Fixing Canada (I'm now a permanent resident)

[emprworm]

WHOPEE!

[nemafakei]

I'm not very well versed on Canadian politics: what are the main parties?

[Caid Ivik]

Emprworm an emmigrant? I thought regimes don't oppress their adorants...

[nemafakei]

Emigrant not in the manner of a refugee, so much as a colonist.

[SurlyPIG]

More like a Missionary than a colonist, but not of solely religious objectives.

As to your earlier question, there are many federal parties, but only four have seats in parliament (I'll ignore the Senate since it's a pointless cespool of patronage):

The Liberal Party of Canada: the Canadian continuation of the British party of the same name currently in power with a majority government.  Their ideology is center-left and their current leader, who is Prime Minister, is Paul Martin.  The great majority of their seats are in central-eastern Canada, particularly in Ontario and Quebec, Canada's largest provinces.

The Conservative Party of Canada: a new party which is the product of the merging of two smaller parties, the Progressive-Conservative Party (center-right, also a spin-off of a British party), and the Canadian Alliance (formerly known as the Canadian Reform Alliance Party [i wonder if they knew their party was CRAP] which was further right than the PCs).  Their party leader is Stephen Harper and the majority of their seats in parliament are from western Canada.

Parti Quebecios: Quebec's separatist party.  I can't tell you much about them because frankly, I don't know or care.  They aren't interested in me (a non-Quebecer) and I'm not interested in them (separatists).  Their party platform is pushing Quebec's interests, and their ultimate goal is Quebec separation.

New Democrat Party of Canada: Canada's leftists party.  Their power lies in the Maritimes (far eastern provinces) and are led by Jack Layton.

[Andrew]

Actually Atlantic Canada gets some of the Federal dollars as well.

Especially per capita.

I guess what you are saying is that Quebec gets the most out of it.

It's funny that Alberta is keeping the rest of Canada afloat.

Equalization plan

http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/eqpe.html

[emprworm]

many Quebecians (if Quebecians is a word) favor independence.

i say give it to them.

good riddance. 

Canada needs to be set free from the Quebec albatross.

[SurlyPIG]

It's Quebecios (adj or noun) or the more in-use (in English that is) Quebecer (noun).

Two referendums have already been held, and both failed by a slim margin.  Since then, that margin has increased.  Quebec can separate if it wants to, and if it does, it should do so completely.  Canada separating from Quebec is a strange concept.  I can't think of any instance in history where a region has been expelled from a sovereign nation.  Even so, Quebec isn't even Canada's largest economic burden.

[exatreide]

and isnt a good 1/3 of qubec indian reservation anyway?

[emprworm]

It's Quebecios (adj or noun) or the more in-use (in English that is) Quebecer (noun).

  Even so, Quebec isn't even Canada's largest economic burden.

really?  I thought the unemployment, and social sustinences of Quebec cause the largest burden in Canada, on average per population.  Is not Quebec in the most debt of all provinces?

[zamboe]

The former USSR have separated it's states in a pacific way with no referendums and with people inside/outside in favor/against it. I don't see much a problem with the separation. However it would be very odd see a country (Canada) with a country in the middle of it.

[SurlyPIG]

Yeah, I can see that with the USSR.  The situation just seems to warrant it.  But Quebec has been a part of Canada pretty much from the get-go.

really?  I thought the unemployment, and social sustinences of Quebec cause the largest burden in Canada, on average per population.  Is not Quebec in the most debt of all provinces?

Ontario is in the most debt, but they stabilised a few years back and are improving.  Quebec has the 2nd largest debt and as of now has almost stabilised (very little deficit left) but their debt per capita is the worst.  I'll post some fiscal stats but I'll only bother with the big four:

Debt:

Ontario: 98.352 billion

Quebec: 84.536 billion

BC: 26.292 billion

Alberta: -6.876 billion (nonexistent debt...we're the only prov not in the hole)

Per capita debt:

Quebec: $11,680

Ontario: $8,620

BC: $6,728

Alberta: $2,311 <<<-surplus, not debt

Quebec's per capita debt was only slightly higher than Nova Scotia's and Newfoundland's.  If we were to separate with Quebec based on economic reasons, to be consistent we would have to separate from NS, Nfl and probably PEI because even though their per capita debts are smaller, they don't have the economic muscle Quebec does.  A fish industry based on fish that are nearing regional extinction, a small amount of slightly diseased potatoes, and the tourism revenue generated by Anne of Green Gables can only put so much food on your plate. :)

To be fair, most of the debt accumulated by Quebec was when it was governed by an ideological party obsessed with separation and not very concerned with governing well and managing resources.  Some say their blundered spending was inentional.  The rest of the debt was accumulated by the Liberal party.  As long as there's a non-separatist government in Quebec at the provincial level, Quebec is a plus and not a minus.  Ideally, we'll get some Alberta PCs in there and show them how to really kill their debt.  As separatism dies, so will Quebec's debt.  All we have to do to ensure that is keep obnoxious French presidents out of the country when the Expo is on. ;D

[Andrew]

Quebec's per capita debt was only slightly higher than Nova Scotia's and Newfoundland's.

[Wolf]

Shouldn't this whole matter be left up to the residents of Quebec?

[Anathema]

Congratulations emprworm! Still I think there are only 2 real reasons you want Quebec out. One, they're liberal, two, they're French speaking ;)

[emprworm]

thanks for that info Ace, didn't know that.

[otheymzefedaykin]

"Vive le Quebec libre" ! :D I'm joking of course ! It may be a good thing to give independance to Quebec, but I'm afraid about the consequences....

So, I'm surprised that you leave USA ! Why want you to be a Canadian ? ???

[TMA_1]

good gravy empr.lol

the problem with people who are extremely left wing and extremely right wing is they are related in so many ways. two sides of the same coin.

it is two-fold really. They are both self righteous, and they are both idealistic towards their beliefs. It just really bothers me.lol

[Edric O]

the problem with people who are extremely left wing and extremely right wing is they are related in so many ways. two sides of the same coin.

it is two-fold really. They are both self righteous, and they are both idealistic towards their beliefs. It just really bothers me. lol

*AHEM*

That remark was not only uncalled for, but it is also entirely groundless, with no base in reality or fact. And worst of all, that remark is a lie.

Whatever my personal traits of character are - and I may be many things, but I am most certainly not "self-righteous" - they have no bearing on my politics. If you have an issue with my political views or my arguments for them, then bring it up and let's discuss it. Don't make silly blanket statements.

And as for being "two sides of the same coin", I challenge you to find me ONE SINGLE similarity between Emprworm's political views and my own. We are so clearly opposed to each other (him being far right and me being far left), that your comments are just laughably ridiculous.

[TMA_1]

umm I wasent talking about you edric, in fact I like your ideas because you actually STUDY your opinions, so it wasent focused on you.

what I am talking about are those who are extremists who are self righteous. I wont name specific names but you know what I am talking about. They are idealists to their cause and will not flinch to reason or sensability. Because of this they are extremely self righteous and are hard to debate with. This is why a lot of people are getting angry with the PRP boards.

And if you say this do you know what those self righteous people will say? If you dont like it than dont post, this is for opinions.

that is all fine and good, but it does make an affirmation to my point, those who are like this are so self righteous, whether you be a liberal or a conservitive. You think your opinions are better than others so there is no reason to argue with you.

see what I mean now edric? Though you are definitely opinionated,lol you do actually listen. That is mature and that is good in my opinion, though I dont agree with you all the time. :) hehe

and also, blanket statements are nothing bad at all if they are true, you know that man. So dont be so defensive I wasent attacking you. If I was I would say I was attacking you. Instead I am attacking IDEAS and BELIEFS that people have that make them self righteous.

[Edric O]

Ok, I understand what you meant now, but your initial statement was targeted at everyone with radical opinions - so of course I felt offended.

You're right about the people who just won't listen, but close-mindedness has very little to do with "extremism" or political affiliation. You can find close-minded people at the extreme right, at the extreme left and everywhere in between. You can also find rational and sensible people in all those places. And those are the people I respect - even when they disagree with me, or when they are just plain wrong.

So, in other words, I tend to agree with you, but you should have been more specific. This is why I dislike blanket statements...

[Edric O]

And as if to prove my point about our differences, Emprworm made that idiotic comment of his just a few posts above. I know I should be used to his hateful, self-righteous, arrogant and just plain sickening bashing of the poor by now, but I can't help feeling utter contempt and disgust towards the sorry excuse for a human being who wrote THIS:

what a shame to hear that the hard working citizens of Alberta have to work extra hard to give tax payer money to the lazies in the other provinces.  Nice to think that you are funding suzie and stacy, an out of work lesbian couple with 4 kids sucking off the tax system, their next methodone hit.  (methodone is the legal way to 'come off' heroin addiction.  accept people with methodone prescriptions get addicted to methodone instead)

all those lazy jobless people alberta funds with its money.

Yes, what a shame we live in a world where people have rights, where the poor can't be left to die in the streets among the rotting corpses of their friends and loved ones who were fortunate enough to have their suffering ended sooner. What a shame we support the unemployed and thus allow them to find a job, instead of letting them sink into poverty and cutting off all their opportunities. What a shame the jobless poor of Canada can spend their days looking for a job rather than searching for scraps of food in piles of garbage and worrying about where their next meal will come from. What a shame we no longer have the slums, the smog-choked cities, the collapsing houses, the disease-infested poor neighborhoods and the stench of decay that was the crowning glory of 19th century laissez-faire capitalism!

But with people like Emprworm, all those wonders may yet return. All it takes is to close your eyes. All it takes is to deny reality. All it takes is to look away from the poor and think of them as less than human - drug-addicted lesbians, for example - and forget about the workers who lost their jobs to corporate downsizing, or the parents who can't guarantee a future for their children. Just imagine they're all filthy, lazy, unwashed drug-addicts. That's the spirit. Vote for the conservatives! Let yourself be consumed with rage against the poor, and turn a blind eye to the opulent rich and the way they rip you off. When the government takes a bit of your money to build a hospital for innocent children, scream at the top of your lungs. When your boss takes a huge chunk of the products of your labour and goes to buy himself a trip to a tropical paradise, keep your mouth shut. That's all it takes. And when you finally fall through the cracks and are forced to remove the blindfold from your eyes, it will be too late.

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

[Dante]

You're right about the people who just won't listen, but close-mindedness has very little to do with "extremism" or political affiliation. You can find close-minded people at the extreme right, at the extreme left and everywhere in between. You can also find rational and sensible people in all those places. And those are the people I respect - even when they disagree with me, or when they are just plain wrong.

That's good to know.

And as for being "two sides of the same coin", I challenge you to find me ONE SINGLE similarity between Emprworm's political views and my own. We are so clearly opposed to each other (him being far right and me being far left), that your comments are just laughably ridiculous.

I'm not sure about Emprworm but you have to admit there are some similarities between our political viewpoints.

...

Disagreement with Emprworm for example.  ;)

And more than a similarity between views on (for example) discrimination.

[emprworm]

But with people like Emprworm, all those wonders may yet return. All it takes is to close your eyes. All it takes is to deny reality. All it takes is to look away from the poor and think of them as less than human - drug-addicted lesbians, for example - and forget about the workers who lost their jobs to corporate downsizing, or the parents who can't guarantee a future for their children. Just imagine they're all filthy, lazy, unwashed drug-addicts. That's the spirit. Vote for the conservatives! Let yourself be consumed with rage against the poor, and turn a blind eye to the opulent rich and the way they rip you off. When the government takes a bit of your money to build a hospital for innocent children, scream at the top of your lungs. When your boss takes a huge chunk of the products of your labour and goes to buy himself a trip to a tropical paradise, keep your mouth shut. That's all it takes. And when you finally fall through the cracks and are forced to remove the blindfold from your eyes, it will be too late.

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

But with people like Edrico, all those wonders may yet return. All it takes is to close your eyes. All it takes is to deny reality. All it takes is to look away from the educated and hard working citizens who made a life for themselves and think of them as less than human - rich elitist evil scum, for example - and forget about the poor people who forfeited smoking hemp, friday night parties, and gang-banging sex fests, who instead studied, worked hard and rose above their problems through dedication, discipline, and made a life for themselves (above average dedication to work = above average standard of living)

[SurlyPIG]

Take it outside you two...

Andrew, I'm only joking!  The fish comment was directed at Newfoundland, and the whole potatoe thing is as absurd as our mad cow thing.  And who doesn't like AoGG?  I like PEI, and I think it'd be silly to separate from PEI as it would be to separate from Quebec.

Wolfwiz, it is up to Quebec.  They've held two referendums (vote to separate) already and both failed.

otheymzefedaykin, just keep your Presidents on your side of the Atlantic and all will be fine.  Besides, most French people wouldn't care whether or not Quebec separates.