The Israeli- Palestinian conflict

[leo]

This conflict is over 100 years. Many been done and many should be done. I know that one of the main affects on it is the way the world looks at it. Some support Israeli’s side others the Palestinian. I’m fascinated to hear what you guys think about it.

[Anathema]

I think that the only solution is that the Palestinians be given their own homeland, but both sides must be willing to give in and do their part. I doubt anyone here is stricly on the Palestinian or Israelian side.

[leo]

Most of the Israeli society is for your solution. The problem is that the terror attacks will continue after it. The terror groups in Palestine are not fighing for "peace". Their goal is to kill every single jew on this land, they demand all Israel without compromises

[alchemi2]

trouble is these thing take generation to work out, just look at england ireland conflict even with a seperate indendent state it will continue some will never put down the gun. :(

[Inoculator9]

People just don't know when to quit.

[Egeides]

I agree that the terror part is a serious problem: it doesn't stop. But there's worst: the state of Israel seems to bring more "terror" than the other side, killing 3 times what the terrorist are killing, destroying incredibly more. So we can't just say "it's the fault of the terrorists" since the Israeli state is even more wreckless. And it could get dramatically worst: they didn't signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and are suspected of having bio-chemicals (is it true or not, I can't conclude).

Is it the fault of the population? No on both sides, as in many other wars. You only need some fanatics and a government with some interests. The more bloody it gets, the more damn fanatics (terrorists) there will be (until, of course, they are all restrained into one area with no ressources to defend: a destroyed place, no economy).

leo, how do you see the Israeli government's reaction?

[nemafakei]

I am on neither side. But the solution is to send into Palaestine (preferably from a remote country like Britain) large numbers of policemen, armed with only a truncheon, handcuffs, and so on. They must take great care not to look at all military, but should look as unconvincing as possible (with proper 1960's uniform, and a silver watch by which to be asked of the time). They must be exeedingly friendly, and they will not ge involved in politics at all, but they will caution and arrest people for conventional crimes only.

Anyone causing a fight, or brandishing arms openly should be arrested (in a civil fashion) - this includes Israeli troops (and military vehicles), Palaestinian terrorists or anyone else. The IDF and the major terrorist groups may be sent a polite note to cease hostilities.

It will then be declared that peace has broken out.

[leo]

I agree that the terror part is a serious problem: it doesn't stop. But there's worst: the state of Israel seems to bring more "terror" than the other side, killing 3 times what the terrorist are killing, destroying incredibly more. So we can't just say "it's the fault of the terrorists" since the Israeli state is even more wreckless. And it could get dramatically worst: they didn't signed the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and are suspected of having bio-chemicals (is it true or not, I can't conclude).

Is it the fault of the population? No on both sides, as in many other wars. You only need some fanatics and a government with some interests. The more bloody it gets, the more damn fanatics (terrorists) there will be (until, of course, they are all restrained into one area with no ressources to defend: a destroyed place, no economy).

leo, how do you see the Israeli government's reaction?

Your opinions based on body count? We are killing more because we are stronger. If u will look at most of the Palestinians victims u will see that most of them are terrorists or their supporters. Israeli army NERVER shoots at people just because they are Arabs.

I see the Israeli response as too weak. If u will look at any statistics u will see that the Israeli army is one of the most humanists. Do u know how many rules there are before a soldier shoots? Do u know that every mistake he does he is going to face a trial? Did u know that before an Israeli soldier shoots he has to shoot one time to air, then he has to shout on the person to stop. And only when it doesn’t work and the Arab is pulling a gun then he can shoot (and still he’s requested to shoot on the legs). Do u know how many soldiers we lost because we are trying to make the lost at their just as little as we can.

Most of the European countries are opposing when we are killing TERRORISTS from choppers. Tell me, what is wrong with that? Tell me what is wrong with defending our children? Remember, we may be stronger but we never be the first to initiate the clashes, all we do is respond.

Believe me, no country, especially in Europe, would react like Israel during a similar situation.

[Edric O]

Whose side am I on? I am on the side of the innocent victims, both Israeli and Palestinian, who get killed for no other reason than because they happened to be in the wrong place and the wrong time.

What is the solution to this conflict? The same solution that could eliminate every terrorist threat in the world: Give the poor, desperate and hungry people of the region a decent life. If the Palestinian people will have more to lose and less to gain by fighting against Israel, the terrorists' supply of manpower will dry up.

Edit: And if it was up to me, I'd say you should also arrest both Arafat and Sharon and have them executed side by side for crimes against humanity.

[Egeides]

leo, my opinion is not on body count: you took only one part of what I wrote. Do you know that some KIDS are in your prisons and are stuck there? (ex: http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2003/04/17/palestinian_minors/index.html)That torture is regular?

I believe that our differences of opinion are largely based on data: we got different information, you from your news and me from elsewhere (Red Cross, Amnesty International, Chomsky...). It is said that the Israeli government, while not having this as an official position, IS shooting first: it even considers young manifestants throwing rocks as worth shooting. Palestinian journalists can hardly do their job because they are shot before the others!

From what I know, your government is lying when it says it doesn't attack civils. Most deaths are not terrorists. One attack was done on an Internet provider, when it was the last way to go to school: why did they went there and bombed the place? This is only one case, but there are hundreds. I don't believe your leaders are arming only to terrorists: they voluntarily wreck the Palestinian economy, kill civilians. And why do they take their territory: it makes matters worst! Your leaders are puting even more people against your children; this is not protecting them.

Make a search on "Israel" at www.amnesty.org and then you will see why I may believe your government is lying to you. My sources aren't governmental.

[leo]

leo, my opinion is not on body count: you took only one part of what I wrote. Do you know that some KIDS are in your prisons and are stuck there? (ex: http://www.salon.com/news/wire/2003/04/17/palestinian_minors/index.html)That torture is regular?

I believe that our differences of opinion are largely based on data: we got different information, you from your news and me from elsewhere (Red Cross, Amnesty International, Chomsky...). It is said that the Israeli government, while not having this as an official position, IS shooting first: it even considers young manifestants throwing rocks as worth shooting. Palestinian journalists can hardly do their job because they are shot before the others!

From what I know, your government is lying when it says it doesn't attack civils. Most deaths are not terrorists. One attack was done on an Internet provider, when it was the last way to go to school: why did they went there and bombed the place? This is only one case, but there are hundreds. I don't believe your leaders are arming only to terrorists: they voluntarily wreck the Palestinian economy, kill civilians. And why do they take their territory: it makes matters worst! Your leaders are puting even more people against your children; this is not protecting them.

Make a search on "Israel" at www.amnesty.org and then you will see why I may believe your government is lying to you. My sources aren't governmental.

There is a little differnce between us, first of all I watch news not only in Israeli channels but also in bbc, cnn, sky news, fox news etc...

Second, i live it. that's not that i sit here in my home and cheering my army. my brother is a soldier now. I'm gonna be a soldier in a year. You have no idea what he's beeing aksed to do. no army in the world, facing a situation like that will be as gentle as Israel's.

Ow and btw,

It's been proved that organizations like amnesty and un are not very Neutral as they suposed to be and I'm not saying it cause i dont like their decisions. there been an issue about it.

[SurlyPIG]

If it were Israelis making terrorist attacks, fighting for their "homeland," and it were the Palestinians with the military and the control, I'd bet anything that the Palestinians would kill or drive out every last Israeli (but only the non-Musilms of course). And the only reason they would stop there is because they'd have nowhere else to go. This is why ideas like Nema's, which sound nice, would never work. All that would do is focus some of the Palestinian hatred on whichever country/body those policemen come from. Whether or not Palestianian civillians support terrorism, almost all of them support the cause of the terrorism, which is retreiving "their" land from the Jews. And not just some of it, no no. They would not stop at a reasonable border.

The interests and actions of both sides are inhumane, selfish, and unreasonable. The distinction between the two is that Palestine's motivations are religious. Some people says it's not about religion anymore. That's trash. Of course it's about religion. I mean the 2nd largest Palestinian terrorist group is even called Islamic Jihad. It doesn't get anymore religious than that. If you go to Israel, you have rights. There are multiple faiths in Israel. Primarily Jews, but there are Christians, Muslims, and there are atheists. The country itself is secular. Go to virtually any Muslim country (save Turkey, perhaps) and you have no rights if you aren't Muslim (especially if you're a woman).

If Israel was conquered by Palestine, do you think Palestine would be secular? Do you think they would allow Synagogues, Churches, and Temples in Palestine? Fat chance. Moral technicalities aside, which nation would realistically make the best country out of the land that is now Israel's?

[ordos45]

Neither side is blameless of course, but here is a lesson in propaganda.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Oracle/2120/Rachel_Corrie_Propaganda.html

Pay special attention to the case of young Tuvia, who was reported by the NY Times as Palestinian, and the photo of him bloodied with an IDF officer standing over him. That young man is actually an American Jew,, the IDF officer shown to be "brutalizing" him, saved his life.

[Edric O]

If it were Israelis making terrorist attacks, fighting for their "homeland," and it were the Palestinians with the military and the control, I'd bet anything that the Palestinians would kill or drive out every last Israeli (but only the non-Musilms of course). And the only reason they would stop there is because they'd have nowhere else to go.

Why don't you stop making ridiculous assumptions and sweeping generalizations about an entire people? You love to accuse me of generalizing, but you seem to have no problem with speaking about the Palestinians as if they have some sort of hive mind.

Whether or not Palestianian civillians support terrorism, almost all of them support the cause of the terrorism, which is retreiving "their" land from the Jews.

Well, excuse me, but it IS technically their land.

And not just some of it, no no. They would not stop at a reasonable border.

Oh, and it seems to you that the Israelis are stopping at a reasonable border?

If Israel was conquered by Palestine, do you think Palestine would be secular? Do you think they would allow Synagogues, Churches, and Temples in Palestine? Fat chance. Moral technicalities aside, which nation would realistically make the best country out of the land that is now Israel's?

Both nations, united and working together.

A nation is not an anthill, Ace. You cannot judge millions of people by the actions of their leaders, or the actions of those who claim to represent them. As much as you capitalists hate to admit it, the people have minds of their own.

[Egeides]

leo,

1- I'm sure that a difference is that you're living it, but this wont make you right or wrong, it will only make so that you may get some details I don't have here. Arab civils are also living it, and it doesn't make them right by default.

2- And when you say you listen to BBC and so on, frankly, it's like listening 7 times the same news with little differences......

So you didn't gave an argument... but I'm sure that listening to these networks isn't really the way to get alot of contrarian views. They're the same system that was reporting colonialism as beautiful in the 19th century. Could you give me more details about Amnesty and others that you say are biased? I see the TV networks and others as much more biased, personally. Anyway, do you disagree that there's torture, the children in prison, bio-chemical and atomic weapons, lot more of destruction, lot more of civilian kills?

[Wolf]

A Collection of Musings on Israel - Wolfwiz

Remember, this summer, the terror groups in Israel promised that there would be no more attacks. Then there were attacks, then there was IDF retaliation. Then things escalated, and here we are. Why? Because either the situation is out of Arafat's control, or he isn't serious about keeping "peace". Meanwhile, Sharon has no compunction against bombing the enemy.

Edric, though your resolution of giving the poor and destitute decent lives sounds like the right thing to do (and IS, from a long-run point of view), it can no longer solve these issues. Hate is something that transcends quality of life. For the next generation, at least, there will be killing. You have to wonder if the leaderships of either side really wants peace. We all know that there is a minority present in both countries that does not.

What's the right thing to do? For both sides to stop killing each other and trust one another. I remember when this one guy, a reporter I think, got a bunch of Israeli children and Palestinian children to play with each other for a day. There was no animosity.

Why did it fail? Why?

What's more likely is that this devolves into warfare. A war which Israel will win, but win with a great cost. The IDF has more (and better) men, guns, tanks, gunships, and some believe they even have WMDs. If I were a Palestinian, I would be a very peaceful one. (Actually, the IDF military advantage comes largely from US training and technology. With the field salvage from Iraq, there's going to be US tech for EVERYONE sooner or later.)

Remember, Israel pushed to the Sinai a generation ago (and, if you can remember that far, Sharon wanted to take Cairo. They could have, too).

I allude to a joke back in the 70s about an Egyptian armor division. One of the Egyptians sighted an Israeli soldier and moved forces in to attack him. The joke ends with the division running back with 50% losses and the general exclaiming "What happened!?". The division commander replies. "He had a friend!"

Actually, what I think is the MOST LIKELY and BEST POSSIBLE solution is that, within two or three years, the bombings become so intense and the retaliatory action so destructive that both sides realize that the cost of fighting just outweighs everything else, and they give up. Not out of a desire for peace, but out of an inability to continue fighting and the loss of will to fight. It's sad that it has to come to this, but I think it's the most likely. (EDIT; look at the bright side, suicide bombings are one-use only. Also, I apologize for saying this, it seems inconsiderate. I realize that many have strong felings about this, and it is inappropriate to make light of it. Truly, however, there is a bright side to everything.)

To everyone in Israel right now, regardless of nationality (my old journalism teacher, an American, frequently visist Israel to see old friends of his there. You see, we are ALL in this together), race, religion, or creed -- I wish you long life, happiness, and peace.

I am sorry.

[SurlyPIG]

Why don't you stop making ridiculous assumptions and sweeping generalizations about an entire people? You love to accuse me of generalizing, but you seem to have no problem with speaking about the Palestinians as if they have some sort of hive mind.

Actually, the generalization I made is based on statisics. When polled, most Palestinians say they are against the suicide bombings but support their cause.

Well, excuse me, but it IS technically their land.

What makes it their land? It belonged to the Jews hundreds of years before Islam existed. It is no more Palestine's land because it was theirs a century ago than it is Israel's land because it was theirs a millenium ago. The past cannot be altered and like it or not, Israel is there now. What would you expect them to do? Pack their bags and disperse back into the countries in which they were treated worse than animals a few decades ago?

Oh, and it seems to you that the Israelis are stopping at a reasonable border?

Looks reasonable enough to me. Look at the border on a map. Israelis have the coastline, and an inland area that juts out to just include Jerusalem, and it doesn't really serve the interests of the world to have the holy birthplace of three major religions controlled by people who are intolerant of other faiths.

And if it seems a little unreasonable to you, don't you think that the Jews had a right to be a little unreasonable after the sh*t they went through in WWII? They lived peacefully, intermixed with other faiths, and were passive towards the war, until they were subjected to absolutely horrific brutality for no reason at all. If I'd gone through that, yeah, I'd be a little unreasonable.

Both nations, united and working together. [would be the best solution]

I tend to agree, but that doesn't look very likely, does it?

A nation is not an anthill, Ace. You cannot judge millions of people by the actions of their leaders, or the actions of those who claim to represent them. As much as you capitalists hate to admit it, the people have minds of their own.

Edric, I'm getting a little sick of you slapping a label on my forehead and vomiting a stomach-full of rhetoric in my ear. I am no more a capitalist (the way you see them) than a libertarian is an anarchist, and I don't think I'm the only one who's a tad irritated that you seem to need to bring economic arguments into virtually every thread.

[leo]

leo,

1- I'm sure that a difference is that you're living it, but this wont make you right or wrong, it will only make so that you may get some details I don't have here. Arab civils are also living it, and it doesn't make them right by default.

2- And when you say you listen to BBC and so on, frankly, it's like listening 7 times the same news with little differences......

So you didn't gave an argument... but I'm sure that listening to these networks isn't really the way to get alot of contrarian views. They're the same system that was reporting colonialism as beautiful in the 19th century. Could you give me more details about Amnesty and others that you say are biased? I see the TV networks and others as much more biased, personally. Anyway, do you disagree that there's torture, the children in prison, bio-chemical and atomic weapons, lot more of destruction, lot more of civilian kills?

Isn’t it’s this UN that blamed Zionism for racism (big LMAO)? Isn’t it’s this UN that 3 of his soldiers were watching from the side while 3 of our soldiers were being kidnapped in the Israeli-Lebanon border? and after it they even forbidden to show the tape that recorded it. If not the US all the decisions in the UN would be against us. And about Amnesty, its special agent to this region was accused several times with anti-Semitism.

[Dude_Doc]

Did u know that before an Israeli soldier shoots he has to shoot one time to air, then he has to shout on the person to stop. And only when it doesn’t works and the Arab is pulling a gone then he can shoot (and still he’s requested to shoot on the legs).

That is the EXACT law of the police here in Sweden. If they disobey this one, then the robbers, rapists, murdurers and every other scum will run free, even PAID for being shot in the leg. It is the policeman who will go to jail. Still surpised why our foreign minister got stabbed? ...

[Egeides]

You talked about UN: I said Red Cross, Amnesty and such, which are not official political entities. For your racism thing, perhaps some zionists were promoting a different treatment for non-Jews, I don't know. All your examples are about the UN, so it's not about what I said. About anti-semitism: WHO said they were anti-semitism? Your government also said that those that were against what Israel is doing were anti-semitists, no? I believe that they were maybe said anti-semitist because of that they sided with Arabs. But they still need to be showed wrong even if you expect them to be wrong.

And I repeat what I wrote:

So you didn't gave an argument... but I'm sure that listening to these networks isn't really the way to get alot of contrarian views. They're the same system that was reporting colonialism as beautiful in the 19th century. Could you give me more details about Amnesty and others that you say are biased? I see the TV networks and others as much more biased, personally. Anyway, do you disagree that there's torture, the children in prison, bio-chemical and atomic weapons, lot more of destruction, lot more of civilian kills?

[leo]

You talked about UN: I said Red Cross, Amnesty and such, which are not official political entities. For your racism thing, perhaps some zionists were promoting a different treatment for non-Jews, I don't know. All your examples are about the UN, so it's not about what I said. About anti-semitism: WHO said they were anti-semitism? Your government also said that those that were against what Israel is doing were anti-semitists, no? I believe that they were maybe said anti-semitist because of that they sided with Arabs. But they still need to be showed wrong even if you expect them to be wrong.

And I repeat what I wrote:

So you didn't gave an argument... but I'm sure that listening to these networks isn't really the way to get alot of contrarian views. They're the same system that was reporting colonialism as beautiful in the 19th century. Could you give me more details about Amnesty and others that you say are biased? I see the TV networks and others as much more biased, personally. Anyway, do you disagree that there's torture, the children in prison, bio-chemical and atomic weapons, lot more of destruction, lot more of civilian kills?

There is an atomic bomb in Israel, so what? Many western countries have it too. Interesting how many Arabian countries would attacked us if we didn’t had it. The last time it was over 4 countries. And bio-chemical weapons almost every country has. So? It’s not that we are using it. But I’m sure that if such weapon will fall into any Palestinian resisting group it will be immediately used against children, women or whoever it will be without blinking.

About the torture. First of all how do u know that? Did u ever serve in Israel secret service? Second, children are not being tortured. However terrorists may be being tortured, there is no other option. How do u want to save innocent lives? Maybe ask the terrorist politely to tell where are his friends? And that’s of course to save some Jews that he likes so much. Yep it will work. Tell me are u an idiot? Show me one country that won’t use an excessive force against terrorists in order to save innocent lives?

About my knowledge of what happening in this area. First of all With all the respect as I mentioned before I live it. It means that I see it in my eyes, my brother is a soldier and I’m gonna be one soon. What news can be better than that? Second, I mentioned almost every news station I know. What else do u want? And just something for ur knowledge. Israeli media is considered to be one of the most neutral. I hope u could understand Hebrew. If u just could see how our reporters interview our own politicians. It’s more like a political lynch than an interview. U have no idea how much a soldier here afraid of pulling his gun, even during a very dangerous situation

[ordos45]

There is an atomic bomb in Israel, so what? Many western countries have it too. Interesting how many Arabian countries would attacked us if we didn’t had it. The last time it was over 4 countries. And bio-chemical weapons almost every country has. So? It’s not that we are using it. But I’m sure that if such weapon will fall into any Palestinian resisting group it will be immediately used against children, women or whoever it will be without blinking.

Yes many western states have it, but officially your nation has never admitted to having it (even though its common knowledge). The closest Israel came to saying officially it has nuclear armanents, was one former PM on television saying Israel had been considering the nuclear option since the 1950s.

And no, I never want to see Hamas or Islamic Jihad armed with biological, chemical, or nuclear weapons.

4 countries? Was it the Yom Kippur War of 1973?

If u just could see how our reporters interview our own politicians. It’s more like a political lynch than an interview.

Please send them over here. I usually get to see nonstop political rear kissing in interviews.

No offense, but I don't think I'd ever visit Israel. I don't think I could handle walking down a crowded street worrying about some suicide bomber or car bomb exploding next to me, or some gunmen starting to fire into the crowds, or missiles falling from the sky. That's something most of the U.S. doesn't realize, we really don't have to face the fear of suicide bombers at the mall or such...and we're lucky not to.

[leo]

There is an atomic bomb in Israel, so what? Many western countries have it too. Interesting how many Arabian countries would attacked us if we didn’t had it. The last time it was over 4 countries. And bio-chemical weapons almost every country has. So? It’s not that we are using it. But I’m sure that if such weapon will fall into any Palestinian resisting group it will be immediately used against children, women or whoever it will be without blinking.

Yes many western states have it, but officially your nation has never admitted to having it (even though its common knowledge). The closest Israel came to saying officially it has nuclear armanents, was one former PM on television saying Israel had been considering the nuclear option since the 1950s.

And no, I never want to see Hamas or Islamic Jihad armed with biological, chemical, or nuclear weapons.

4 countries? Was it the Yom Kippur War of 1973?

If u just could see how our reporters interview our own politicians. It’s more like a political lynch than an interview.

Please send them over here. I usually get to see nonstop political rear kissing in interviews.

No offense, but I don't think I'd ever visit Israel. I don't think I could handle walking down a crowded street worrying about some suicide bomber or car bomb exploding next to me, or some gunmen starting to fire into the crowds, or missiles falling from the sky. That's something most of the U.S. doesn't realize, we really don't have to face the fear of suicide bombers at the mall or such...and we're lucky not to.

After we will admit what is gonna change? We also have nuclear submarines. So?

In Yom Kippur war we already had an atomic bomb. I meant to the time when we didn’t had it. Like in the War of independence when we were attacked by 5 countries with the support of other 5.

It’s ok, offence non taken. You are not the only one who feels that way. But than again neglecting the situation is not a good option either. Isn’t it what the US did in WW2?

P.S

Did u forget the October 11th? It seems that u and I are in the same boat. Did u forget US’s response after it? I believe 2 countries were totally conquered (I support what US did). I’m fascinated to see what reaction the world will have towards Israel If we will do the same thing to Palestine. After all we are having these little 11th’s every week and it’s been proven many times that the Palestinian leadership is supporting terror.

[ordos45]

After we will admit what is gonna change? We also have nuclear submarines. So?

Good point, probably only thing to happen would be a condemnation by the UN.

It’s ok, offence non taken. You are not the only one who feels that way. But than again neglecting the situation is not a good option either. Isn’t it what the US did in WW2?

Yeah, and we payed for it with the lives of over 2000 military personell, and with most of the Pacific Fleet being lost at anchor. We have a bad habit of trying to stay nuetral until someone gives us a bloody nose.

Did u forget the October 11th? It seems that u and I are in the same boat. Did u forget US’s response after it? I believe 2 countries were totally conquered (I support what US did). I’m fascinated to see what reaction the world will have towards Israel If we will do the same thing to Palestine. After all we are having these little 11th’s every week and it’s been proven many times that the Palestinian leadership is supporting terror.

Not really. I remember it quite well, but it was one incident. Suicide bombings though, that hasn't started happening. We've been hit once at home, the rest of it like suicide bombings are on US citizens and consulates overseas.

I don't want to know what will happen the moment a suicide bomber blows himself up in a theme park, or a crowded mall, or outside a school. That would really strike fear into the USA's common citizen, not knowing if you were safe just going to some place on vacation.

Look at our sniper shootings last year around the D.C. area, how much panic they caused. People were afraid to be out alone, or pump their gas. The thing terrorists don't understand is, while grand attacks make us roar enraged, its the small pinpricks at home that make us nervous. You have random people being picked off by snipers and we get afraid, because it the next target could be anyone, anywhere, not just people in a big skyscraper or military building.

[Egeides]

leo, I do not believe that the Israel state does "the same thing" as terrorist, but worst. I know you're on the field, but throughout history people on the field didn't always knew everything. You have more data, perhaps, but you don't necessarily have everything neither. When I was talking about atomic, I was saying that the Non-proliferation treaty was not signed.

1-

Torture is necessary? Researches show that it doesn't really make people say truth, but it does make them say what you want them to say, just so that you stop torturing them. Children in prison: you're FOR that? Without trial?

2-

And what about all the destruction, all that's against civilians? Do you believe that most damage (deaths + destruction) isn't against civilians?

3-

What do you think about deciding to destroy people's house and then let Israel citizens take the place? For? Against? It is espescially not honnest from the government when the place was taken "for archeological researches" and a few months later is given to Israel citizens...

If you want my sources, get Fateful Triangle from Noam Chomsky (I don't want to lurn that he's "anti-whattever what", I want to know why he's wrong: anyway, each researcher talking about Israel was said "anti-semit" as each one going against USA was said "anti-american". On the other side, those going against France were probably said "anti-French", etc etc). Another source is Amnesty International (they have reporters, etc etc.).