File Sharing Warning

[Dragoon Knight]

OK, I'm pretty pissed off at the moment.  I'm sure everyone here has heard of file sharing or P2P programs such as Kazaa, right?  Let me tell you all a true story...

For about a week now, my file sharing program LimeWire has been acting up.  I thought it might be a problem with my ISP's server, it can hiccup at times.  I knew it wasn't just my computer, because my friend across the road was having the same problem.  I also knew that it wasn't LimeWire, because my cousin had been using it fine for ages.

"It has to be BISCIT..." I said to myself.  So I phone them to check it out.

A few minutes later, I get this email.

Dear Chris,

Thank you for submitting a report on problems you have been having using peer to peer sharing software.

Having looked over your account it does appear that your package should allow this use. We have, however, temporarily suspended this use on your account as we have reason to suspect that a copyright was being infringed. The lockout system is automatic and unfortunately there is no way to alert the user to this blocking. This is likely to be caused by the fact that we have received a complaint from a copyright holder like Paramount or the Motion Picture Association or there is a large bandwidth on your account. It is possible that the use was entirely legitimate but we want to ensure that all of our users are fully aware of the legalities of such systems before opening themselves up to any kind of prosecution.

By the time I've finished reading this message, I feel ill... with both worry and rage.  I haven't downloaded anything illegal or copyrighted, and BISCIT themselves assure me that LimeWire is legal.  I don't use that much bandwidth, which rules out possibility number 2.  After a while, I feel better, but now infused with pure rage.  I send them the following email back...

Dear Ben,

Regarding your email, I would like to request any and all information held by you regarding myself and the status of my connection.  I was totally unaware of any copyright infringement on the part of myself or my flatmates and I was assured that the software I was using was totally legitimate.

I have consulted LimeWire's website, which details their view on such issues:

"Individuals who reproduce, distribute copies, receive copies, publicly perform or display works or inventions other than their own and without the consent of the owners or holders of rights, or their authorized agents, in original works of authorship or inventions, may be in violation of copyright, patent or other intellectual property infringement." - Quoted from http://www.limewire.com/english/content/ftc.shtml

I can assure you that I did not download LimeWire with the intention of violating copyrights, and that any files that I may have downloaded did not specify that they were copyrighted.  If there has indeed been any infringement, then I have been totally unaware of it.

I found your email shocking, in that you are incinuating that I have intentionally broken the law.  I have deleted all file sharing programs from my computer, including all files that I have received from the use of such programs.  I am disgusted at the possibility that I have been unwittingly lured into copyright violation.  I can assure you most wholeheartedly that I am no more responsible for this issue than a thrown brick is responsible for breaking a window.

As I said before, I would like to request that you send me all information regarding me and my connection, in line with the rights given to me by the Data Protection Act of 1998.  I have completed the form you sent me, and it shall be posted tomorrow morning.  Your rapid response would be welcome regarding this issue.

Regards,

Chris Smith.

They then say that they only have my normal account details on their system, and that complaints about copyright are on a paper based system.  I'm getting very angry at them now... cutting me off without any warning.  I haven't done anything wrong, or if I have, it's been without me knowing.  But they also said this...

"...we have had a couple of outside agencies checking the network..."

Be advised that the internet authorities are now starting to check ISPs for illegal P2P downloads by users.  If you use a file sharing program, be extra careful.  You've always been at risk using one, but it appears that they are really cracking down now.

I hope this doesn't happen to anyone else... I'll let you all know what happens.

[nemafakei]

"They then say that they only have my normal account details on their system, and that complaints about copyright are on a paper based system"

Interesting that they can follow through with these 'temporary suspensions' digitally. Perhaps you'd like to ask them if they would find it easier to enforce the suspensions through a paper-based medium.

Do you have a record of what files you did download? I'm a little worried that your email implies accptance of some kind of responsibility which you don't intend.

Incidentally, here might be a good place to reord all the times of each of your correspondences with the company.

[Dragoon Knight]

Do you have a record of what files you did download?

No, I never bothered with anything like that.  I did delete everything, though... the problem might lie in the fact that I've downloaded several music files and one or two movies, but I own them on DVD or CD anyway.  This, as far as I'm aware, makes it perfectly legal to have 'backups'.  I even move everything out of my shared folder at the end of every day, and I don't allow uploads.  They slow me down far too much.

I've also found out who's doing the looking in on BISCIT, though I can't say exactly who.  Let's just say that one is a big company in the U.S., and the other is one step away from the Men in Black, if you know what I mean. :O

[erjin999]

I am no expert, but it did sound like your reply said "might have without realising" thereby admitting you could have copyrighted thingies on your comp.

Dont worry about it though. If its onoy a few items, I would guess they have bigger fish to fry.

[Dragoon Knight]

I didn't, though.  I owned everything I downloaded on DVD or CD, which makes it legal.  But they don't ask you that... they just assume that you're doing something illegal and cut you off.

And I really do hope that there will be nothing happening as a result of this.  I can't afford any fines or anything that they'd slap on me, and I can't afford to fight my case.  This whole situation just sucks.  Bloody U.S. copyright people should keep their damned noses out of my business. >:(

[nemafakei]

Do remember you're entitled to legal representation provided by the government.

I'm sure you have, but if not, check your term of contract with your ISP, too. Make sure you know just where you stand as regards whether or not they can suspend service arbitrarily and without notice.

Remember that responses such as: "The lockout system is automatic and unfortunately there is no way to alert the user to this blocking" and paper based systems are the company's problem, not yours.

[Dragoon Knight]

I'm sure you have, but if not, check your term of contract with your ISP, too. Make sure you know just where you stand as regards whether or not they can suspend service arbitrarily and without notice.

Oh they can... they reserve every right to do so.  Take a look at their Acceptable Use Policy.  Basically, if these people think that I'm breaking the law, BISCIT will do everything they can to help them, not me.  Talk about customer service. ::)

Remember that responses such as: "The lockout system is automatic and unfortunately there is no way to alert the user to this blocking" and paper based systems are the company's problem, not yours.

Yeah, but they do a really good job of making them my problem.  They don't even apologise for the inconvenience, and all they can do is send pitiful excuses and automated replies.  It just really annoys me... but thanks for the advice.  If it comes to it, I'll challenge them all the way.

[nemafakei]

"16) It is the customer's responsibility to ensure that their connection is not used to acquire or make available any material that is subject to copyright, without the copyright holder's explicit consent. BISCIT shall not be responsible for such illicit use, and the customer shall be liable to such copyright holders, and will indemnify BISCIT against any claims with respect to such illegal use. Notwithstanding the Data Protection Act, BISCIT will comply with relevant authorities with regard to any such complaints or copyright infringements, and if required, will supply further details to such authorities."

I wonder whether they are in fact in violation of the DPA by handing your data to

"Subject to copyright..." that can either mean that the data is copyright of anyone... like Fed2k is copyright of Gobalopper. So that's just spurious. It must therefore mean (Edit: as indeed suggested by "without the copyright holder's explicit consent") subject to copyright such that you do not have some legal right to access. Which seems not to be the case. They don't threaten anything specific here, either.

"17) BISCIT reserves the right to require a customer to sign a disclaimer concerning use of Peer to Peer software, which the customer must not unreasonably refuse to complete. "

I'd be surprised if a contract that requires you to blindly sign another is legal, incidentally.

"21) Following a breach of these terms and conditions, BISCIT will take any action it considers to be appropriate up to and including closure of the account without notice. All breaches will be reviewed on a case by case basis."

If you've breached their terms, yes, they can do anything they like. Perhaps their automatic sustem has picked up a possible breach. Perhaps they've received a complaint. But unless they've actively found you to have breached the terms (note, as it happens, the final sentence of point 21), they cannot enact this clause.

[Anathema]

You are entitled to making copies of music and movies you have bought. However anybody can say that they already paid for it (not implying that you didn't)

Why don't you just make mp3 files of your CD's yourself?

[Megashrap]

  Bloody U.S. copyright people should keep their damned noses out of my business. >:(

I find it rather odd and disturbing that now they are now focussing alot on 'what an individual can or could do illegally with their Internet connections, speed, bandwidth etc.'

Rather than actual proof of what one has actually done illegally. As for the scare-tactics, well I for one have a special folder just for such threats, the trash folder. Also, the longer people let these laws evolve without strong oppossition, and nip them in the bud, so to speak.  Sooner or later Downloading itself will become a crime to, as will having high band width capability and (payed for I might add and still paying for monthly) a nice high speed Internet access. I have talked to my ISP several times on this matter and have been assured by them that they would never give out info. without first informing thier clients first of a possible threat. If enough people would inquire to them about such invasions of privacy for starters, they would be alot more informed as to what they can and cannot do.  Now alot of ISP's would probly say well, we just cant fight it. If enough paying customers were to say for example, fight it or you will lose me as a paying customer, Big named ISP's would fight it. Without question because they would have something to lose also. Alot of damn cash.  Hell if 50 paying customers, paying around 50 bucks a month were to stop, it would put a nice little dent in the ISP's comp's pocket book.  Were not paying an ISP for pirate downloading, but service to use the Internet.

[Dragoon Knight]

Thanks for the advice, Nema.  I'll keep it in mind.  I haven't heard anything back from BISCIT yet, but I will keep everyone informed as this develops.  I get the feeling that this is only the beginning... I may once again seek your counsel. ;)

Why don't you just make mp3 files of your CD's yourself?

I do.  I've moved my entire Bon Jovi CD collection onto my computer.  I'm listening to it right now, in fact.  If they come around asking for it, I can at least really piss them off by showing them that I own copies of everything legitimately.  Oooh I really hate them... I always get blamed for things I haven't done. >:(

Were not paying an ISP for pirate downloading, but service to use the Internet.

Amen to that!  :D

[alchemi2]

What ever happened to innocent until proved guilty!

Personally i would be demanding service to be resumed and a rebate for time lost, also i would push for some sort of compensation for the cost of calls/mail sent and the stress worry and fustration.

Their excuse of automated response is basicly not good enough, an automatic mailing should be sent prior to them interupting your service and they should easily be able to cite what it is you have done wrong otherwise they have no basis on which to stop your service.

If you allow them to bully and intimidate you they will, remember you are the paying customer and they are there to provide to you, not vise versa

You mention roommates are you aware if they have misused your account/service?

[Caid Ivik]

Is it illegal to have a file sharing program? Then it should be illegal to make any website, what does protect my text I am writing here?

[Anathema]

Is it illegal to have a file sharing program?

No  ::)

[Dragoon Knight]

Is it illegal to have a file sharing program? Then it should be illegal to make any website, what does protect my text I am writing here?

:D Damn right!  Hey, look everyone!  I'm breaching Caid's copyright by quoting his text!  Someone call the RIAA! ;D

Seriously, though, I agree with what everyone is saying.  Alchemi2, yes I did mention flatmates.  One of them is a Linux user that has no file sharing at all, another is a Mac user who I'm not too sure about, but we stopped him from downloading Kazaa yesterday.  The other is a fellow Windows XP user, and he plays a lot of multiplayer games online.

Come to think of it, since all four of us share one connection, could it be that our combined internet usage has exceeded some sort of monthly limit?  BISCIT do not specify any kind of limit in their contract, but they do mention one in the first email they sent me.  Ohhh this just gets better and better, doesn't it? ::)

[erjin999]

How do you share internet? Have you thought about blocking ports if it is a router so no one can use file sharing proggies now ?

I say that seeing as you stopped one of the flatmates from downloading kazaa...

[Dragoon Knight]

How do you share internet? Have you thought about blocking ports if it is a router so no one can use file sharing proggies now ?

We share the internet through a router in my room.

[gryphon]

A guy living across the street from me got sort of the same email as you have. I unforunately didn't get one. I can say freely that I consume way more bandwidth then he does. . and don't use any P2P filesharing programs. [ except for the Redhat package update client ]

I guess they just watch for commonly used ports by P2P programms. .and when they feel like it start sending out emails.

The moment they send me one is 5 seconds before gryphon picks up his phone to call his lawyer .. .

[Megashrap]

I will send mine right back to them, with an added attachment they may not like too much.

[Megashrap]

Btw, It only takes a few minutes of anyones time to simply sign a Petition to Congress. For anyone against the RIAA it is probably the least effort needed to show an ounce of support for your Civil Rights. http://www.eff.org/share/petition/

[Cyborg]

In Norway, it's illegal to investigate the network habits of people unless the authorities have strong claims, thus they don't care about P2P.

Laws migh've changed after Nyew Year's Eve, though, but I doubt it.

Bittorrent(especially .torrent hosts) should be legal in both Norway and Sweden.

[Megashrap]

Thankfully, they cannot make Bit-Torrent itself Illegal due to the fact that so many other online sources use this program. Game, Software, online selling (different retailers) that use this program for its downloading properties and ease of use. Bit-Torrent sites in general though are up and running still, just a select few that chose not to deal with the threats.

It only means torrent sites will pop up galore somewhere else. To date it's 700+ in the U.S. have been sued, thusfar only 2 have admitted to

[Caid Ivik]

:D Damn right!  Hey, look everyone!  I'm breaching Caid's copyright by quoting his text!  Someone call the RIAA! ;D

You can be helly sure that I will  ;D