Faith (as we know it)

[Acriku]

This is a straight-forward question: What is faith?

Is faith:

a) trust in something without any reason or evidence?

b) trust in something with little reason or evidence?

c) trust in something with reason or evidence not to?

...Or do you have another definition?

Please post your personal answer. An explanation as to why would be helpful, thanks.  :)

[Dante]

Depends on how the word is used. To 'take something on faith' would be to believe or at least accept something with little or no evidence. Similar for 'putting faith in' something.

As for 'having faith,' well that's a different matter. I would take that faith to be a belief (or trust, if you wish to put it that way) in something, regardless of the evidence. After all you can have faith in other people, a specific person, a deity, or that the sun will rise tomorrow. Or today, in my case. All of these have varying ammounts of evidence to support them, but all to some degree have faith put in them.

My answer: To believe or trust in something, regardless of evidence.

[Anathema]

I have not researched any other religion then christianity, so I'll just keep to that. It's said in some verse that those who believe in christ without any evidence poiting towards his existence and divinity, are truly blessed.

Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou has believed. Blessed are they who have not seen, and yet have believed.

Or something like that. True faith does not require evidence. Though you could wonder about when evidence contradicts your faith.

[DukeLeto]

Well, I'd say originally it was "A", but with all the scientific advances of recent years, it's degraded into "C".

There was no concrete evidence to support the extraordinary claims of biblical works thousands of years agao, but we now know that a lot of the claims are either easily explained or physically impossible.

[Gobalopper]

I would say something along the line of what Anathema mentioned:

d) trusting or believing in something without evidence proving it wrong

I think if you are believing or have faith in something that has been proven incorrect it can be categorized as something other then faith.

[nemafakei]

For purposses of distinction between faith and reasoned conclusion, it can mean A or C (unless the evidence in C is conclusive, in which case, it's known as foolishness). Of course, it has other meanings in different contexts.

Dante's definition also holds true of many other uses, however, (though best not used in argument); if I told a fried I had faith in them, I would not be implying in the least that I had no real evidence to trust them.

Plus, it can have more of a substantive meaning, as in 'I belong to faith X'.

[Caid Ivik]

This is a straight-forward question: What is faith?

Is faith:

a) trust in something without any reason or evidence?

b) trust in something with little reason or evidence?

c) trust in something with reason or evidence not to?

...Or do you have another definition?

This is an ancient problem: what is "reason", what is "evidence"? If we would follow any of these definitions, most faithless in this way would be Leibnitz and german pantheists like Spinoza or Hegel, and yet they use term "God" for the base of all reasons and evidences. There are things we have to believe in because of instinct (ie that with "trust" you mean same term as I do, when I read it) or induction (as I saw that this term usually seemed to be used in such way). For some it is an evidence - but if you dig into it, you can see that evidence is just faith on a deeper level.

[Egeides]

Acriku:

Trust... evidence...

Do you trust that your girlfriend loves you based on some metaphysical evidence? Can you prove without any doubt her love?

Also, you talk about evidence. Do you have any faith in your reason? Do you trust it?

As Caid brought in the preceding post, the tricky thing is in the definitions.

[Wolf]

All three can be seen as faith, depending on the situation or point of view. Though, of all of them, I have to say that the Kierkegaard-esque © is my favorite.

[Acriku]

All very good answers, thank you. I want to shift it over now to how you would define faith as used in here: "I have faith in God." No tricks, just a straight-forward question. If a reason for me asking is comforting, I have had a lot of trouble discussing with people of the Christian faith more than not, and the problem lies in how people define faith. I've always thought faith to be defined as it is mentioned in the bible:

"Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

"... It is the confident assurance that something we want is going to happen. It is the certainty that what we hope for is waiting for us, even though we cannot see it up ahead."

But instead of going on that, I'm interested in other people's thoughts and why they think otherwise or concurrently.

Acriku:

Trust... evidence...

Do you trust that your girlfriend loves you based on some metaphysical evidence? Can you prove without any doubt her love?

Also, you talk about evidence. Do you have any faith in your reason? Do you trust it?

As Caid brought in the preceding post, the tricky thing is in the definitions.

If I had a girlfriend, and I felt that she loved me, I would trust it based on her actions and words. Metaphysical evidence not required, nor necessary. I cannot prove without any doubt that she loves me unless I define love as what is shown through her actions. Of course, there will always be doubt. I can't think of a single feeling that can be proven "without any doubt" much less love. Feelings are difficult to interpret unless they're yours, but even then it's complicated. As far as my reason goes, I trust that it is correct in-so-far as her actions portray the same feeling. You and Caid are both right, the tricky thing about any discussion or debate is in the definitions. A debate can go on for hours for the single reason that the two people simply define things different and don't realize it.

[Caid Ivik]

"Believe in God" is a term of many senses. Well, good, let we say that we have defined what does mean "believe". But what is the object of believe now? Is it some of His attributes? Like the things which we know about God are only those showed, altough its essence is hidden, not understandable by human mind? Isn't what atheist are talking about that they "don't believe in" just some of them: ie His omnipotence, omniscience, benevolence? Christianity believes that this "hidden essence" of God is love, and so He is benevolent. Good, so...do you need any reason for it? God is a source and reason for everything by philosophical definition, does than a certain believe in some theory change this?

Perhaps you might be confused in this self-deduction, but it's old medieval stuff what we talk about now. And they went to a fact, that we need to live with it to understand.

Love is a perfect example. You would not define it unless there is some girl dominating your thoughts, and only by relations, by life with her, you can see that you do so same in her. That is needed to experience, surely, but this experience is hard to derive into words, you know... Love is an act and God, in christian terminology, is an absolute love: in Aquinas you have theory of God as "actus purus". I think I am clear now.

[TMA_1]

I think that there are differet kinds of faith. I guess when you are talking about certain religious beliefs though, that kind of faith is the kind of believing without evidance or seeing.

[Tako]

Fiath is trusting in some-omne or something without any questions asked, you trust it adn follow it and do not need any explenation, this is all because you "believe "it is for the better and that it will one day lift you up to a higher level ( iaw, heaven or simular)

this defenition is also called blind faith,

personaly I like the frais: (translated from dutch) "undergo/discover/research everything and keep that what is good"

[Acriku]

Okay, thanks for the answers. Would you guys agree that the power of faith comes from the fact that it is believing without reason or evidence? Or does the power come from somewhere else?

[Dante]

Power from conviction. Strong faith = strong conviction = strong power. Whether this faith is supported by evidence or no is immaterial.

[TMA_1]

well that depends acriku. Some people believe that the pwoer comes from a supernatural agency, while others believe the power of faith comes from the human heart and mind. It is dangerous to be too objective on this subject. It all boils down to faith, how ironic.lol

[nemafakei]

Irrespective of religious faith, people more confident (which is often an product of faith) are often capable of daring far more. That religious faith does not work this way is unlikely. That said, there might be some divine intervention, but that's really something you can't know, even if you assume there is a god.

[Caid Ivik]

Okay, thanks for the answers. Would you guys agree that the power of faith comes from the fact that it is believing without reason or evidence? Or does the power come from somewhere else?

No. Why? Look to previous posts...

[Dragoon Knight]

While we're on the topic of faith, I might as well verse my opinion on the whole thing.  I belive that 'faith' - in both the religious and non-religious sense - is to have a belief that a person feels to be justified.  Whether it is true or not depends on the justification of that belief... here is where all of the arguments come from.  We cannot justify the existence of God, for example, or that the Sun will rise tomorrow.  We simply 'believe in' or 'have faith in' these things, because it would be impractical to go around being a global sceptic.

Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou has believed. Blessed are they who have not seen, and yet have believed.

I am reminded of The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy at this point...

"I refuse to prove I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."

"But," says Man, "the Babel Fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it?  It proves you exist and so therefore you don't."

"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that..." and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.

"Oh," says Man, "that was easy!"  And then, he goes on to prove that black is white, and dies at the next Zebra Crossing.

;D