God and animals...

[Acriku]

This is to keep the other topic ontopic.

So, TMA says animals are nature's resources and God can do whatever the heck he wants with them. Well we are his creation, so he can do whatever he wants with us. What a sick sick man he is. So are we part of some sadistic feat?

Furthermore, emprworm, what do animals do wrong (which is what you implied in the other thread)?

[TMA_1]

lol, its funny that people just cant stand the idea of being dependant.

[emprworm]

This is to keep the other topic ontopic.

So, TMA says animals are nature's resources and God can do whatever the heck he wants with them. Well we are his creation, so he can do whatever he wants with us. What a sick sick man he is. So are we part of some sadistic feat?

Furthermore, emprworm, what do animals do wrong (which is what you implied in the other thread)?

uhhh animals don't do anything wrong. And of course God can do whatever the heck he wants with them. He has the sovereignty, you do not. Is He sadistic? LOL. The only sadistic thing here that I see is a finite, limited, dependent being whining and getting irate at an infinite, unlimited, independent being because he is subservient and doesn't like it.

[Edric O]

LOL, Acriku, are you having problems with authority figures now as well?

Tell me, could YOU do a better job of running the universe? If you had God's power, what would YOU do?

Within a few hundred years, you would turn into a mad megalomaniac playing with the universe like your personal toy. Because you are human. And for humans, power corrupts. And infinite power... corrupts infinitely.

[Cyborg]

The bad I see in God and animals is that he invented the world so organisms had to kill eachother to recover energy.

Not the best solution imo.

[Acriku]

Haha now I am being attacked by the loving christians, oh boy...

TMA, I find my independence fruitful, if you want to hang onto your god as a crutch, then fine by me.

Ok emprworm, then what did AIDS do wrong? Since that is what you wrote in the post (without implications). I am not whining, why would you think so? I am pointing out how sadistic your god is, and how you play along with it.

Edric, authority figures? How about dictatorships? God is just another Saddam doing whatever he wants with his people and killing anybody who doesn't please him. Could I do a better job? Well if I had God's power I would already be created by the said god so now it becomes a deathmatch of sorts? But if I was god, I certainly wouldn't kill everybody just so they can be "evil" or "human" as I would call it, again. What makes you think God isn't a mad megalomaniac playing with the universe? He certainly is doing that, make a few of this, destroy all of this, help this guy, mutilate this guy, let this guy live for a ~millenia so he can slave away doing my work which I could do myself, and at a faster rate, only to kill everybody with the work that I could have done. As ou said, Infinite power corrupts infinitely. God is corrupt.

If you want to turn this into a fest of being God's B*tch and then scolding me for doubting him, fine. But keep this ontopic please.

[Caid Ivik]

God is our Father. We have to agree on his authority over us. But also we have the gift of free will, so we are ablo to disagree. Results will come, but that's not my cause. Animals were created as lower beings for purposes of human. But their own world is same as ours. With free, unguided acts. God cannot be sadistic, at least because he isn't human, so he hasn't such feelings.

[Timenn]

WTF?! >:(

Animals being lower beings?!

This the part of religion which I hate. Humans thinking they are the best creations. Why? Who ever said that? God?

Hah! Then you are convincing yourself that God said that to you! If you truly honor God, you would never do that.

God being sadistic? Or God is trying his (or her) best to make a good world. But it is still not completed.

[emprworm]

Haha now I am being attacked by the loving christians, oh boy...

awww, poor acriku is being persecuted is he? lol. C'mon, you don't feel the hate. You feel the love! :D

TMA, I find my independence fruitful, if you want to hang onto your god as a crutch, then fine by me.

you are not independent. You are utterly dependent. HOw in the world can you say you are independent? You are frail, weak, limited, finite, and hopelessly completely utterly and totally dependent. (and I don't say this to pick on you, but this is the case with all human beings)

Ok emprworm, then what did AIDS do wrong? Since that is what you wrote in the post (without implications). I am not whining, why would you think so? I am pointing out how sadistic your god is, and how you play along with it.

AIDS did nothing wrong. Why is it sadistic for God to kill? I don't get it. As Nema said earlier in another thread- when debating, we must start from a common premise that both agree on and work from there. Let us assume for argument sake that the Judeo-Christian God exists. Well, I do not agree that God killing is sadistic. How is this?

God is corrupt.

because He doesn't act according to acriku? lol! ok dude.

[Caid Ivik]

WTF?! >:(

Animals being lower beings?!

This the part of religion which I hate. Humans thinking they are the best creations. Why? Who ever said that? God?

Hah! Then you are convincing yourself that God said that to you! If you truly honor God, you would never do that.

So, he said it to us trough the Bible, if there will come some other being with same declaration, so then we should think about it. Maybe the word "best" isn't very suitable because we are only being on which we can use differentiation of good and bad. We are most advanced, last creation or the final point of evolution.

[emprworm]

WTF?! >:(

Animals being lower beings?!

This the part of religion which I hate. Humans thinking they are the best creations. Why? Who ever said that? God?

Hah! Then you are convincing yourself that God said that to you! If you truly honor God, you would never do that.

God being sadistic? Or God is trying his (or her) best to make a good world. But it is still not completed.

What? Viruses being lower lifeforms? This the part of non-religion which I hate. Humans thinking they are more important than viruses like AIDS. Why? Who ever said that? Some scientist? Hah! If you truly honor reason, you would never do that.

[Acriku]

Not persecuted empr, attacked. By the loving christians. Yep I feel the love!

you are not independent. You are utterly dependent. HOw in the world can you say you are independent? You are frail, weak, limited, finite, and hopelessly completely utterly and totally dependent. (and I don't say this to pick on you, but this is the case with all human beings)

Compared to what? And what are we dependent upon? Sure everyone is dependent on something, like the dependence of other people to do their job, to do what they are told to, and dependence of other people for their love through marriage. What is your point?

AIDS did nothing wrong. Why is it sadistic for God to kill? I don't get it. As Nema said earlier in another thread- when debating, we must start from a common premise that both agree on and work from there. Let us assume for argument sake that the Judeo-Christian God exists. Well, I do not agree that God killing is sadistic. How is this?

Ok fine. Do you agree that God does whatever he wants to his creation? That would include killing, sending to torture, giving a certain Adam reach of the dreadful tree of knowledge but told not to touch it like hanging a piece of cheese above a mouse while it is starving, vengeance upon a whole people, multiple genocides, etc.

because He doesn't act according to acriku? lol! ok dude.

The thing is, all you do in a debate is quote something without the context surrounding it, and replying to it as if that was it. Well it isn't. I tell you why God is corrupt, so don't reply to my post as if I never said why - so you can ask why.

Darwin told all of the creationists that human beings are not special, they are not unique, and that they are just a thing of nature - made by natural laws, and following them like every other lowly animal. And he is right. Humans go through adaptive radiation, they evolve, adapt, procreate, and many cannot face it.

[Edric O]

Edric, authority figures? How about dictatorships? God is just another Saddam doing whatever he wants with his people and killing anybody who doesn't please him. Could I do a better job? Well if I had God's power I would already be created by the said god so now it becomes a deathmatch of sorts? But if I was god, I certainly wouldn't kill everybody just so they can be "evil" or "human" as I would call it, again. What makes you think God isn't a mad megalomaniac playing with the universe? He certainly is doing that, make a few of this, destroy all of this, help this guy, mutilate this guy, let this guy live for a ~millenia so he can slave away doing my work which I could do myself, and at a faster rate, only to kill everybody with the work that I could have done. As ou said, Infinite power corrupts infinitely. God is corrupt.

LOL, this is like a bacteria accusing humans of being cruel sadists for using soap... ::)

If you want to judge God by human standards, then I might as well go ahead and judge you by jellyfish standards. How would that be?

Let me spell it out for you:

GOD

IS

NOT

HUMAN

The difference between humans and God is immense. INFINITE, in fact. (seeing as how He is an infinite being and we are finite - thus the difference is infinite)

[TMA_1]

acriku is right, he set you guys up and you are attacking him. You guys fell into his trap. luckily I wasent here long enough too.hehe

seriously though, you have to expect that when you make something like this, that the opposition will feel the urge to attack. You are using human nature as an enemy against them acriku and that is not fair. You are just as bias and closed minded, so dont elevate yourself man. DUH!!???? hehehe

[Timenn]

And who has written the bible, Caid Ivik?

Not God, but humans...

[Dunenewt]

And Humans are prone to errors

[Edric O]

Not persecuted empr, attacked. By the loving christians. Yep I feel the love!

And who started the topic again, Acriku? In case you haven't noticed, we're DEFENDING - you were the one who attacked.

Timenn, of course humans wrote the Bible, but through divine inspiration. So technically, we could say that God wrote it.

When it comes to translating, though, that's another matter...

[emprworm]

LOL TMA, there is no setup here. NO trap at all. It is a misconstrued argument that is making subjective conclusions objective.

you are not independent. You are utterly dependent.

"Compared to what? And what are we dependent upon? Sure everyone is dependent on something, like the dependence of other people to do their job, to do what they are told to, and dependence of other people for their love through marriage. What is your point?"

You are a dependent being, weak and frail. If your body temperature is +/- a mere 3 degrees, you die. If you don't breathe a specific amount of oxygen/nitrogen mixture at a specific quantity in a specific interval, you die. If you do not eat a miniscule and narrow range of particular forms of matter, you die. If you do not drink water, you die. You can die from a simple wound to a tiny virus. If you travel at a mere 30KPH and suddenly stop, you may die. Every breath you take is dependent upon a myriad of factors that are beyond your control. You cannot control any of them, yet your very life depends on them. You are limited, weak, frail....dependent.

Hardly in any position to dictate terms to an infinite, unlimited, indepdendent, sovereign being. Who is being sadistic?

[DjCiD]

That would include giving a certain Adam reach of the dreadful tree of knowledge but told not to touch it like hanging a piece of cheese above a mouse while it is starving

There were other trees in the garden, its not like he was starving them. Out of 'all' the trees and other plants and herbs designed to feed them he said this 'one' is off limits. But like all children, when told not to... they do, but in their defense they was a snake lieing in the grass ;)

Darwin told all of the creationists that human beings are not special, they are not unique, and that they are just a thing of nature - made by natural laws, and following them like every other lowly animal. And he is right. Humans go through adaptive radiation, they evolve, adapt, procreate, and many cannot face it.

Darwin was right, humans are not special or unique... not any more special or unique than any other of Gods creations. When really the fact is 'that'. We are all special and unique things of nature, Gods nature.

[Davidu]

Now, I have a question: if I'm an animal ;D will this affect where I'm going after death?

[Acriku]

LOL, this is like a bacteria accusing humans of being cruel sadists for using soap...

If you want to judge God by human standards, then I might as well go ahead and judge you by jellyfish standards. How would that be?

Let me spell it out for you:

GOD

IS

NOT

HUMAN

The difference between humans and God is immense. INFINITE, in fact. (seeing as how He is an infinite being and we are finite - thus the difference is infinite)

We aren't allowed to judge this god, or doubt him, this sounds like an extremely effective method of control. Tell them they cannot doubt this god, or judge him by human standards, and they can't do anything else but to worship him - or face the consequences. I'll give whoever made the Judeo-Christian God up props.

Edric, that analogy is faulty because 1)We didn't create bacteria 2) we don't have any omni-powers and 3)humans do not harm god as bacteria can harm humans, and they do not help god as bacteria can as well. So really, it isn't like bacteria accusing humans sadist for using soap.

acriku is right, he set you guys up and you are attacking him. You guys fell into his trap. luckily I wasent here long enough too.hehe

seriously though, you have to expect that when you make something like this, that the opposition will feel the urge to attack. You are using human nature as an enemy against them acriku and that is not fair. You are just as bias and closed minded, so dont elevate yourself man. DUH!!???? hehehe

I didn't set anybody up, you took my other topic offtopic so I made this one to save the other one. Not much help it did anyways, but oh well.

I don't care that they are attacking me, I am just saying where is this christian love that I hear of? I have never seen it, only from Jesus' stories.

And who started the topic again, Acriku? In case you haven't noticed, we're DEFENDING - you were the one who attacked.

Timenn, of course humans wrote the Bible, but through divine inspiration. So technically, we could say that God wrote it.

When it comes to translating, though, that's another matter...

I made this topic to keep the other from going too offtopic. By the way, you shouldn't have attacked me, you should have attacked my posts. I only attacked your God, not yourselves so attacking me was done so by itself. Anyway you translate the bible, there are going to be contradictions, inconsistencies, and errors. So far, there is no bible without them. The only way to get rid of them is to deliberately change the translating.

You are a dependent being, weak and frail. If your body temperature is +/- a mere 3 degrees, you die. If you don't breathe a specific amount of oxygen/nitrogen mixture at a specific quantity in a specific interval, you die. If you do not eat a miniscule and narrow range of particular forms of matter, you die. If you do not drink water, you die. You can die from a simple wound to a tiny virus. If you travel at a mere 30KPH and suddenly stop, you may die. Every breath you take is dependent upon a myriad of factors that are beyond your control. You cannot control any of them, yet your very life depends on them. You are limited, weak, frail....dependent.

Hardly in any position to dictate terms to an infinite, unlimited, indepdendent, sovereign being. Who is being sadistic?

We are weak, no one is debating that. But we are not depending on any outside energy, or being, you are. I am dependent on my body to work efficiently, so what is your point? So are you, except you are also dependent on an outside being.

There were other trees in the garden, its not like he was starving them. Out of 'all' the trees and other plants and herbs designed to feed them he said this 'one' is off limits. But like all children, when told not to... they do, but in their defense they was a snake lieing in the grass

I didn't mean that Adam and Eve were starving, but God has put that tree where they can easily reach it, and all he does to stop them is tell them no. Tell a dog not to eat your dinner when you put the plate on the floor, and walk away. And when you come back, and the dinner is gone, you beat the dog to death, and any other dog you see. And this "snake," God knew it was there, and he knew it was Lucifer. And he knew that Lucifer would persuade them to eat it. But he let it happen and acted like he didn't know they did it - when he asked who ate the fruit, I think that's the way it goes. If he did act like he knew, that doesn't really matter because he knew all along, yet did nothing to stop it. And, then banished all mankind to evil and sin.

[emprworm]

We are weak, no one is debating that. But we are not depending on any outside energy, or being, you are. I am dependent on my body to work efficiently, so what is your point? So are you, except you are also dependent on an outside being.

nice attempt at a strawman. Result: failure.

We have already granted the premise that the Judeo Christian God exists. I will not allow you to wiggle your way out of that premise. You called God sadistic because He can take life. As a finite, limited, weak, dependent being, what position are you in to dictate moral terms to an unlimited, infinite, independent being?

[Acriku]

I already gave an answer to that, if you read any of my posts...

We aren't allowed to judge this god, or doubt him, this sounds like an extremely effective method of control. Tell them they cannot doubt this god, or judge him by human standards, and they can't do anything else but to worship him - or face the consequences. I'll give whoever made the Judeo-Christian God up props.

But if we want to continue the existence of this god as assumed for the sake of the argument to satisfy you...I am in every position to, by using the same morals he gave us to follow. Or is god pulling the "do as I say not as I do" trick? My parents use that one all the time.

[emprworm]

"I already gave an answer to that, if you read any of my posts..."

i just read your response to me! ;D my bad, as I now see you did answer it in a response to someone else.

"We aren't allowed to judge this god, or doubt him, this sounds like an extremely effective method of control. "

Of course you are! LOL, dude. What are you doing right now? You are doing exactly that.

Given the premise: The Judeo Christian God exists.

Given: Acriku making posts about this God being sadistic.

How can acriku then say ""We aren't allowed to judge this god, or doubt him, this sounds like an extremely effective method of control. " If that was true, you would be zapped in your chair. but obviously your statement is false.

"Tell them they cannot doubt this god, or judge him by human standards" Well you can judge him all you want, but that doesn't make you right. OJ was judged innocent. So does that mean he was? Again, how is it sadistic for God to take life?

[Acriku]

No problem, just try not to do it again :D

If that was true, you would be zapped in your chair. but obviously your statement is false.

God can be sadistic and still not zap me.

Well you can judge him all you want, but that doesn't make you right. OJ was judged innocent. So does that mean he was? Again, how is it sadistic for God to take life?

OJ had a mistrial, there was no verdict. No "we the jury" speech. And since you can't try a person for the same crime more than once, he gets away. But back to the question, from the morals he gave us to follow - yes it means he is.