refund? wtf!

[Tako]

I just mentioned this on the eurovision thread:

Holland contributes the most money per head to Europe

England evry year gets a large refund from the money they contribute

England has more to say in european parliament

Why? really this sucks, If you have more people in your country and you have more to say ok but no refund and no VETO this is ridicules

[Dunenewt]

We have more people, contribute more money, and we don't consume as many illegal drugs

England > Holland

Oh, and we're more useful, as we have the largest and best armed forces in Europe.

[Edric O]

I think it's because the English hate the EU so much that you have to bribe them to keep them in... ;)

[Dante]

I think that Britain badly mistreats the EU. Cast us out for a bit, hopefully we'll come crawling back, begging to be let back in. Well, everyone else will be crawling. I'll be standing nearby with a smug expression saying "I told you so." to anyone who'll listen.

[Dunenewt]

Doubt it.  We get less out of the EU than we put in.

[Dante]

What do we put in, though? Complaints and disagreements.

[nemafakei]

We tend to abide by the rules we sign up to, though. That's more than some countries.

You say Holland contributes more per capita... does it also receive more back?

Thing is, the UK pays a lot for things like... the Spanish transport system. There are lots of shiny new roads all over Spain paid for by the EU (and the Spanish government is making some nice toll money off it, too). I'm not aware of even a village lane having being paid for here by the EU, and our infrastructure is in pretty bad shape. We have NO high-speed rail. Our roads are essentially based on pre-war routes, unlike France or Germany where it's all planned.

Even with the rebate, the UK is a net contributor. I'm not sure how fair the rebate is, I don't have enough data. I'm quite pro-Europe, but I think voting rights is most of what we get out of Europe.

[Kiyouta]

Yeah we deserve that cash. If other countries are annoyed its only because they didn't ask for a rebate first! :P

[Tako]

I'm sayin Holland pays the most per head so lets say for an esample

holland pays 2 euro per head = 16.000.000 * 2 =32.000.000

England pays 1 euro per head = 50.000.000 * 1 = 50.000.000

that says that England pays more but not per head, why should we pay more if we do not have a even say in things, over a lot of things the bigger countries decide for us! (England, France, Germany etc)

You do still have the Veto right do you?

I say even pay eve say, so you pay per head and you get say per head, there is already a agreement that the mre people in the country you have the more seats you have that is OK but nothing more

As for other contributians, we also make out al lot of extra money apart from the anual contribute

[Davidu]

Invade'em!

[nemafakei]

Ah, no. I'm asking what you then receive from the EU.

[Tako]

at least with the new constitution we get to pay less ( think) at least equal payment....

don't know yet if the new european constitution is ok though, I'm thinking of voting NO,

nothing new for me

[Davidu]

The Franch already did it... so it's dead. Vote no just the same, to be on the safe side.

[Tako]

I will probebly, we dutch don't get anything new only less to say so why should I vote Yes?

No is the answer!

[Edric O]

There are plenty of other reasons to vote no... see this topic:

http://www.dune2k.com/forum/index.php?topic=17406.0

[alchemi2]

The rebate was agreed due to us not getting as much cash paid to us through EU economic policy and aid structures. France gains the greatest cash via agriculture support payments but everytime thats reviewed they use their veto to stop any cuts, same goes for Germany and Spain who recieve hugh grants and support through the EU.

Only way the rebate should go is if the whole subsaidy system is reformed to make it fairer to all.

[Anathema]

Yeah, I was laughing my ass off when the French government literally said the UK should make a gesture of solidarity by giving up their rebates. Even with those rebates, the UK is still a larger net contributer then France!

What annoys me about France is that they're trying to make themselves look as a strong, important nation in face of everyone while they can't even support their own farmers, rake in tons of cash from the EU, and still act like arrogant snobs.

I don't actually mind net contributing- we're a wealthy nation and all. But the money should go to poorer countries like Poland and such, not to nations like France wich are fully industrialised and have no excuse for leeching off EU money.

[alchemi2]

The idea behind the grants /subsidies is to help the country either improve that industry/business to the point where it can fairly compete or to allow for them to expand into other employment such as happened with the Spanish and English fishing fleets or the road improvements in Spain and elsewhere.

The problem with the French farmers is they have done neither in fact they are even more reliant on those monies but as they are a powerful voice in France so they get away with not improving their lot except through bigger subsidies.

Unless the present EU countries come together and sort out the agriculture policy and funding, as more and more poor under developed eastern block countries join the whole thing will collapse. Which from a trade point of view would be a bad thing.

The richer western europeans should help their poorer neighbours to get their countries on a a better more stable economic path But we need to sort our own house first, ideally they should all be net contributers. Afterall we will all have access to those developing counties markets.

[Anathema]

Exactly. But French politicians would be burried under criticism if they agreed to cut subsidies because that would mean thousends of French farmers would go out of business. Much rather they'd flood the market with piles of unwanted farm products, and continue draining the EU treasury. France needs to be put in its place.

[Picotrain]

The rebate was agreed due to us not getting as much cash paid to us through EU economic policy and aid structures. France gains the greatest cash via agriculture support payments but everytime thats reviewed they use their veto to stop any cuts, same goes for Germany and Spain who recieve hugh grants and support through the EU.

Lol, funny typo there. Germany and Spain seem to receive compensation in the form of a shoddy, British actor. I guess the EU is running out of money, or something. Although if the UK could get rid of their horrid actors though the EU, it would give them some incentive to stay in the EU ;-)

[ps501]

What annoys me about France is [they], rake in tons of cash from the EU, and still act like arrogant snobs.

/offtopic

Isn't that the definition of being a Frenchman?"

/endofftopic

I don't understand the reasoning behind such subsidization.  It in the end makes so sense.

Fact: You have to eat to survive:

Fact: Market economics of supply and demand dictate prices

So if you stopped all the worthless subsidization, then yes, some farmers would go out of business; others would take their place.  Due to the lack of supply then, if suddenly the price of a loaf of bread went to 25EUR, then I guarantee a bunch of people would start their own farms because that would mean the wheat, etc would be very profitable;  Eventually supply would catch up with demand, and there would be a leveling off - and an ultimate stabalization of prices. 

It always irritates me to know what the USA *STILL* Subsidizes Tobacco and Peanuts.  (Yes and then the USA even regulates the number of peanut farms too...)  e gad.  how pointless.