Present-day democracies not quite so democratic?

[Edric O]

Technically speaking, the vast majority of the world's population lives in countries governed by (capitalist) representative democracy. On paper, there is more democracy in the world today than ever before. But according to a recent Gallup International poll, 65% of the world's population do not believe their countries are run according to the people's will:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4247158.stm

In fact, "Only in Scandinavia and South Africa do the majority believe that they are ruled according to their wishes."

See the full results of the poll here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/world_who_runs_your_world0/html/1.stm

This raises an interesting question: Just how democratic are most of the world's "democracies"?

[The_Sadukar]

Jarr for Scandiavia ;)

[Dude_Doc]

I must say that where I live, in Sweden, democracy is working in a way. I don't think that people really think much about democracy as a system - many do, however, think that if a society is free enough, it really doesn't matter who's in control (and this could lead to both good and bad things).

But do I believe that the world is "democratic" enough? No - my answer is similar to Edric's: it is much better today - but it is not enough, mainly because private enterprise has so much power that it can reach globally - to the extent where (for example) all Bolivia's water was once owned completely by a corporation (even the rain).

[Caid Ivik]

I don't know how these statistics want to help "democratization" of countries. System of representative democracy is practical middle between personal will of each individual and will based on politically definable objective reason. Better and incomplete but natural democracy, then a wild and theatral will of all like it was after (and in most countries also before) the war.

[Mahdi]

Sigh, I long for the non-existant days of a benevolent despot.

Namely, me.

Without the benevolance.

It just gets in the way.

[nemafakei]

Democracy is the product of transparent governance and extent of government responsibility.

Where there is no government, the demos is kept from the cratia.

Where there is no transparancy, cratia is kept from the demos.

[Reactor]

May I quote from my favourite band,the Heavy Troopers?

"Cops and politicians

tell us what to do,

[...]

using a religion,

increasing the terror,

this is much more than a human error"

"Money and business

are counting our lives."

Let's just hope the world won't become "City 17"...

[Dude_Doc]

Let's just hope the world won't become "City 17"...

*cough* Freedom Tower *cough*...

[Reactor]

We don't want a Dr.Breen!  :P

[Dude_Doc]

We don't want a Dr.Breen!

*cough* Dr. W. Busheen *cough*  ;D 

[gunner154]

Well..... the main political party in Singapore... 'Nuff said. It's the MAIN political party. Opposition parties have little say - the number of seats they have in parliament is negligible - you can count it with your fingers!

Recently, our President (which is commonly called a figurehead, the PM does the work in Singapore) was supposed to go through a fair election, but we denounced all opposition because of some qualifications problem that other President wannabes had. Either they had little experience in large, significant organisations or what-not.

A pity, this democracy thing in Singapore. I don't know why - and I don't believe so, yet I somehow feel that the main party is THE party, and other parties plainly suck, although my logical reasoning tells me I went through some kind of indoctrination to get this.

Don't sue me for making these statements! :'(

[lowzeewee]

Gunner, shhhhhh! Don't let the government spies catch you posting this! You aren't even assured of freedom when blogging, let alone on a public internet forum! :O

[gunner154]

Somebody tell me what I'm posting aren't facts. I just have a pessimistic tone in stating facts.

[Egeides]

Let's just hope the world won't become "City 17"...

Never played Half-Life 2. Could someone explain what kind of caracteristics are interesting about City 17?

[TMA_1]

beh, sorry for going off subject, but though Halflife 2 was a decent game, the story was pretty lame.

[Andrew]

I liked what I saw of the first 30 minutes of HL2 on a gaming PC. Very good graphics. (Search for HL2 thread to continue :) )

Back on/off topic

Is USA a fascist state?

Gotta love some images from Old American Century gallery. Humourus, especially for Bush haters. ;)

Not from that site but still good:

My province is holding a referendum on whether to allow a proportional representation in the government elections.

http://www.electionspei.ca/plebiscites/pr/index.php

I'm gonna have to read up on it. To me it is good for the PC gov who have screwed up lately so they can get a good amount of seats in power in next election. And the 10 people that get picked from the "proportional represented" are 10 people that the electors do not get to pick (th epolitical parties do) which makes the process ridiculous.

EDIT:

Interestingly, if this proportional representation was used in the 1996 election the results are

1996 proposed: PC-13 Liberal-12 NDP-2

1996 actual: PC-18 Liberal-8 NDP-1

Looks like things could get interesting with a government that will consist of 50% one party and 50% another. Since 1989 the elections have been one way only for each party (PC majority one year, Liberal majority another)

Thinking on voting yes now. Just worried about how the proportional representative lists will be made up.

[Caid Ivik]

Well, few weeks ago some fascist fanatics murdered one my friend, with daggers, not blunt weapons...

[Andrew]

I take it back. USA is a police state.

Woman charged for refusing to show ID on a public bus for short article and other info relating to it.

One of her sons is fighting in Iraq, and she has to show ID to ride a public bus? Fighting for freedom? ha!

[gunner154]

I have heard of stories of nasty cops in the USA. Are they generally true? Like cops that beat up people and such.

[Andrew]

I think those are exagerated, but there still are those that do it.

Take for example, the beating of a black guy in new orleans last month caught on vid camera.

[Caid Ivik]

I have heard of stories of nasty cops in the USA. Are they generally true? Like cops that beat up people and such.

I don't know if it would be a weird question...is that something unusual? Isn't that what is police for? Or at least I would say that a good cop should be able to beat aggressors, not cowardly flee before any skinhead group like they most usually do.

[gunner154]

Cops who beat up and literally... well you can call it.. assault others, be it beating them up for minor problems or simply beating innocent people up utterly.

[JesusSatan]

Sorry to stray from the usual path, but democracy is foolish. Most people don't care who is in control and basically vote randomly. Additionally, most people couldn't give a crap about politics, or the way a country is run and would rather drink themselves stupid. Only a small subset of society has *ever* given a damn about how things are run.

[gunner154]

That isn't the main problem with democracy. The problem of democracy is with the leaders too. Good leaders and bad leaders. On top of that, a lot of deception lie behind the veil of politics. And besides... true democracy should mean Opposition. But OH, what Opposition!?

[Dude_Doc]

Sorry to stray from the usual path, but democracy is foolish. Most people don't care who is in control and basically vote randomly. Additionally, most people couldn't give a crap about politics, or the way a country is run and would rather drink themselves stupid. Only a small subset of society has *ever* given a damn about how things are run.

Isn't this exactly why we must change society? The real question you must be asking is if we really live in a democratic society today. If we look at the Western powers, we can see that much of their society is based on profit, to make money, to live good. Children in schools learn that they must take the decision about their lives - not to live in and as a society - with people. We learn how to live alone, not together.

So, in a way, what you say is right - that people don't care (on an average scale) about democracy. I believe that people don't believe in the world - exactly because what they do don't seem to come in handy for anybody else. If we lived in communities, if people worked for each other instead of for profit, then people would care much more.

Of course, the West seems to be the place where free speach is valued the most - but whose speach? Ours? They way I see it is that the politicians basically have lied to the people and said: "put your trust in us, and you will always have your rights". And for the most part, I believe this to be true. The ones we hear from, however, is those with power and money. 

That isn't the main problem with democracy. The problem of democracy is with the leaders too. Good leaders and bad leaders.

The point is - true democracy can not have leaders. In society, today, the leaders makes most of the decisions. Once in a while, they come across an issue they feel they can reveal to the public - thus some democracy. But after all - did Americans vote to go into war? To invade and "restore democracy" in Iraq? Did they vote that social welfare should be eradicated? That is where the problem lies. The way it is today is that we vote for a party and hopes for the best - we hope that there won't be any wars, or scandals or whatever. But if there are, well, we have to go along with it. For example, why not vote for the withdrawal of all US marines in Iraq?

The problem, as I see it, is that all institutions created today are covered behind layers of secrecy and complication. Not ever worker in Europe understood the EU constitution - hell, some people don't even know what the EU is for anyway. Society must get more transparent - more simple. We must be able to have a say in issues, instead of letting our "leaders" decide for us. Right now, careers, power, money and status is how you value someone. Your abilities and knowledge gets you forward - but what about those who are not able to do this?