and replaced by Warlocks, right?

Awaiting your opinions, and more questions/topics to discuss, guys! ;) The words must flow...

[Khan]

Yeah to fit in with the story they should have been warlocks, that one knida confused me. Good idea for a topic though, love the warcraft universe ;D.

[gunner154]

I didn't notice the Shamen, but yeah they should have been warlocks. I know it's witnessed in the The Frozen Throne campaign, but which part of the series did it take place in? WC1 or WC2? Warlocks appeared in WC1 but not WC2. In WC2 the orcs only had Death Knight and Ogre-Magi for spellcasters.

[Terror]

Well, warlocks were hunted and killed during the prelude of the tides of darkness, hence they are gone. Except for Gul'Dan who talked  himself out of it. I suppose his followers might've been shamen.

[Dragoon Knight]

Basically, after Medivh opened the Dark Portal at the Black Morass, he gave the Orcs unlimited access to their forces on Draenor (which, at that time, consisted of mostly Warlocks).  Lead by the Warlock Gul'dan (who controlled the puppet Warchief Blackhand), they laid siege to the Southern Kingdom of Stormwind, though Lothar and Khadgar managed to travel to Medivh's tower fortress of Kharazan and kill him.  This ultimately destroyed Sargeras, who had possessed Medivh while he was still an unborn child in his mother Aegwynn's womb, but allowed Medivh's pure spirit to wander the astral plane.

As a result of the death of the fallen Titan, one of the greatest Orcish Chieftains - Orgrim Doomhammer - began to see the corruption that had spread through his people.  The exiled Durotan Frostwolf returned to remind Doomhammer of Gul'dan's corruption, which brought about the swift assassination of the leader of the Frostwolf Clan.  Only Durotan's infant son, Thrall, survived; taken by the human officer, Aedelas Blackmoore, to be raised as a slave.  In revenge for Frostwolf's death, Doomhammer killed Blackhand, and took control of the Horde.  Rallying them under his might, they finally laid waste to Stormwind Keep, killing King Llane.  Lothar and Khadgar returned too late to help the fallen kingdom, and went into hiding.

Doomhammer continued his campaign against the humans; Lothar and Khadgar quickly assembled the leaders of the Seven Kingdoms in Lordaeron, who united under the banner of the Alliance.  Doomhammer enlisted the aid of Ogres from Draenor, and the scattered Amani Troll tribes.  Laying siege to the kingdom of Khaz Modan, victory looked certain, until Gul'dan lead his band of Orcs to the Tomb of Sargeras - the underwater tomb that Aegwynn had sealed Sargeras' body in years ago.  Gul'dan raised the tomb, but found only crazed demons inside.  Most of his warlocks were killed, overwhelmed by demons even they could not control.  However, the small amount of shamanistic Orcs that accompanied Gul'dan were able to drive back the demons, communing not with the dark energies, but with the elements themselves.  Foolishly, Gul'dan moved into the tomb, eventually dying at the hands of the very demons he sought to control.

Meanwhile, Doomhammer, having lost half of his forces, was forced to retreat from a final attack on the capital city of Lordaeron.  Enraged by Gul'dan's betrayal, he ordered even more forces to seek him out, kill him, and bring back those that accompanied him.  This gave the Alliance time to regroup and plan their attack.  Lead by Lothar, Khadgar and the Elven Lieutenant Turalyon, they drove the Orcish forces out of Stormwind, back past Blackrock Spire (where Lothar fell in battle), and into the Swamp of Sorrows.  Retreating all the way, the Orcs were finally defeated, and the Dark Portal destroyed.  The remnants of the Orcish race were rounded up into internment camps, with only a few escaping.  The stronghold of Nethergarde Keep was erected to watch over the ruins of the Dark Portal, to ensure that Draenor would not invade again.

[Davidu]

Hmmm... warning, fairytales can be addictive.  ;D LOL don't kill me. The fact is that I enjoyed the WarCraft and StarCraft universes quite a lot.

About WarCraft3, well... I always tried to create a RPG game out of it  ;D

[MrFlibble]

I've come up with a small tquestion of more technical nature. I've got Warcraft 3 plus The Frozen Throne patched up to 1.15 (yeah I know it's quite an old version), and there's a confusing thing with expansion models of Murlocs: most of Murloc units have parts of their shields untexturized, so the black areas are clearly visible. Looks like the models have some extra pieces that don't fit into the skin pattern that remained the same as with the old models... Have they fixed this up in version 1.20 or earlier? I'm quite reluctant to download the patch as it is about 60 megs, and that many is too restraining for my dial-up connection... :(

Continuing the discussion of Gul'dan, there's a controversial point as, in Warcraft 2, as you play the Orcs (mission 12, Tides of Darkness), you actually have to kill Gul'dan, and the demons around the Tomb are his allies, as it seems. But the cutscene before the mission obviously shows something like the stury. At least, it is implied that the guy who opens the Tomb is killed by a demon.

[The Spac]

Umm doesn't that patch add in the rest of the Orcish single player campaign? If you like warcraft then maybe it would be a good idea to download it. Leave it going when your at work or something, and also the patch seems to resume for me when it gets like half way and my net disconnects. So it should be do able.

[MrFlibble]

1.15 already adds the Orc chapters 2 and three, as well as the Goblin Tinker hero. I've got 1.15, so everything's okay :) I was asking about later versions.

[Dragoon Knight]

I don't see this problem when I play a random skirmish map with those blasted Murlocs, so I guess they fixed it, yeah. :)

[Nuvollari]

Hii..I m a huge fan of WarCraft games :D..U can count me in :D (I got all the wc games)  ::)

[MrFlibble]

Who knows why hasn't anyone discover the Night Elves before the events in Warcraft III? The humans seem to have had quite a strong navy (Kul Tiras alone is more than enough), so I don't believe no one had ever landed on the shores of Kalimdor ???

[The Spac]

The Maelstrom or rather fear of it. Plus I rekon the high elves would have said oh don't bother doing there you won't find anything useful, just a bunch of grazing cows and some elves that hate magic.

[MrFlibble]

Sounds about right.

BTW, I tried to find the "saga of Azeroth" campaign site and couldn't :( Can anyone help with the link?

[MrFlibble]

Hey, I know the thread's quite old, but IMHO the whole topic shouldn't just drift into oblivion...

Anyway, I've come up with two questions:

1. Was Illidan actually killed by Arthas in the end of the TFT Undead campaign, or merely heavily beaten and wounded?

2. Regarding the canon storyline, did the Alliance expedition into Draenor led by Khadgar (WC2 Expansion campaign) return to Azeroth, or did they get stuck there?

[Khan]

1. Nope was simply defeated in battle, I'm guessing heavily wounded but still alive in hiding in outland.

2. Again nope Khadgar's expedition was stranded on draenor (outland)

[Nuvollari]

Anywayz who wants to play some WoW on USA realms Stormrage?

[Khan]

Sorry mate on the Europe servers so no can do.

[MrFlibble]

A little bit offtopic:

I wonder if anyone of you has heard of/played a game called Horde: The Northern Wind. This Russian-made RTS is heavily influenced by Warcraft and Warcraft 2 (hence being dubbed "Russian Warcraft"), but also has quite a few innovative elements. I remember spending a lot of time playing it back in 1999 ;D ::) The game has a very nice nostalgic Warcraft-ish look :) Its addon/sequel, Horde: The Citadel, was much more clumsy and infested with bugs, however.

[piterdevries]

about TFT ending: wikipedia.com states that after what arthas did to the frozen throne, he became the most powerful being in the universe..was that his real purpose thats why he went to the FT?

[MrFlibble]

I think this outcome became inevitable from the point when he picked up the Frostmourne and thus bound himself to the Lich King.

[Nuvollari]

By going to FT he let the freedom to the lich guy..or something like that

[Khan]

They became the same person, two wills one body.

[MrFlibble]

Darth Vader + Emperor Palpatine LOL

I looked up the WoW Wiki, and was abashed by the abundance of "good guys turned evil" in the new retconned Warcraft lore :O

Sargeras was a good guy but turned evil,

Eredar were good guys but turned evil,

Draenei were good guys but turned evil,

Orcs -- || -- || -- || -- || -- || -- (but they turned back),

Blood elves -- || -- || -- || -- || -- || --,

Naga -- || -- || -- || -- || -- || --,

Arthas was a good guy but turned evil,

Sylvanus -- || -- || -- || -- || -- || --,

Illidan -- || -- || -- || -- || -- || --,

Admiral Proudmoore -- || -- || -- || -- || -- || --,

Medivh -- || -- || -- || -- || -- || -- (but he turned back),

etc. etc. ...

This cliche is far too persistent, don't you think? If it continues the same way, the game series will lose all of its originality (IMHO it's starting to already :().

[Khan]

A lot of those look at the story in a far too shallow manner. Medivh was insane as he was semi possessed by sargeras, the blood elves aren't evil they just turned against the alliance because of the racism againt them, the draenei and the eredar are technically the same race the eredar being those that were corrupted by sargeras, the draenei are in no way evil. The naga were never good they were the ones that caused the constant invasions from the Burning legion. Sylvanas was undead but broke free of the lich kings will and now works to create a kingdom for the rest of the undead that broke free from the lich king. Proudmoore wasn't eveil either just misguided, he had fought against the orcs for so long it was impossible for him to see them as anything other than savages.