Should gay mariages be legal?

[Dante]

I don't see anything in Nav's quotes that could refer to homosexuality other than the one about two men in one bed, which is then repeated with the two women and the people in the field, making a specific reference difficult to understand. I think that's just coincidence.

Now we find out if I'm on Nav's block list or not...

[number6]

Well that's the whole problem with the bible in the first place, it is way too open to interpretation. I personally have no problems with people being homosexual. I do have a problem with trying to legitimize the union of 2 same sex people. I think the gay community is getting a little out of hand with what they want the heterosexual community to accept as being normal. I don't want my children taught about homosexuals at schools, but the gay lobby here in the US is trying to force such nonsense at public schools. Like I said, I don't care if people are practicing homosexuals. I just don't want to know that they are. I guess it comes down to what is normal for a society and what is not. Up to this point in history, and for the forseeable future, gay marriages are not considered normal behaviour.

[Super-ness]

hay uh i heard about this gay arch bishop, people werent too happy though

[Anathema]

Nav hasn't answered my question yet, but I'm not surprised.

Nav, suppose you're presented with the opportunity of "executing" a gay person without any risk of getting caught, would you pull the trigger? Or are you just a brat with a big mouth?

Nowhere in the bible did it say that the entire city of Sodom consisted of homosexuals or that it was all they practiced. That said, I'd like to see some of the other quotes from "all over the new testament" concerning homosexuality because I recall none.

[Dante]

hay uh i heard about this gay arch bishop, people werent too happy though

There was one in England somewhere... he had to resign due to pressure though. Hmph.

Number6, I can understand your point of view, trust me on this. But I don't share it. I firmly believe that the existance of homosexuality as a perfectly normal way of living should be taught in schools. I don't have any statistics (I'm too lazy to go find my little books) but I know that a vast percentage of adolecants go through some very confusing and distressing periods when they don't know what they are or who they are. Some of them will have been taught religiously to think that they are 'abomination' and thus become exceedingly depressed. After all, wouldn't you?

Some of them/us have no idea that there is even an option. In my own experience I have been attracted to males for pretty much my whole life; due to society's silence on the matter I didn't even realise this until I was 13, and it was three months before I could even puts words to it. It was very confusing, very depressing, and very harsh, to find out that because of how you feel a large proportion of the world is biased to hate you. Those years were all of those things and I was lucky to get off so lightly.

Some people out there commit suicide because of it. They kill themselves because of the pressure around them. Because of the unfeeling (and sometimes unknowning) cruelty of people who want to keep the matter silent, boxed up and removed from their lives.

If people do not know, are not taught early on, in schools, they will suffer.

Marriage has been dealt with in above posts. So long as it isn't religiously-orientated I think it's fine. Nobody has the right to control how 'loud' other people are about who they are. If they don't like it, they'll just have to ignore it. No offence.

[number6]

Nobody has the right to control how 'loud' other people are about who they are.

If it offends other people the society will ostricize the deviants. I will purposely avoid openly gay people because they make me uncomfortable. I think the gay rights people want to force people to not think for themselves which is what I am more against than their sexual preference. For better or for worse that uncomfortable feeling is part of who I am and I get angry when people try and tell me I am wrong for that. Deep down in my heart I feel that homosexuality is wrong and that's why I get that uncomfortable feeling. It's the same feeling I get when I see a racist person spreading hate or when you see a seriel killer on TV. For me the louder the gay community gets the more lost their cause is. They have become another special interest group that wants to force their way of life on the public. That's wrong and it is hurting gay people who just want to live their life and be happy.

About the gay education bit. It's fine to have a point of view on something. I have a different point of view on this matter and don't want people to push their point of view on me or my family. Like I said, what people do in the privacy of their own homes is their business not mine. When they start invading my privacy is when I get upset. I am sorry to say, but teaching homosexualtiy has nothing to do with an adolescence education. How many kids are acutally gay? Statistically they are the minority and the good of the many outweigh the good of the few. I know there are people who struggle because they are gay in a straight world, but why should all the heterosexual kids have to be taught this stuff? It's wrong because it is a form of propaganda aimed at young minds that are easily influenced and I think it will confuse the majority while helping very few of the children that the message is intended for. It's all part of the political correctness that our society loves to embrace these days and it is starting to irritate me.

[Gobalopper]

Schools should teach kids that they shouldn't discriminate against anyone and as number6 said there is no reason to force the moral values of a small but outspoken group into public schools. If its a private school then I don't mind as much since its the parents choice to put their children there.

And about losing their cause, a comical look at gay-pride parades:

http://www.theonion.com/onion3715/gay_pride_parade.html

[Dante]

What's so special about schools and children anyway? The adults have to deal with it, and thus sooner or later the children will. Best to help the gay ones and prepare the straight ones for the future.

And about that link Gob, rather funny. :)

If only most people were intelligent enough to realise that it's ironic...

[quoudam72]

That is ironic and sad they have no one to blame except themselves for that demise. They could have left the costumes for the "ballroom shows" this is what leads them (homosexuals) to be "closeted" by society at large.

[mechadragon]

That is ironic and sad they have no one to blame except themselves for that demise. They could have left the costumes for the "ballroom shows" this is what leads them (homosexuals) to be "closeted" by society at large.

Point to consider:

This is an annual parade. Considering they do the very same thing each year, why does this year standout as offensive?

[quoudam72]

I have no idea I have never attended any gay pride parades. I have seen photos before but nothing as I have seen in the article that Gob posted a link about. Most of the photos I have ever seen had men dressed as women and male couples expressing themselves but nothing as these with the leather suits with the @$$ out in public.

[ordos45]

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

Okay, the official Vatican statement on the matter, from the official Vatican site.

This lovely 41kb essay is entitled CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS

TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION

TO UNIONS

BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS. It was capitalized from where I copied the title.

Sorry to take this to the top, but this seemed the most appropriate topic for it.

(Sorry to increase page size like this, but when I tried to cut it smaller and use the url tags, it messed up the coding of the link.)

[Dante]

Letter to a newspaper from Sharon Underwood:

Many letters have been sent to the Valley News concerning the homosexual menace in Vermont. I am the mother of a gay son and I've taken enough from you good people. I'm tired of your foolish rhetoric about the "homosexual agenda" and your allegations that accepting homosexuality is the same thing as advocating sex with children. You are cruel and ignorant. You have been robbing me of the joys of motherhood ever since my children were tiny.

My firstborn son started suffering at the hands of the moral little thugs from your moral, upright families from the time he was in the first grade. He was physically and verbally abused from first grade straight through high school because he was perceived to be gay.

He never professed to be gay or had any association with anything gay, but he had the misfortune not to walk or have gestures like the other boys. He was called "fag" incessantly, starting when he was 6.

In high school, while your children were doing what kids that age should be doing, mine labored over a suicide note, drafting and redrafting it to be sure his family knew how much he loved them. My sobbing 17-year-old tore the heart out of me as he choked out that he just couldn't bear to continue living any longer, that he didn't want to be gay and that he couldn't face a life without dignity.

You have the audacity to talk about protecting families and children from the homosexual menace, while you yourselves tear apart families and drive children to despair. I don't know why my son is gay, but I do know that God didn't put him, and millions like him, on this Earth to give you someone to abuse. God gave you brains so that you could think, and it's about time you started doing that.

At the core of all your misguided beliefs is the belief that this could never happen to you, that there is some kind of subculture out there that people have chosen to join. The fact is that if it can happen to my family, it can happen to yours, and you won't get to choose. Whether it is genetic or whether something occurs during a critical time of fetal development, I don't know. I can only tell you with an absolute certainty that it is inborn.

If you want to tout your own morality, you'd best come up with something more substantive than your heterosexuality. You did nothing to earn it; it was given to you. If you disagree, I would be interested in hearing your story, because my own heterosexuality was a blessing I received with no effort whatsoever on my part. It is so woven into the very soul of me that nothing could ever change it. For those of you who reduce sexual orientation to a simple choice, a character issue, a bad habit or something that can be changed by a 10-step program, I'm puzzled. Are you saying that your own sexual orientation is nothing more than something you have chosen, that you could change it at will? If that's not the case, then why would you suggest that someone else can?

A popular theme in your letters is that Vermont has been infiltrated by outsiders. Both sides of my family have lived in Vermont for generations. I am heart and soul a Vermonter, so I'll thank you to stop saying that you are speaking for "true Vermonters."

You invoke the memory of the brave people who have fought on the battlefield for this great country, saying that they didn't give their lives so that the "homosexual agenda" could tear down the principles they died defending. My 83-year-old father fought in some of the most horrific battles of World War II, was wounded and awarded the Purple Heart.

He shakes his head in sadness at the life his grandson has had to live. He says he fought alongside homosexuals in those battles, that they did their part and bothered no one. One of his best friends in the service was gay, and he never knew it until the end, and when he did find out, it mattered not at all. That wasn't the measure of the man.

You religious folk just can't bear the thought that as my son emerges from the hell that was his childhood he might like to find a lifelong companion and have a measure of happiness. It offends your sensibilities

that he should request the right to visit that companion in the hospital, to make medical decisions for him or to benefit from tax laws governing inheritance.

How dare he? you say. These outrageous requests would threaten the very existence of your family, would undermine the sanctity of marriage. You use religion to abdicate your responsibility to be thinking human

beings. There are vast numbers of religious people who find your attitudes repugnant. God is not for the privileged majority, and God knows my son has committed no sin.

The deep-thinking author of a letter to the April 12 Valley News who lectures about homosexual sin and tells us about "those of us who have been blessed with the benefits of a religious upbringing" asks: "What ever happened to the idea of striving . . . to be better human beings than we are?"

Indeed, sir, what ever happened to that?

I thought it seemed appropriate after the er... 'wisdom' of the Vatican. I decided not to bother with a link, it's all there.

[Navaros]

ha! the mother is complaining about the fact that the kids were calling him "gay" without knowing that he was. but obviously he *was* "gay" and the kids beating him up were right!

therefore, the mother is a hypocrite.

as well, the mother should not blame others for her inability to parent her own child and keep him off an evil path of deviancy which will damn his immortal soul. she should take her hostility and put it where it belongs: on her own shoddy, uncaring parenting.

[SurlyPIG]

You judge and preach and bitch but wait until someone you know comes out...

And can't you read? She said the kids beat up her son for things like the way he walked at an age when kids don't even know they're straight, let alone gay...

[nampigai]

damnit Nav I hope your son (if you EVER get the posibility to reproduce) will turn out gay, then please let us all know what you will do to him.

[Dante]

Good point.

Not only is Nav wrong (from our point of view), but it seems that his argument makes no sense.

ha! the mother is complaining about the fact that the kids were calling him "gay" without knowing that he was. but obviously he *was* "gay" and the kids beating him up were right!

therefore, the mother is a hypocrite.

Eh? How can you claim that she is a hypocrite from that? What exactly has she said that contradicts her actions?

[ordos45]

ha! the mother is complaining about the fact that the kids were calling him "gay" without knowing that he was. but obviously he *was* "gay" and the kids beating him up were right!

Okay Nav...

Therefore, in concordance with the article, if someone calls you gay and beats you up for it, then you are?

[HasimirFenring]

Hey I have an idea... let's ALL put nav on our ignore lists and just pretend he isn't there. that way we can pretend he isn't making all these idiotic, hateful statements. That WOULD be nice and ironic namp...

For the last time, if you're not gay, letting gay people marry WON'T AFFECT YOU SO JUST LET THEM!

[Edric O]

The Navaros Cyrenius (commonly known as the Nav) is a very rare and very dangerous species of troll. His natural habitat is composed of various gaming forums, in which he flaunts his gaming prowess in order to mask his complete lack of a real life. The Nav feeds on attention, and will go to any lengths to receive it. When faced with a Nav infestation, the best course of action is to starve the Nav by denying him the attention he seeks.