Out of this world?

[Acriku]

I have been thinking. Yes thinking!

These are just a bunch of random thoughts, so do what you want them, I'm not afraid! :D

Ok, time is the rate of change. This rate isn't set, as it can be manipulated (theory of relativity for starters). So, if time is the rate of change - and if God is outside time - nothing goes on outside of this universe. There is nothing changing outside of this universe. So, god would have to enter the universe to do something, even though entering is a change, right? Then we come to my next random thought.

This being, is outside of time (difficult concept to comprehend, indeed) and space. And, we the beings of inside the universe are in time and space. So how could god enter this universe? I imagine that once he enters this universe, he becomes bound by time and space. The two cannot merge, that would be a contradiction of sorts. So how does god go in and out of the universe? Especially to interact with the world in it? He can't do the change outside of the universe, since there is no time, so he would have to do it inside the universe. But how does he get there without making a change? This, as far as I know, leads me to the conclusion that God has actually always been inside the universe, and was created with it (the big bang). Just a *pop*, so to speak, and was here, with his infinity. So, god is the universe. God being the euphemism for all that is around us, god is everywhere!

[Dude_Doc]

Acriku: Do understand that God is the only one who creates universes. Imagine if you are working with a virtual reality program, you can go in and change and do whatever you want to this "virtual world" of yours. You create A.I.'s who represents the humans, and they are living and working even when you are not "inside", like normal human beings in the original/our world. Now, would this virtual world have any affect on you? No, it would not. It isn't a matrix, it is YOUR world.

We only say universe because that's our world, we are living inside of it. God can never, nevre EVER, be explained in a logical way. Logic can be found everywhere in this universe, inside you, in your home, your country etc. The whole universe can be explained, I am sure of. But when we die, all logic goes out the window because after death we enter something that can't be explained as a world.

On the other side, if God would live in His own world, and create ours and enter it, THEN I am pretty sure that He would be affected.

Always have in mind: There can be one or millions of universes, but Heaven, as we call it, is unexplainable. It is the "everything" we question.

[Acriku]

Just as a reminder - this isn't a debate, just thoughts I had to get out.

So Dude_doc, to believe in God would require abandoning all logic and reason, correct?

Also, if we are outside of time, and the AI is inside of time, then yes I can understand that analogy, as my whole thought process was going with the idea of time and the lack of it.

[DjCiD]

The Holy Spirit is the how God interacts with this world while He remains outside of the universe. Well thats just my take on it.

[Edric O]

Philosophers have been speculating on this for millenia, you know. :)

The problem is, since we don't know how the whole "outside the universe" thing really works, we can only take guesses as to whether it's possible or not to go in and out of the universe, and how one could do that...

[Caid Ivik]

Maybe it is true. Maybe this universe is His part, but that's hard to understand, because He has no body. He is over matter and energy, His substance is something else, an absolute soul without any border, but still a strict definition. His "world" is unchangable, because it hasn't time, if He was who created it. But what is the hardest question is: is that "other world" a universe like this, permamental existence with one ruling Lord which is de facto isolated from dead souls from this space, or is it only He Himself, world named "God"? It should take some LSD to imagine it. There is a logic and reason, just it is too hard to understand. You know, He has much more advanced mind than us.

[Dude_Doc]

Also, if we are outside of time, and the AI is inside of time, then yes I can understand that analogy, as my whole thought process was going with the idea of time and the lack of it.

Remember: He is almighty, His world (heaven) is everything! Our universe is some small particle, He can manipulate it without breaking ANY rules! He created it, He can destroy it without anyone noticing a bit.

[Davidu]

Random thought:

The galaxies usually have a spiral shape... resembling the DNA. Could we live inside GOD's DNA?

It could be a fact...

[slaphapy]

ummm... DNA is in a double-helix shape... not really a spiral...

anyway, that is a good way to think of it though... if you are on that sort of analogy, personally i would think of it more like a planet is a strand of DNA and the solar system is a cell and so on....

but, it is a good thought

[Acriku]

I think it is just the general order: things make up things which make up things that make up things. Things within things within things. Subsystems within subsystems within subsystems.

[Edric O]

There was a short movie I saw once... I found it very inspiring, and it's a pity I can't seem to find it again...

First, you see a man walking on a crowded street among loud city sounds. The image zooms out to the entire busy, noise-making city. Then it zooms out again to the whole North America, and the sounds of human civilization die down in the distance. Then it zooms out again to planet Earth, and you can only hear a low hum in the background. And then it continues to zoom out, to the entire Solar System. And again to the Milky Way. By now there is absolute silence. The image keeps zooming out, to ten galaxies, a hundred, a thousand, a million... As more and more galaxies enter the frame, they seem to melt and fuse together in the center of the image, until they form a well-known shape... the Eye of God.

[Davidu]

Yeah, we could live inside some sort of being. That means the being is infinite (in our perspective) and is everywhere around us as we are part of it.

[Egeides]

I may have an hypothesis...

Existence is not dependent on time, but time is dependent on existence since it is many states of existence that are passing one after the other. We can also consider space as beeing relative to existence, as beeing an exterior information. Thus, God could simply exist everywhere by having all information (thus beeing everywhere) and be aware of past and future, even if living in the present (considering that only the present is happening).

I wrote this in a minute so it may not be perfect :P Comments? In fact I simply put the existence first, before time and space, defining time and space towards the already existing person...

[Sneakgab]

Very interesting.. best ideas I've read in a while... I'd post or think of my own ideas but I'm way to lazy to do so. I barely have the energy to get out of bed these days... ;D

[Davidu]

Well, Sneakgab, squeeze your mind for some interesting ideas... you'll be amazed what you can find in there. ;D