Is Dune 2000 really a remake of Dune 2?

[sniper]

Before I go on with this, I wanted to say Dune 2000 is still amazing game, but Dune 2 is still better.

When I first got Dune 2000 that early September of 1998, I was excited. I was looking forward to this game for months, and really wanted to play. When I loaded it up, to my surprise, it was a great game. Excellent balance within the units might I add. But it is at all not like Dune 2.

Dune 200 may have some similarities. Same Units, sort of same terrain, and same story line. Well a bit different of a story line. For one thing, the mentants are TOTALLY different. In Dune 2, you had the Harkonnen mentat being some old crazy bald guy, Ordos being a guy with realy green eyes who did not want to be bothered, and the Atreides had a blond hair fabio type guy.

As for the units, in Dune 2k they were pretty good. I mean, even if some units did not do the things that they did in Dune 2. Examples: Quad was an upgrade to the trike, and it had machine guns. Devastator blew up after it got destroyed. Fremen were not controllable. Neither was Sabatoeur. Troopers did not have bazzokas (though I rather they have bazzokas). Troopers came out of WOR. Missle Tanks were very unaccurate. I can go on and on about this.

But the thing that did not live up to Dune 2k was the feeling of playing it. It was not at all like Dune 2. And hey, I admit, its hard to make a RTS game now feel like the first RTS game ever. That was what made Dune 2 so special. To be specific, for one thing, in Dune 2, Arrakis actually had sun shining and the sky was blue with clouds (look at the intro and unit graphics). But in Dune 2k, the sky was an ugly brown and dull.

I just wanted to clarify to many that Dune 2000 is not a real remake of Dune 2. Many changes were done. Oh ya, also structures were re-made in Dune 2k.

This is to the next Dune game. Make it REVOLUTIONARY!!!! Don't make it like all Westwood RTS games.

Deploy MCV, build Barracks, mine resources, build 1000 tanks, attack. The end.

I want more tactics, and less resource and base management! I want the next game to be MACROMANAGEMENT, not Micro! Example, only having 10 tanks and 40 infantry, and each being important and working with each individually!! Not 1000 tanks and 3 infantry and rush!

By the way, theres a new game called Soldier. After looking at the screens for that game, which are amazing, I thought, hey, the next Dune game would look AMAZING like this. Go check it out at

http://www.well-rounded.com/games/graphics/galleryplate.php3?image=soldier&game=Soldier&count=25

[Mahdi]

Well, that is why some people where suggesting that maybe the new Dune game should be an RPS (Role Playing Strategy) like the new Warcraft game, and not just the same old strategy game. Personally, I do not really see any other way to make the next Dune game mutch different than any other Strategy game unless they do it that way, becuase a strategy game is just a strategy game, no real difference except in the units, graphics and storyline. When you get down to it it is just build a big army and attack. Strategy games are just 80% building and 20% tactics, while RPS is supposed to be the opposite. I saw supposed to be because Warcraft 3 isn't out yet and know one really knows, because you can't really trust Blizzard about stuff like this. There job is to sell games.

[sniper]

Ya, you can say that. But you can also make a RTS that does not involve many units. It is hard to think of a RTS game that has this, but I know a war game that does. All the Close Combat series do. Of course there you have many men too, but they are grouped in squads and they are controlled as one. Hey, didn't Dune 2 have squads of Infantry?! Well, theres another thing Dune2k lacks.

Fact is, you should look at the title of the genre. Real Time STRATEGY. To me, Strategy is not building an army, and rushing an enemy. It is comanding your units in an orderly manner, sneak attacks, formations, mode of firing, speed, etc. etc. Saying that, it might be a bit complicated. But when you have a small number of units, it would be easy.

[Edric O]

Here's why Dune 2 was so different: you had a maximum number of units. You couldn't build more than that. I think that's what you want in the next Dune game. As for me, I don't know...

[sniper]

I do remember Dune 2 having a unit limit. But, I don't really want that because then people will complain a lot about it. I would rather just have it as a macromanegement type game that is 80 % strategy/tactics and 20 % resource/base management.

But lets talk about the topic instead!

[Mahdi]

Westwood said it was a remake. I have only ever played dune 2 once before, so I don't know much about the simularitys or differences.

[Gobalopper]

Well I think the unit limit had more to do with memory requirements. They set it at a point they knew it wouldn't cause problems for most computers is my guess.

The one thing in Dune2k I missed was the changing of the music when there was a wormsign, and even though the Dune II music is really old it still fits the game well.

About the remake issue, I think they called it that since it really isn't a sequel or prequel in that the story line is still relatively the same. Sure the units are different but they probably felt they had to make a few changes to the game.

What I would really like to see is Westwood open the source to Dune II and let someone try to make it multiplayer with maybe a little higher resolution and some newer features, I think a lot of people would be interested in that.

[sniper]

About the music: that was called contact sound. It is in some game available now, a new one. I foget which one though. Dune music was AMAZING, and its also good in Dune2k. Homeworld also has good music. BTW- speaking of Homeworld, anyone play that game? Its amazing! I would like to see the nest Dune like that, only on Arrakis. Same 3D style and controls.

[mechadragon]

the one reason that I prefer Dune 2000... (not the only one, but the main one) You can control up to 50 units at one time!!! StarCraft was 12, it annoys me like that! But Dune2k is 50!!! you can actully send an army and not just a trooper!

Am I the only one that actually liked Dune2k?

[Edric O]

Dragon, you are not alone! I prefer Dune 2k over Dune 2 as well. It's true, Dune 2 was much better in it's own time. But I just can't bring myself to play an 8-year-old game.

And now to reply to Sniper: yes, I have HW. I played it and finished the campaign. I have to admit it the best single player campaign I've ever seen. Too bad the multiplayer sucks.

[kunekune]

D2K rocks!!!!!!!!!

[sniper]

HW is amazing. Music, Graphics, and Gameplay all live up to what an amazing game is. And thats how the next Dune game should be like. Imagine Arrakis and the Dune Universe all in Total 3D like HW!

[Mahdi]

Of all the strategy games out there, I like dune2k best becuase, like vecha said, you can control more people in it. It is more about game play and not graphics like warcraft and star craft. Don't get me wrong, dune2k does have good graphics, but not as good as warcraft 2 and warcraft 2 is 3? years older than it.

[hellsmaw]

two things

please note that (V)echa is "mecha," not "vecha"

I think that something like Battlezone II would be great. With the first person and strategy combined. to be honest, i think that is the way to go because it gives the players the most flexibility possible (why dont they sell this in stores?!?!?!?!)

[nemessith]

We had a very long discussion, with my friend, about can you beat the original. We even made mathematical and geometric model. I think the conclusion was that nothing can actually be better than the first one was, because there were nothing before the first one(now, this doesn't really have much to do with this subject)

I think Dune2000 is a remake of Dune2, despite of all differences. You pointed out many things I missed, like the color of the sky. In any case, WW's goal was to "make Dune2 again" with new graphics and enchanced music. And that's what they did.

I think Dune2 has great musical score. And so do Dune2000, at least there are few legendary musical experiences to be heard. Never the less the title of best musical score belongs to TA. You're free to disagree if you have really played it. Needless to say it's a great game.

Dune2k is very different one, so they won't end up stepping on each others toes. Both have their own unique perspective.

[sniper]

Ya the sky thing was a big thing WW screwed up on! But Dune2k was still a great game, just not orignal at all. The next dune game should be revleutionary just like Dune 2 was.

[killarrodent]

what i really think is you should stop being such a critic and just appreciate dune2000 for the game that it is and stop comparing it to its predecessors dune2k is a remake and remakes are always better than the originals cause they improve the game using the responses they have gathered from the public an example of such is the when tiberian sun first came out there was lots of engineer rushing cause it only required one engineer to capture and due to public complaints and stuff it was changed so there was a multi-engineer option. Hence if dune2k is a remake then i think it is better than the other dune games. I say you should just forget some of those older dune games i mean come on how old are they? old as stop living in the past and move on to the future. I am not meaning this as an offensive remark against any single person im just stating my opinion thanks :)

[killarrodent]

oh and one other thing about games not being original Sniper Dune2 was really an original idea cause it was based on the books and movies that were orignally created so it wasnt an original idea however dune2 was one of its first kind in the strategy game for its game play and stuff. But if you were a programmer instead of a consumer you might realise that it can take time and effort and money also to come up with new game engines and ideas. Why don't you go to one of the game creation companies and ask if you can do some work experience or maybe do a course to train you in programming :)

[fremen59]

the only real thing i missed in dune2k was the inaccuracy of the missile tanks. It's more realistic in dune 2. you're missile's were affected by the wind and weren't always accurate...just like real life.

[killarrodent]

I agree with you there are many things that they cut out of the remakes of games but usually its because most people did not like these features. If you dont like things in Dune maybe we need to get a large group of users together and start writing stuff ot westwood urging them to make a new version of the game to add these missed features back in i mean they can easily alter the current Dune game by simple releasing a new update. Maybe we should start emailing them? or something

[montego]

Well, with the appeal of Dune 2000 being what it really is - A distant second to the C&C/TS series, I don't see Westwood creating a new engine for this game, much less a new format... I see them using a modified TS engine, enhanced terrain, waypoints, etc...

The fact is though that I don't care - I'll still buy it, and prolly play it as much as Dune 2k...

[nemessith]

Being able to almost succesfully make the Dune2 work, still some problems with the music...

I noticed that I liked the sound effects of Dune2 much more than those in Dune2k. For example the machine gun of trike/quad seem more realistic in original game. Generally the sound effects might be better in Dune2k, but there are few sound I'd like to change.

The annoying thing is that WW uses these same, just a bit altered sound effects over and over again. They don't develop sounds any further, they just stick with the old which is bad.

And I definitely agree that missile tank, or in fact 'Launcher' in Dune2 is far more realistic than one in Dune2k. I also think that trikes are under powered when facing infantry in Dune2k, they should've been better.

[montego]

Well, some of these settings can be modified via Dune Edit '98 (accuracy, etc.) ...

BTW, the cource code for that has been released, for those Delphi programmers with an itch :) ...

[sniper]

Well I really liked the missle inacuracy in Dune 2 also. But when it comes to making a new Dune game, WW should REALLY throw away its old engine.

Think about it. Blizzard always has a new engine, and there games (even if you hate them) are always hot sellers and popular. Thats because there games are always different. And WW, has used the SAME engine (or might I add style of engine) for all its current RTS games. That includes Dune2k, Red Alert 1 and 2, Command And Conquer 1 and 2. Now, Tiberian Sun did have a different engine (and so will Red Alert 2, the same engine), but its the same style. With unti bar on the right, click a unit, click to move, yadayadayada.

WW needs to make a totally new RTS game for its own sake. I think that Red Alert will not be that good just for the reason people are BORED of that style of play. But it will still sell lots because of its name :)

[killarrodent]

hey Sniper if you like Blizzard games so much nobody is stopping you from buying them and playing more of those :)