Enviromentalists

[Caid Ivik]

Cars have so much good use... Buy one on gas, if you don't like smell of oil smoke. I don't like it either. My father had a Trabant (it has 2-period engine, just for you to know), and stink from its smoke is making me trauma still today altough he sold it about 15 years ago ;D

[Dante]

I love the smell of cars. But it isn't good for me, or the enviroment, or for whoever's buying the fuel.

[Edric O]

Well, I agree with you, Dust Scout! We should change a lot of things about our lifestyle and our industry, not just cars. Unfortunetaly, that's never going to happen. Realistically speaking, the costs to the economy would be so great that living standards would plummet. And people will never accept such a sacrifice, even though it's for their own good in the long run.

We're only going to stop using fossil fuels when we run out of them, and then we're going to have a massive worldwide depression because no one would think they fossil fuels could *possibly* run out...

And call me weird, but for some reason I always feel repulsed by people who cut down trees, even though I have no problem with those who hunt animals.

[Scrinlord]

Dust Scout, what is the difference between breeding animals for consumption, and hunting them? When you breed them and keep them on a farm, that is more cruel to them than hunting them in the wild.

And as not for insects, what if your house is infested with termites, or you have some other kind of bug problems(killer bees, spiders, etc) will you just let them go about and do whatever you want, possible endangering you or your family?

And as for trees, I am not opposed to lumber in general, as long as it is done with some reason. I think that lumber companies should only be able to harvest a certain amount, and they have to replant what they cut down.

[sneezer3]

I don't like most enviromentalists. Don't get me wrong, protecting the environment is a good thing. But most of them go way to far. killing any animals? (which would die anyway sometime.)

I can understand some laws for being cruel to an animal or it suffering. But i like to have my chicken to!

I don't think cars will be much of a problem. Bush is hopeing in the future to have if i remember the chemical correctly, hydrogen powered cars. You would have to be a little bit more careful with it. its But it would be a lot better. Bush is putting a little of our money to fund the research.

endangered species? I wouldn't mind if they took steps to keep one around. assumeing of course its needed or helps somthing some how or is liked. But they've taken people property before. and that i'm not for. I don't care it its the only kind of ant or bear on the planet. I don't believe they have a right to do that.

[Caid Ivik]

We're only going to stop using fossil fuels when we run out of them, and then we're going to have a massive worldwide depression because no one would think they fossil fuels could *possibly* run out...

This is the most important thing. But as I see it will come in about a half-century, it will be cause of OUR generation to make preparements. And replacements, as well.

[Dante]

Bush rejected the Kyoto agreement didn't he? I can't see him putting any more money into renewable or enviromentally friendly fuels than he has to. After all, his family is oil-based, it's it?

endangered species? I wouldn't mind if they took steps to keep one around. assumeing of course its needed or helps somthing some how or is liked. But they've taken people property before. and that i'm not for. I don't care it its the only kind of ant or bear on the planet. I don't believe they have a right to do that.

1) It doesn't have to be helpful.

2) I do believe they have a right to do that. People are less important.

Dust Scout, what is the difference between breeding animals for consumption, and hunting them? When you breed them and keep them on a farm, that is more cruel to them than hunting them in the wild.

And as not for insects, what if your house is infested with termites, or you have some other kind of bug problems(killer bees, spiders, etc) will you just let them go about and do whatever you want, possible endangering you or your family?

Animals that are kept for food are animals that are kept for food. Animals in the wild are animals in the wild. Just because they were once the same thing doesn't mean that they still are.

And of course I wouldn't just stand there idle! I'd move.

[emprworm]

an extremist environmentalist would rather see 1 million people "subtracted" off the face of the earth, if it meant cutting down a few trees in a forest.

so long as they themselves aren't part of that 1 million, of course! :D

[Anathema]

Sneezer, hydrogen fueled cars are not necessarily more friendly to the environment then petrol fueled cars. Hydrogen isn't found in pure quantities in nature and has to be produced, and for that you need power. Currently we produce most of our energy by burning fossil fuels, so it wouldn't make any difference.

[Edric O]

A rational environmentalist sees the obvious problem with the already far too large number of humans on the planet, and the exponential growth rate of our population. And he also sees that there is only one rational solution: birth control.

Unless we want to die like a colony of bacteria trapped in a jar, we have to stop breeding at the insane rate we're breeding now.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

I wouldn't be suprised if a enviromentalist get punched in the face or worse.

If someone walks to your pregnant wife and said: "Ma'am, we're going to kill that baby because we can't have more people."

Some animal species also had birth problems, but that's natural in the world.

The human race is expanding with each day, if space travel is possible and terraforming; It would solve our problems.

I've heard that so called 'furries' exists out of 54% of the Enviromentalists.

For those who are unfamiliar with the word 'furry' let me explain.

Furry: Anthro Animal, probably a fox, wolf, deer, owl, dragon, monkey.

People have a fantasy with animals, they think they have a second personality mentioned above and pretends to be a furry on the internet in chat rooms.

Most of them even hate humans even though they are human themselves.

If you want more info, just type the word 'furry' in google or a other search engine

[Acriku]

If someone walks to your pregnant wife and said: "Ma'am, we're going to kill that baby because we can't have more people."

If it is against the law, which was rationally and justly passed to maintain our environment, then I would agree to the abortion (if I was the father, I'd never have done it in the first place). Appealing to emotion every time we see a poor woman with an enlarged abdomen during a crisis like that will ruin us all.

[Dante]

an extremist environmentalist would rather see 1 million people "subtracted" off the face of the earth, if it meant cutting down a few trees in a forest.

so long as they themselves aren't part of that 1 million, of course! :D

Of course. And your point is?

Yes Edric! Birth control is the answer! We'll be ready to go into space once we've stopped mucking up our planet. If we go now we'll just muck up everywhere else. Personally I think the chinese have the answer. One child per family, or you pay a fine! Good idea, no?

What's that about furries? I'm not sure I understand. Personally I like spiders. And bats. And snakes. And foxes. And lizards. [list goes on] But kittens are so cuuuuuute!

I can't say I'm opposed to removing potential children (abortion). But once they've reached a certain stage it's really too late. Euthanasia is also an idea. Statistics show that by 2050 old people will outnumber the young for the first time ever. This means that more people will be caring for them. Don't people get it?! Humans aren't meant to live forever! Dying is natural!

So what's wrong with us... speeding up the process a bit to help those less well off? Like endangered species.

...

...

Or kittens. :)

[Edric O]

I wouldn't be suprised if a enviromentalist get punched in the face or worse.

If someone walks to your pregnant wife and said: "Ma'am, we're going to kill that baby because we can't have more people."

News flash: Condoms and contraceptive pills have been invented...

I generally hate everything about the Chinese government (not only are they filthy capitalists, but they have the nerve to call themselves "communists"! This makes them WORSE than all the other capitalists, who at least have the decency to be honest), but I have to admit that they're dealing with the population problem admirabely. The one-child-per-family law should be adopted by more countries. India needs it most of all.

[Anathema]

I read somewhere that in practice, it's easy to bribe goverment officials in China to be able to keep 2 kids.

In some countries (Netherlands and USA at least, don't know about others) families would get aid from the government in form of money if they have children so they can support them, and for the second kid you'd get more money then for the first, and so on. I think that this monetairy aid should be stopped the moment a family has more then 3 kids, that should discourage them.

[Acriku]

After each child, the money becomes significantly less and less, so it is hardly a motive to get more kids.

[Gobalopper]

Overpopulation isn't a problem in most first world countries and in some its the opposite, not enough people are having children.

[Edric O]

True. First world countries have a different problem: over-consumption. We irrationally spend huge amounts of resources on trivial things. In fact, the first 20% of the Earth's population uses up 80% of its resources. That's why 3rd world countries can NEVER reach our standards of living. The Earth would need to have 4 times more resources than it has now.

[SurlyPIG]

Actually China's overpopulation laws are pretty dumb. The one child per family law applies only to urban China, and rural China is growing at such a rate that the country as a whole is still growing. Rural families have an average of like 8.7 kids or something ridiculous like that (even more than Mormons or Muslims) to support the farms, but when they grow up, only the oldest male, typically, receives the farm and the rest have to move into the city and each one of them pairs up and has another kid and the cycle repeats while their big brother and his new wife shags out nine kids back on the farm. They need to apply the law universally and give some sort of incentive for city people to move to the countryside to sustain the farms.

The societal implications of the laws are sometimes sick, though. China is somewhat sexist and male children are valued more than females which causes a whole new set of problems for baby girls, and since the parents often only have one shot at 'continuing the family legacy' there is a huge amount of pressure on the one kid and that often leads to abuse. The suicide rate is ridiculously high as well.

[Caid Ivik]

Overpopulation is a problem. But it is immoral to solve it. You just can't ban women to have children when they want, it's their natural law and, also, sense of their big part, as well. What should we support isn't slowering population growth, but to teach the mothers and fathers how to raise and educate them. For example, Gypsies in Europe live isolated from whites and birth children only for state's support, without caring on them. That must be changed, then let they raise how many kids they want.

[Acriku]

So, we should let our world die and be used up because it is immoral to do anything about it? Be rational Caid.

[Anathema]

I think he meant that if we close our eyes and look the other way God will solve it for us.

[Dunenewt]

Keep dreaming...

[Sardauker-Kirov]

If it is against the law, then yes. At the other hand I also hate people that forces people 'not' to abort the child, while't is your own decision.

Acriku, the planet is owned by no one and people are ALLOWED to have a child since it's a right that no one can take away, unless if the government forces them to take the baby away which they probably do.

On the other side, overpopulation is very bad for the country and can cause economic stress.

How the people can get so many childs is probably they're doing alot of 'sport' on women. ;D

Anyways, overpopulation is 'predictable'

Just compare it with other animals that is rapidly reproducting.

And if you want China's population to be cut down, you might as well kill all their children.

[Acriku]

The government is meant to serve the people. If the civilization is in danger, the government must take measures to stabilize that civilization and remove the danger. Failure to do so is treason to the human race.