true motives

[TMA_1]

Why do some people on this site attack religion (most commonly christianity) like they do? I want to see why people break down the logic of it. They hopefully understand that it only builds the faith of christians, so what is the purpose? it all seems to narrow down to shock value and trying to piss people off. that is the only effective thing done and even that fails a lot. why piss your opponent off though? it is so spiteful. Why try to do something that will actually build people's faith? it seems to be for more immature reasons than what is said. some of these people dont even have any knowledgable base in science and philosophy. not saying I do, but these people demean and treat others as dirt. I just think it is pretty dumb.

[Navaros]

i used to consider myself a hardcore Christian but now i don't know because my best friend got brainwashed, turned into a Christian Lunatic, and began to drive me nuts on a constant basis. he had a perfect place to live, all by himself, close to where he works and goes to college. after being brainwashed by the looney-tunes, he moved out of that place into a small room in a totally different city (which means he has to commute several hours each day by train just to go to school and get to work etc.) he did all this because he "wanted to live with a Brother" --- not his biological brother, a Cult Brother, that is.

he used to love Eminimem and Kid Rock. after being brainwashed, he now hates them because "they swear too much".

just yesterday i had to almost terminate my years-long friendship with this guy. why? he kept changing his MSN nick to things like: "Praise Jesus even in your darkest hour" and "R U ready for the Rapture?" and "Jesus is coming, make your Choice".

this BS continued for a period of several months, and i tolerated it because he was my best friend who i knew for years. but ultimately, him using my computer to solicit for Jesus 24/7 even tho I am not interested in seeing his Propaganda and being annoyed by his obnoxious always-changing idiotic sentence-nicknames was an abuse of my friendship to him. i explained this to him, and he said "take me off your list then". this from a guy who was like my brother at one time.

moral of the story is: certain types of religious lunatics annoy everyone else with their propaganda, so it's fitting that atheists annoy the lunatics with propaganda of their own. that must bring balance to the force, or something. anyhow, fair is fair. for those Lunatics stealing my friend and turning him into a mindless zombie who does anything the Cult tells him to (on the surface he's just a normal "Christian" but really it's a Cult he's in) i say Godspeed to all atheists who fight against such Cultish brainwashing

[Acriku]

Of course, "they" means me, and only me ;D

Why do people attack religion? Why do people blow the whistle on corporate big-time CEOs? Why do people terminate the belief in Santa Claus in their children when they get old enough? Why do people research into "businesses" and expose their scams and frauds? Why do people...well you get my point. As ACE put it well, to fight for the truth.

If christians build their faith because of the way certain points are brought to them, then they are sad sad people.

[TMA_1]

fighting for the truth is awesome. You are attacking only the christian establishment. Not all christians are apart of it. you should know that arohk. Acriku, I didnt mean only you, so dont make assumptions. Like I said, fighting for truth is a wonderful thing. You treat all christians though as apart of the establishment, when you fail to realize that many christians have many different beliefs. In fact, it goes so far as changing the whole core values of it. Thre are systems that call themselves christians and completely ignore the name of christ. it may sound silly but its true. You say you fight for the truth, but first of all, you know that it will not accomplish much, you are basically doing this because you have a vendetta against christianity. Second, the simple fact that you are grouping all christians into one big bunch is discriminatory and destroys your free thinking ideals. thirdly, who says your truth is the correct one? You are a zealot like all other zealots. like the ones who killed pagens, the ones that attacked other races because of the color of their skin,the ones that killed homosexuals. You just use words, which are filled with violence. Why fight christians as a whole? it would be much more mature to fight the groups and individual evils within it. you are an overzealous revolutionary anyway, the kind that history looks upon with contempt. Because behind the nice words said, they did what they did out of spite.

[Acriku]

"It won't accomplish much," said a little black girl to her mommy, as she walked to her workplace because of the bus boycotts.

[TMA_1]

thats the whole point.lol Duh...

They had a moral purpose to fight against what was their discrimination. You are discriminating christians and are on the offensive. You have no righteous purposes, because if you did you wouldnt be acting the way you are. you preach in your defense with the mildness of martin luther king, but attack with the hatred of malcom X. This is the fundimental reason why Martin Luther King gained far more superior victories for the african american cause. You fight at a lower level than others because of your hidden hatred, or at least bitterness.

[Acriku]

Oh, I didn't know I had this hidden bitterness or hatred. I'm going to go the bathroom and see if I find it while in there. Wish me luck!

[TMA_1]

why joke around about your problems man? they are really serious.

[Acriku]

TMA, you're a riot. You seem to take things way too seriously, take a load off, kill a republican, whatever.

[exatreide]

the last part sounds fun...

[DukeLeto]

lol.

I used to be a Christian (not so much hardcore or anything, just a neutral Christian), but I drifted away as I got older. I just felt too much of it didn't make any sense. I guess I just outgrew it, kind of like you outgrow Santa Claus. :-

[TMA_1]

thats the point man, you freak out and are extremely serious one moment, then another you tell people to chill out. you would be suprised, I am actually not upset at all, It doesnt make sense though how you act. one moment you are serious about your views, the next you arent. All I know is I wouldnt want to be there when you cry to your dad because you never told him straight out about your views. You know its sad when you are afraid of telling your own father.

[Acriku]

What? Why would I cry to him? I don't tell him I'm an atheist, yet, because 1) I don't know how he will take it and 2) why should he live with that extra burden of worrying that I won't get into heaven? It doesn't seem crucial now, and you wouldn't know a thing about it being the "christian." And you seriously do seem to take it all too much, calling me an ass, disregarding every post I make, it's funny when I look back - you act like a child.

[ordos45]

Actually, most of us are children, not yet 18.

[TMA_1]

your ideals are shallow, I hope that you yourself will grow up from the same problems your ideals suffer with. You were once a great guy, but it all went away. I am not the only one that notices.

[sneezer3]

I use to debate athiests online some. But i guess it kind of cooled down.

My Experience is on most forums 90% of whatever your efforts are go to waste. You can win the arguement but no the debate. mainly due to ignorance and negatively towards any religion proven or unproven. anything you do is practically useless due to an alrerady-made up minds.(don't think i'm singleing anyone out)

No offence or hate is ment by that statement. I like athiests but just believe they are just misguided. but in the Majorty of the cases your better off just meeting in person. The best thing you can do is pray for someone. I can tell you that by experience to.

[TMA_1]

you still debate atheists sneezer.lol

[Egeides]

You say some people attack christianism, but don't you "attack" (argue against?) atheism or many different points of view whatever the field? As long as it stays in arguments and doesn't start describing the "opponent" or his ideas instead of refutating them, it seems ok to me.

[SurlyPIG]

Yeah dude, I'm with Eg on this one (hey, there's a first for everything). What you say is true to an extent but you've been just as harsh in your judgement of other people on this forum...I mean, just look at your last few posts and the things you've said to Acriku.

[TMA_1]

there is a difference in an attack towards an individual (especially if you dont understand the circumstances involved) and an attack towards an entire group or entity. I attack acriku for the content of his character, he attacks christians in general and he does not even know what and how each individual believes. that is my point.

[emprworm]

Oh, I didn't know I had this hidden bitterness or hatred. I'm going to go the bathroom and see if I find it while in there. Wish me luck!

you are indeed a zealot Acriku. You have great emotional spite against those "xians" and you are obvoiusly obsessed with combating Christianity. it really does own you, and you are its slave.

some atheists are indifferent to theism, you are consumed. wherever we go...there you will be following. The Bible predicted you. Your existence confirms my faith. how does that make you feel?

[Egeides]

you are indeed a zealot Emprworm.

[Miles]

The dangers of religion are evident both in history and in what we see today. These dangers are idntified and clearly expressed in the Dune chronicles. I argue against it because it is a hinderance to our ongoing search for truth, which I feel is essential to our survival.

1. Frank Herbert shows how easily controlled the masses are under the guise of religious fanaticism in Maudib's jihad. He shows how destructive a force this can be to humanity, and how religion serves as shackles to it's followers. The religious are the slaves. He is proven correct in current events in which religious fanaticism is proving to be one of the most destructive forces in existance today.

2. He also points out that stagnation is deadly to humanity. Religion, especially Christianity encourages this since truth and purpose are already given. People become comfortable and complacent under the security blanket of religious truth. They have no reason to search beyond scripture for truth, and this leads them to be blinded to the reality that surrounds us.

Our maturation as a species will come when morality is no longer tied to fear of horrific retribution, nor tied to heavenly rewards, rather, our reward will become the betterment of humanity itelf. It will become a deep understanding within us all, and therefore free from those who control a holy book and would manipulate it to serve their own ends. This will be humanitiy's liberation.

This can only come about if the general population is willing to come out from under their security blanket and look around for themselves at what is true in the universe. Only then will humanity begin to realize it's potential.

My optimistic, and perhaps naive vision of what we can one day become is what drives me to argue so adamantly against religion. If I am a slave to anything, it is that vision.

[Egeides]

Miles, I agree with you for simply following and nothing else. But there is a way to believe in God and still not being just some follower, to THINK by ourself. The Bible for exemple says many things that are simply wise words that many will want to follow. These words have reasons behind them that can be UNDERSTOOD. They shouldn't just be followed blindly.

What you named in your thread is only what humans make of religion, not what it can be nor that God doesn't exist. Searching for truth also includes to accept that God exists (or not, if this is what you get to believe). And prefering him to not exist shouldn't be a factor to truth.

[Miles]

Miles, I agree with you for simply following and nothing else. But there is a way to believe in God and still not being just some follower, to THINK by ourself. The Bible for exemple says many things that are simply wise words that many will want to follow. These words have reasons behind them that can be UNDERSTOOD. They shouldn't just be followed blindly.

I agree, but most people are content to accept the Bible and go no futher. Most do not think for themselves, rather they rely on their local preacher to explain it to them. These people are sheep. However, their is some potential for growth within religion, as you described, but not on the scale that could be acheived without it, some amount of blindness is inherent in religion, it is called faith.

What you named in your thread is only what humans make of religion, not what it can be nor that God doesn't exist. Searching for truth also includes to accept that God exists (or not, if this is what you get to believe). And prefering him to not exist shouldn't be a factor to truth.

Wrong, the search for truth is the question of his existance itself. Any preference based on desire poisons this search, as evidence is then manipulated to fit these desires. Just look at Creationism as a prime example.

I accept neither of these conclusions, but in the absence of evidence find no reason to believe that he exists. And, until said evidence is put forth, I will continue to search as unbiased as I can.