Satan...a decent guy?

[Miles]

Oh my.. you have discovered that there are corrupted christians, evangelists, and scholars... and even preachers....even priests who molest boys..... wow you are soo perceptive :O

What do you want??.. an award?

and due to these bad apples... you would discard the whole notion of a God?.....who is petty now? ;)

No, I have no problem with theism. I don't agree with it, but I accept it. The problem lies when people believe in absolutes, and those that profess to know them. As you do.

The problem comes from the fact that most people around the world would prefer to be sheep than to be thinkers. Most are those "weak" christians that you put yourself above. Those "bad apples" merely use this blindness inherent in religion to their own ends.

This goes straight to my scenerio. What if the Bible was truly written by Satan? What if he used this energy for his own ends? The religious, even you, are enslaved by the absolutes of the Bible.

How could you possibly respond with anything to disprove this?

[GUNWOUNDS]

I am not religious...as you think i am ....and i am not insulting you.. if i have i am sorry.

If you want to know what i really feel in my heart...

then read this thread here

that i made a few weeks ago.... read it carefully. This is how i feel.

http://www.dune2k.com/forum/?board=34;action=display;threadid=10165

also read my blackhole post.

tell me what you think of that.

[SurlyPIG]

Well seeing as how it was allegedly written by men (and not women, I wonder why God did that) who were inspired by God, I don't see how they could. Jus replade the words 'inspired by God' with 'posessed by Satan'. Equally unfounded, equally (im)possible.

[Miles]

I am not religious...as you think i am ....and i am not insulting you.. if i have i am sorry.

If you want to know what i really feel in my heart...

then read this thread here

that i made a few weeks ago.... read it carefully. This is how i feel.

http://www.dune2k.com/forum/?board=34;action=display;threadid=10165

I don't possibly know how you could feel that you did not insult me, but ok, whatever.

I would MUCH more readily accept that way of thinking than the common form of religion. As I said, I accept theism as a natural condition of humanity, even though I disagree with it.

However, don't confuse voicing my opinion with mindless, and pointless christian bashing. You mentioned that you wonder why Acriku spends so much time posting on religion if he is atheist. I can tell you why I do, and this is only one of four sites I go to, so I DO often debate with those religious "scholars".

I don't find much opportunity to discuss my beliefs with those around me. Most either don't care, or are so brainwashed that all I get is "you are going to hell!". So my refuge for working out my thoughts is on the internet. I learn from hearing other people's opinions, giving mine, and getting feedback. It helps me to get a wide variety of opinions to consider in my search for truth.

So, even though I don't have any reason to "bash" your ideology, I might still debate for the sake of learning yet another point of view. If we could keep it civil, I think it could be somewhat enlightening since I have never heard of non-denominational christianity.

also read my blackhole post.

tell me what you think of that.

I'll do that, but not tonight. I think my wife is getting impatient with how long I have been down here. ;D

[quoudam72]

Ok let me present something for thought. What if Adam and Eve where not a man and a woman but actually "groups" of two different people. Looking at this subject (the meaning of the names Adam and Eden) from a linguistic point of view Eden, or Edin, appears first in Sumer, the Mesopotamian region that is reguarded as having produced the world's first written language. The time -line would be about the third millennium B.C., more than three thousand years after the rise of the Ubaid culture. In Sumerian the word "Eden" meaning is "fertile plain." The word "Adam" meaning is something like "settlement on the plain."

[Egeides]

Same here Miles...

It's pretty hard to find people with these interests irl (in real world). There are some groups, but it's not easy to find a correct one.

[drahgoon]

Now now draggoon, that doesn't encourage thinking for yourself now does it? ;)

he knows what is going to happen and when its going to happen weither or not he will stop it from happening is a diferent story but that does not effect the way we think for our selves and by the way gob would you ever lock this ???

[Edric O]

Even though I've decided to stay away from this topic, I still need to correct Miles:

Miles, your hypocrisy argument would have been true if we had claimed that Christianity has more evidence to support it than your invented religion. However, we claimed no such thing. I only pointed out that your invented religion is self-contradictory (because it both supports the Bible as being true and attacks it as being a big fat lie). Whether you accept this argument or not is beside the point (I have already said that I'm done arguing about this). The point is that your argument on hypocrisy is based on something which we did not do.

Alright, that was all I had to add. Have a nice day. :)

[Miles]

Even though I've decided to stay away from this topic, I still need to correct Miles:

Miles, your hypocrisy argument would have been true if we had claimed that Christianity has more evidence to support it than your invented religion. However, we claimed no such thing. I only pointed out that your invented religion is self-contradictory (because it both supports the Bible as being true and attacks it as being a big fat lie). Whether you accept this argument or not is beside the point (I have already said that I'm done arguing about this). The point is that your argument on hypocrisy is based on something which we did not do.

Alright, that was all I had to add. Have a nice day. :)

Can a document not have truth mixed with lies Edric? You look at this from a far too black and white perspective.

Nor did I say that in this "religion" the Bible true. I only meant that Satan would certainly have given it some appearance of truth in order to trick the masses into following it. I see no contradiction.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Well the bible praises God and Denounces satan.

Therefore Satan could not have written this.

Some of the people asked jesus if his miracles were of the devil.

And jesus replied.. A house Divided against itself .. shall not stand.

Satan writing the Bible in order to teach others to be moral and good and to worshipp god and to denounce satan.. would not work for satan's objectives or goals.

If satan had written the bible he would be in a house divided.

He would be chopping off his own arm. If satan wrote a bible it would be more to the effect of telling you that its ok to do wrong. Satan would find a way to validate secularism. Sort of like the Hedonists groups ... you know the ones.. they have orgies and do what ever they feel like.. because they believe there is nothing wrong with fulfilling fleshy pleasures. In my opinoin this is what satan would do... and actually does. Writing the bible is not his style. He is gonna try to get you to indulge yourself and make sure you get no where near the light.

There are much better topics to be discussed here... and this is not one of them.

[Acriku]

Hey now, nothing wrong with orgies :P

Truth is GUNWOUNDS, you don't know who inspired the men to write it. The book says who inspired people to write the book, which is circular reasoning.

Q:Who inspired the men to write the bible?

A:God.

Q:Says who?

A:The bible.

[GUNWOUNDS]

you totally ignored my point though.

If i wanted to decieve someone to do wrong... telling them the right thing to do would not help my cause.

It makes no difference that we dont know who inspired the bible to be written... it doesnt matter at all... we are intelligent enuf to know who didnt write it.

[Acriku]

Satan is a very complex being. We cannot understand his ways, he is very mysterious and not able to be understood. Gee, sound familiar? Anyways, how do you know Satan's motives? It's ingenious to write something portraying yourself as something that wouldn't write it.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Well if you want to "What if?" every topic to death .. thats fine.... but the "house divided against itself" proverb suits me just fine. If you dont understand that saying then i dont know what else to tell ya.

And i never said satan was complex and not able to be known... i said God was....

Dont mix my words around. ;)

Satan is quite easy to read.

He wants us all dead. He is jealous of God. He wants to corrupt God's creation. makes perfect sense.

[Acriku]

He wants us all dead. He is jealous of God. He wants to corrupt God's creation.

Says who? ...The bible... This circular reasoning of yours is almost touching.

[GUNWOUNDS]

ok look Acriku....

If you want to know the truth i am not some blind sheep idiot who doesnt know what evidence is.

The fact is ... The possbility of that book being true is just as possible as it not being true... therefore i take einsteins logic that says better to believe in a God and die and realize there isnt one.. than to NOT believe in a god and die and realize there IS one !!

The two WORSE POSSIBLE case scenarios are below........

1.)So i believe in the bible and i die and there is nothing??.. so what?

2.)So i dont believe in the bible and i die and there is something.. oh shit !!

i am sorry but einstein is making tons of sense to me.

I'll choose option number one.

And you know what??..... it doesnt hurt me or burden me in anyway. I live quite a normal life and christianity doesnt negatively affect me with any burdens. Maybe it takes a little time out of my day if i happen to say a few prayers.. or maybe a dinner's grace.

And maybe when i thank god for a blessing i perceive that he gives me.. yes those few seconds i have lost..... but you know what?? It doesnt negatively affect me in anyway.

But thats what atheists are scared of... oh all their precious time they have... cant be wasted on God or religion.

If you went to a door... and i told you that there might be a tiger behind the door.. but i wasnt sure... so i offered you a gun...but you denied the gun because you said there was no proof that there was a tiger behind the door. Then you are a fool.

[Inoculator9]

You of course seek to minimize religion with that post. Choosing a religion should not be based on your afterlife. I would rather life a moral life as an atheist and go to spend a million or so in el purgatorio, then to live a personal lie as a Christian. You have to believe what is best for you NOW.

And regarding your earlier post about the bible being written by Satan. Were I not an atheist, I would agree. The Bible has started dozens of wars and killed countless millions. A less controversal, less critical bible would have allowed more people to live.

[Acriku]

That is your personal reason for believing in the Christian god (one of many I suppose), that's fine. But how do you know which god is right? What if Allah is correct? An Islamic could say just the same, but with Allah instead of your god. There are many many different gods, which one will you pick? The number of people believing has nothing to do with its validity, so take your pick. You pick the Christian god, ok but are you sure you want to? Of course, you can take my path and choose none of them.

About your tiger scenario. First, I would say "Yeah right dude." I would then put my ear to the door, trying to hear it. If I can't, then I would look under the door crack, trying to see it. If nothing shows a tiger, than I will open the door slightly, and peek out. I think you get my drift. Oh, and yes I would deny the gun. Because if there truly is a tiger behind the door, I wouldn't open it in the first place.

[Inoculator9]

It all depends on what you expect/want to find on the other side of the door.

[GUNWOUNDS]

If you would rather be an atheist and then die and discover there is a God.. then that is your foolish choice.

Your EARTH life is only 100 years or so .. while your afterlife is ETERNAL .... why would you optimized your Earthly life?? makes no sense at all.

I am not minimizing anything...... I am not going to burden myself like you tihnk i am.... all of you atheists think that

burdened catholics = christianity

and it doesnt. a non-denominational christian's life is just as relaxing and "free" as an atheists.

You see i get to live a free life like you .. except i am insured for the afterlife if there is one..... while you are screwed if there is one.

I live quite a good life... i drink.. i have anice car.. i drive it over the speed limit most of the time... i party... i eat lots of any type of meat.

I am no drone or sheep or anything like that. I live my life free and i have a relationship with what i perceive to be a God.

you are the one searching this internet for answers because your soul cannot rest.

my mind is at peace and i rest just fine.

this was a reply to inoculators post....

Acriku i will reply to you later...

[Inoculator9]

Don't presume to know the nature of things. Perhaps you'll be screwed too ;)

I'll take some time to explain some things since you have peaked my interest. I come from a traditionally Jewish family. My mother become a Zen Buddhist when I was six and an astrologer shortly after. My father has been a Buddhist since I was born and has been so since. I went to a Catholic school for three years during junior high school. All of this has given me more then enough information, thought, and experience to choose my religious and moral beliefs.

I would never claim that Catholics or Christians are burdened, quite the contrary, I believe they have it easier. As I said before, most organized religions require little thought from their practitioners on an individual basis. Your told what your beliefs are at a young age, and the illogic of them passes from your head and you no longer have the capacity to change your opinion.

I was fortunate enough to be raised by parents who enforced no particular religion on me, so I was able to devlop my own beliefs, unbiased or impressed by my family. This, in my opinion, is the basis for a clear and open mind. I consider myself to be very receptive of others and I would never condemn outright any religious denomination.

[GUNWOUNDS]

Quote from Acriku..............

"But how do you know which god is right? What if Allah is correct? An Islamic could say just the same, but with Allah instead of your god. There are many many different gods, which one will you pick? The number of people believing has nothing to do with its validity, so take your pick. You pick the Christian god, ok but are you sure you want to? Of course, you can take my path and choose none of them"

Ah yes finally... we have moved on to this topic....i hate debating on whether or not there is a GOD or whether or not the bible is true.. because those topics are so simplistic and impossible to resolve.

However it is much more interesting for me to tell you why i picked which god i picked. However i am starving and require nourishment. I will post why i did later..... I will give you a hint. I have dismissed all gods that i could find that were "obviously" man made. Such as the Sun-God Ra and others of that type. Also, I will tell you an interesting story about why The Islamic God Allah and the Christian God Jehovah are not the same (although many misinformed individuals think they are) .

[GUNWOUNDS]

Inoculator are you an atheist?

[Inoculator9]

And how do you determine what is man made? The Koran doesn't have "made in China" logo on the bottom.

And yes, I consider myself an atheist. I do, however, prescribe partially to the Buddhist practice of Ahimsa.

[GUNWOUNDS]

The Muslim god ALLAH has roots to the a pagan moon-crescent-god.

No one can find pagan roots to Jehovah.

And all this time i have forgotten to say that Acriku is correct.

Satan did write his own version of the bible and he did make a religion similar to christianity to send people astray.. its called ISLAM and the bible he wrote is called the QUARAN.

So actually acriku you are correct.