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[Dante]

Even the Encyclopaedia mentioned someone after whom the Jihad was named (though it wasn't Serena, I forget who. Jehanene, or something). Being against butlers in the machine-slave terms is unlikely, in that it isn't the most obvious word to choose.

[3ngel]

My idea of the Butlerian-Jihad is this :

The jihad was not only against the thinking machines, but against the mechanical computation (computer or supercomputer). This because all the background of dune is kinda medieval ones, with the computer and technology substituted by HUMAN-computer (mentato), or super-higly specialized humans (suck).

Why the jihad taked place?

Because the fear of the thinking machines, and because (quoting Leto II) "the humans had began thinking like machines, killing the cretivity". And at this purpose Leto II talks about Ixians, the evident signs of the stall of the human creativity.

[MrFlibble]

You're right. Wide use of (thinking) machines and machine logic creates patterned behavior, and this is dangerous:

All patterned behavior tends to go unquestioned, gathering destructive momentum.

[Mihail]

Does anyone know something about Houses Taligari and Vidal? Also, what was "The Great Spice War"?

[3ngel]

Here we debate only REAL dune books, not s***ty fake ones eheh ;)

[Mihail]

"Debate"? I was just asking a question. And who cares if they were written by Frank or Brian? So the books by Brian totally screwed up Frank's legacy, but the Houses mentioned there are interesting enough.

[Mihail]

Argh! I just want to find out if anyone knows something about Houses Taligari and Vidal!I just want to know something about them! ;)

EDIT: Also, I didn't even know that Taligari, Vidal and the Great Spice War appeared in the prequels. I was just skimming through Vanguard's list of the Houses of the Landsraad when I saw them.

[3ngel]

@Clemenza

Well, first of posting a question, assure yourself that the question does not concern the "others" than the 6 books by Frank Herbert.

Concerning the 6 books you'll find all the help you want, concerning the others, well first burn them, then forget them, then ask a question regarding the six books :D

[Mihail]

You know what? I'm just going to wait until someone answers my question; I'm not going to keep arguing about this. For Chrissake, my questions are about Houses and a war in the Dune univers, so it belongs here. I never said the prequels+books by Brian Herbert are any good(In fact, they are the opposite), I just want to know more about Houses Taligari and Vidal and the Great Spice War, because they sound slightly intersting! Jeez.

[3ngel]

@Clemenza

Now seriously :)

From you point of view your question is correct because you think that "dune universe" is all related to a thing named dune. But this is wrong 'cause the "dune universe" is all and only related to the 6 books written by Frank Herbert.

Why this? Because the 6 books form a coeherent system that has is life and mechanism in itself.

Why all the others books are shits (and in this i related to your spice war too)? Because the Brainfucked Herbert, has written so many false things and non-coherent thing in his books pretending they would be prequels or expansion of the six books, but instead they say so much incoherence you can't imagine.

This is why you'll not find help to your question easily. Thanks to those s***ty books, an user read them, then read the 6 books and keep questioning over and over : but why in the prequels its said so, and in the 6 book it's said all the opposite? And so on...

I hope you've done the point.

[Mihail]

I understand what you're saying, but even if you don't have any info about aforementioned Houses and war, that doesn't mean everyone else also doesn't. So my question still stands. I don't care if Brian's Dune universe contradicts Frank's Dune universe , I just want to know something about these Houses and war. I agree that Brian's universe is badly planned out and I have despised it since I read Butlerian Jihad(The only book of the prequels that I have read).

[Dante]

The Board title is 'Duniverse.' This can be the original six books, but in this context it also extends to the movie, miniseries, various board and card games, essays, theories, etc. This includes the prequels. They may not be canon, they may not be detailed, they may read like a delirious baboon writing in the mud with his rear. But they are part of the Duniverse nevertheless.

(Spoilers ahead, I suppose)

House Vidal does not have much detail on it, but may or may not be Ecaz under another name (see Vanguard's entry). It appeared in House Atreides as living on Ecaz, and I don't think was mentioned after that.

House Taligari appeared in House Corrino, and was created pretty much to show how ruthless the Emperor was. It's sole purpose in the plot was to be almost destroyed, much like the Richesian false moon, Corona. Which leads neatly on to...

The Great Spice War. When Shaddam ordered the Tleilaxu to find a substitute for melange, he knew that he would have to have sole control over it. His power would have been guaranteed, supposedly. But if any houses possessed stockpiles of spice, they would be able to hold out for long enough to resist him, possibly band enough houses together and overthrow him. So he set about crushing any and all houses with suspected stockpiles. Taligari was one of them.

Spoilers over. Questions more or less answered. Be happy and quit with the snobbery.

[Mihail]

Thanks, Dante. :)

[Cpt. Invictus]

Using only Frank Herbert's original six books, were there any concrete examples of how much destructive force was released when a lasgun interacted with a "personal" shield?

[MauDib]

All that FH said about lasgun/shield interaction is that it was equal to a small nuclear explosion.

[IxianMace]

Just wondering which of these are misspelt?

Maud'dib

Muad'dib

Sardaukar

Sarduakar

[Swordmaster_Duncan]

Just wondering which of these are misspelt?

Maud'dib

Muad'dib

Sardaukar

Sarduakar

The middle two are the correct spelling I believe, so, the top  and bottom words are misspelt.

[gunner154]

Muad'dib and Sardaukar are correct. Josh is right.

[Kiyouta]

Why couldn't Paul Muad'dib see both of his two children through prescience?

[MrFlibble]

Because Leto was prescient, and prescient people can't see each other in their vision - the same way Paul couldn't see Guild Navigators and, apparently, Count Fenring who was prescient as well (I'm not sure about Fenring though).

[Kiyouta]

Thanks!

[driftingcloud]

Because Leto was prescient, and prescient people can't see each other in their vision - the same way Paul couldn't see Guild Navigators and, apparently, Count Fenring who was prescient as well (I'm not sure about Fenring though).

I always thought that Paul saw the son but not the daughter. He knows he is going to have a son. If that is the case, it can't be because Leto is prescient. In fact, both twins are born awakened, like Alia, in the womb, because of Chani's excessive melange overdoses through the accelerated pregnancy.

I always thought it was Frank's way of saying, "Ha! Even prescience is fallible." Even prescience is not a perfect art, and that is the trap that Paul had gotten into, not seeing a way out of his reliance on the sight other than through his personal sacrifice. He saw his son was the solution, but he did not now all of the details of it. It's also as if he was so wrapped up in getting out of his trap that he missed such a critical thing right under his nose.

[MrFlibble]

Two children, Paul thought wonderingly. The vision had contained only a daughter. (p. 310)

The prescient ability is somehow different becuase of the gender of its wielder. This is why no female can be a Kwisatz Haderach, and even if Ghanima and Alia possessed the powers akin to those of Paul and Leto, they couldn't evade the oracular vision.

[Dante]

I was under the imression that it was related more to a specific genotype. In Chapterhouse for example, almost everyone has 'The Atreides Genes,' which allow the Bene Gesserit to avoid detection by the Honoured Matres, but force them to keep Scytale and Duncan in the No-ship. Leto therefore would have the specific genes, but Ghanima did not (the twins were not genetically identical after all, or they would have been the same gender).

[3ngel]

I quote MrFibble, i think it's more a question of gender than genotype.

Infact no female can be Kwuisatz. And Leto was more than a Kwuisatz so at major reasons Paul could not see him.

As i've said in another post, it's kind of power-jerarchy. Before Leto that was:

1) PaulMuadib

2) GuildNavigators

infact the Guild could not see Paul in the conspiration, but in the end we understand in the book (II) that Paul being a kwisatz could see the Guild conspirator.

After Leto the jerarchy became:

1) Leto

2) Paul

3) GuildNavigators.

Infact we see that Paul could not see Leto (could not see him with ghanima), but Leto could see better and further than Paul (including Paul himself) (final dialogue in book III).