You want a bath? Convert!

[Acriku]

A very disgusting example of what is wrong with religion is this...

http://atheism.about.com/cs/goingtowar/a/cs_chap_bribe.htm

A military chaplain is using military water to convert soldiers. A soldier walks up tired, sweaty, and overall dirty. He wants a bath. But wait! The military chaplain standing in between the soldier and the water is standing their with his bible. "Stay dirty, or enjoy this wonderful bath - but you must be baptized into my religion first!" the chaplain demands.

Is this morally wrong? I say yes. Is this legally wrong? I say yes again. Post your thoughts.

[Egeides]

Yeah well I think this one didn't understood the meanings of his religion...

[TMA_1]

you notice that acriku spits out just as much dogma as the people he preaches against? never heard somebody so hypocritical.

[SurlyPIG]

How can this be dogma? He posted a link to support his claim and it appears to be reputable...

[TMA_1]

the dogma isnt in the information he gave, but the attitude he has and the constant bitternes against religion.

[Gobalopper]

Every group has its extremists. Not much you can do about it.

[Acriku]

I hope one soldier pushes him aside and jumps in the water, because he isn't allowed to do that legally (separation of church and state).

[DjCiD]

Where is the official report from the Miami Herold. heck if I had a site I could put a story about other religions and how bad they are and how someone big or important abused their power to convert people and say I got it straight from the Washington Post. But without a link I shouldn't expect people to take my word for it. He could have very well embellished the story to make it good for his site. Looks like its time to do a Google search :D

Well I went to the MiamiHerold.com and searched their archives and found a snippet of the story but when I click to view it I get an error I also found a rebutting story about the Army looking into this allegation.

[Acriku]

You are obviously a skeptic on things against religion, but why not on things for religion? Seems hypocritical to me. But thank you for shedding some light on the validity of this story. It may be too bad to be true, but who knows if they have god on their side!

[Navaros]

need more details.

if it's *his* water, then he owns the rights to it. Just like how the water belongs to Fremen in Dune. you can't blame a guy for setting the conditions for who gets to use *his* water, if it is in fact his water. if it his water, then it's his choice how he chooses to let it be used. it is also the dirty soldiers' choice to accept his conditions or not. it is not morally wrong for him to do what he did if; it is his water. no more so than it's morally wrong to be taxed for things you never have any involvement with, or how you have to pay unfair prices for most everything in this world just to make a few select people richer.

[Acriku]

It's not his water. It's the military's. If you read the article, you would understand that. :P

[TMA_1]

You are obviously a skeptic on things against religion, but why not on things for religion? Seems hypocritical to me. But thank you for shedding some light on the validity of this story. It may be too bad to be true, but who knows if they have god on their side!

huh?

pot calling the kettle black man.lol

[Acriku]

Care to clarify that expression?

[TMA_1]

you say that DJ is a skeptic about things against religion. you then say he is not against the opposing side. you then called him a hypocrite.

you are just as one sided as him. I have never heard of a more hypocritical and ignorant statement in all my life.lol

[number6]

How the hell did he bring his own stash of 500 gallons of water out to Iraq? When forward deployed I know the military is pretty strict on what you are allowed to take of your own with you (on Uncle Sam's bill). I can't imagine any Commanding Officer putting up with this even if it is the preacher's own water. I am guessing that this is in fact water meant for the troops and he is misusing his rank (Chaplains are officers usually with a rank of Captain and above). Like I said I can't see the CO putting up with this from the chaplain. All of the Chaplains I have met in the military are very kind souls who are there to increase the troop welfare and not to extort the troops. I am guessing this is an isolated incident that should be taken care of rather quickly by the chain of command. This is a bad thing, but the article should be more upset with the commander of the unit in question for not putting an end to this sooner. Yes, the chaplain is wrong for doing this, but this one incident in no way a reflection on the Baptist faith. The guy is obviously an extremist and there is no need for such individuals in the military.

[Acriku]

No, his actions seem to be hypocritical. Also, I had no reason to check the sources, they were credible enough. Do you check every source of the Iraqi articles Gob posts? Obviously not, because that would be paranoid, and we know you're not paranoid...

number6, You are certainly correct. There are details not mentioned in the report, so I do not know what the commander is doing. As for him being extreme, I live somewhat south of the Bible Belt - and that sh*t goes on everyday up there.

I've checked the Herald, and this is what I found:

Comments on the story... http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/editorial/letters/5597547.htm

The Army looking into it... http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/nation/5607432.htm (note: no error Dj...)

The synopsis of the story -

Published on April 4, 2003, Page 22A, The Miami Herald

ARMY CHAPLAIN OFFERS BAPTISMS, BATHS

Source: MEG LAUGHLIN, mlaughlin@herald.com

In this dry desert world near Najaf, where the Army V Corps combat support system sprawls across miles of scabrous dust, there's an oasis of sorts: a 500-gallon pool of pristine, cool water. It belongs to Army chaplain Josh Llano of Houston, who sees the water shortage, which has kept thousands of filthy soldiers from bathing for weeks, as an opportunity.``It's simple. They want water. I have it, as long as they agree to get baptized,'' he said. And agree Click here for complete article

The link for the complete article doesn't come up, I suspect I have to be a paying customer to do so.

[number6]

Some areas are worse than others as far as extremism goes. In my life experience I have never met a Baptist that tried to get me to do something I did not want to do. I am not into spending half a day in Church singing Gospel music. I know a few of my relatives and friends are into this, but they have never asked more of me than to stop by the church if I have a chance. They know very well that I am not coming, but they are always friendly and extend an invitation. Again I think it is wrong for the article to start questioning the Baptist faith because one bad apple is acting unethically. Are there a lot of Baptist extremists? Probably, but they should not be allowed to serve in the military as chaplains and this behaviour (IMO) is not indicitive of the faith. That's all I am saying.

[TMA_1]

good stuff number6

yeah acriku, you are an extremist yourself. I will always pick you off on that because you live a lie because of it. I hope it cools down when you get older.

[Acriku]

Hehe if you think I'm an extremist, don't go to the forums at www.atheistnetwork.com, you will piss in your panties.

But I will say this: Stop turning my threads or threads I post in, into an intermission, of sorts, of my atheism. You are a moderator, so start acting like one.

[DukeLeto]

Announcer: It's another rousing episode of "Battle of the Landsraad!" int his corner, we have Acriku-, sworn Athiest. And in this corner, we have TMA-1... ::)

Anyways, Akriku's right: it's immoral and, more importantly, illegal what that monk dude (Priest? Sorceror? I don't know.) was doing.

(Notice how theists like to drag things off topic when they can't prove their point with hard evidnce? The pro-war folks are like that, too. Often, they're the same group. Go figure. ::))

[TMA_1]

that has nothing to do with the forum I moderate in. you cant handle it can you? stop being a hypocrite and I will respect your posts.

[SurlyPIG]

Demote him. That's dispicable, and number6 is totally right that his commanding officer should NEVER have allowed that. Using publically funded, military water is unacceptable. The fact that the guy is in the military is unacceptable. Could you imagine an executive in the workplace giving raises to all those who convert? Well that's no different from this.

Now if he were some independant guy not affiliated with the military using his own hot water, then by all means that's fine. But if I were venturing out to a place on the battlefield to take a leak, I wouldn't check to hard to make sure his water reserves remain un-urinated...j/k

[DjCiD]

I try to make it a point to check the credibility for any site that is pro/con religions (notice I said religions, not just my own). I don't want to be passing on bad info to people. Also I've notice Gob label when he is unsure the creditability of a site ;) Anytime I make a post about something I've found, like the Biblical Tablet that was found, I want to make sure it's not just some crack-pot with some web space.

I have never visited the site you listed so I was at first unsure of the article, but after searching I found it was true but still haven't read the entire article as it was unavailable at miamiherald.com so I don't know the entirety of it.

I may do many things that seem hypocritical, I'm not going to lie and say I'm not. It's not like I'm flawless.

I still haven't gotten the full story from April 4th, when I click on the link from the snippet Akricu got the quote from it opens in taskbar and on the the side it says 'Done, but with errors on page'. I have to close it from windows task manager.

I did see the April 11th one, and mentioned it in my post. I didn't say this report was the one with the error, it was the one from April 4th I couldn't get the full article. If the error is from me not being a paying customer then I guess I will never see the full story. So my questions are unanswered. How did he get the water, was it his or the Military. What was it specified for, if it was ordered for him and his duties specifically then why should he have to share? You think the Officers are going to share the Quilted Northern double-ply extra soft with aloe with the enlisted men... nope they'll have to stick with Scott's one-ply.

Wonder what the Army comes up with after the investigation? In that one report the Chaplain was said to have told investigators he didn't recall making those statements, was he misquoted or misunderstood?

[Caid Ivik]

A very disgusting example of what is wrong with religion is this...

A military chaplain is using military water to convert soldiers. A soldier walks up tired, sweaty, and overall dirty. He wants a bath. But wait! The military chaplain standing in between the soldier and the water is standing their with his bible. "Stay dirty, or enjoy this wonderful bath - but you must be baptized into my religion first!" the chaplain demands.

Is this morally wrong? I say yes. Is this legally wrong? I say yes again. Post your thoughts.

Where you go for such things... ;D

Some religions, i.e.Hindu, have also physical cleansing as a ritual. Every Hindu must bath himself at least once per life (altough it isn't sure all do it...).

[DukeLeto]

I'd rather they bathed EVERY day. :P ;)