emprworm Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 Stripped down to its bare exposed core, this is my perception of the anti-war movement.1. Real Name: Anti-Bush movement2. They don't give a rat about the Iraqi People. If they did, they would support the obtaining of their freedom.3. Given the choice: 25 million Iraqi's in slavery or uttering with their lips "Bush was right"....they choose 25 million Iraqi's enslaved.4. They will protest Bush...even if it means supporting Hussein.5. Of 30,000 Iraqi Refugees in the US, thousands more worldwide who have escaped slavery and support the efforts to remove Hussein, the Anti-Bush movement ignores them and instead gives more credence to the dictator Hussein. 6. They would rather 25 million people live in slavery then support Bush.7. They would rather 25 million people live in slavery then support Bush.8. They would rather 25 million people live in slavery then support Bush.9. Given the empirical facts that the Afghan people greatly rejoice over their new freedom, the Anti-Bush mob ignores this.10. They argue that they care about innocent Iraqi women and children. Lie. THey care about hating Bush. Innocent Iraqi children are the last thing on their minds. If they cared about innocent Iraqi women and children, then they would be supporting the removal of Hussein immediately. (note: Remember, this is my PERCEPTION of things- reality may differ)11. They care nothing for Iraqi people. If they cared for Iraqi people, they would listen to the Iraqi refugees who plead for help and want to return to their families but can't because the Anti-Bush mob doesn't want them to.12. They care nothing for Iraqi people. If they cared for the Iraqi people they would actually read the testimonies of Iraqi refugees and visit websites that list their testimony of Iraqi conditions.13. They care nothing for the Iraqi people. If they cared for the Iraqi people they wouldn't utter such things like "Iraqi refugees are obviously biased. Besides, look at the 24 million other happy Iraqi's inside Iraq...all favoring Hussein and testifying how happy they are. Hussein was elected with a 99.999% YES vote"(note: Remember, this is my PERCEPTION of things- reality may differ)14. They care nothing for the Iraqi people. If they cared for the Iraqi people they would want to secure their freedom and put aside their hatred of Bush and the US for the sake of the Iraqi people.15. But their hatred of Bush and the USA is so intense....so powerful...so great...that they are unable to set it aside for a moment and consider the utter trajedy of 25 million human slaves living in fear and servitude under a ruthless dictator.(note: Remember, this is my PERCEPTION of things- reality may differ)This is how I see it. Its not about the Iraqi people for the war protesters as much as it is about hating Bush and America.The Iraqi people are secondary....if on the list at all.(note: Remember, this is my PERCEPTION of things- reality may differ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edric O Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 I took Emprworm off my ignore list for a while to see what he posted... and that was a big mistake.If there is any other purpose to this thread than insulting people, please let me know.At least he got one thing right: Reality DOES differ... and a hell of a lot, too. I guess his perception isn't too good, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobalopper Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I think this could be true for a number of the anti-war protesters, just look at some of the signs they bring to the anti-war rallies. But I don't think they entire anti-war movement is anti-Bush. I think a lot would just be anti-war regardless who was president or what country it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 most anti war people are just as closed minded as some of the right wing jingoists. I would not make generalizations though. Please take that into consideration empr.Some anti war protesters ahve some good reasons. I just saw a movie today called "sargeant york". Obviously, it is about the life of one of the most famous war heros in U.S. history. He grew up a hood that would go drink whenever he had the chance. He started working though in order to impress a girl he liked. H wanted to buy a nice plot of land in order to show her that he could give her a stable marriage. Well the guy that was goign to sell him the land cheated him out. He almost kileld the guy but was struck by lightening. He was stopped. He then accepted christ as his savior, but at the same time, became a pacifist. He believed it was a sin to go into battle. he was forced to go and he became one of the most decorated solders of WW 1. Even after though, he believed war was evil. He was a wonderful man and wished never to kill any living soul. Even if it is to save others. Sometimes generalizations can hurt more than it can cause good. just be careful empr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 i saw the media reports. i understand some sane people are at those rallies. but what stood out the most....those who screamed the loudest....have no concern for Iraq, they just hate Bush. This is my perception...nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 well from what I have seen, those who scream out most for the war are bush fanatics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 im not screaming for war. I'm screaming to remove Hussein. I seek to do this because the testimony of 30,000 Iraqi fugitives in the US who testify to the slavery and oppression, along with the historical fact of Husseins UN violations and barbaric actions. But mainly its the fact that people are being enslaved. I am a Bush fanatic because of his desire to free slaves. Bush wants to do what I already wanted to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I didnt mean you. I meant the bush fanatics. They are most heard about pro war sentaments. I am not going into the ethics of the reasons for war. I am stating that both sides have their fanatics. generalizing either group is bad to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 I didnt mean you. I meant the bush fanatics. They are most heard about pro war sentaments. I am not going into the ethics of the reasons for war. I am stating that both sides have their fanatics. generalizing either group is bad to do.well you have your observations. its interesting. especially given the fact that perhaps the people who want to take out Hussein the most are Iraqi refugees and they do not in general admire Bush- only supporting his efforts to free their families from slavery so they can return home. I'm fascinated how you could observe that they are Bush fanatics. I don't see this even in the slightest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 it is because you have changed your perception on things. You let yourself slant towards bush's opinions. Many of the people who are against the war of iraq dont wish to see people slaughtered. They have their reasons too. Frankly, most anti war protesters tend to annoy me. Many of them dont really know what they are fighting for in the first place. At the same time though, there are fanatics on both sides. you just wont let yourself see that. It is like during the time of christ. There were many jewish religious leaders who were staunch supporters of roman occupation. They recieved many benefits from it. On the other hand, there were extremists that wanted rome to be done away with. The extremists hated the rape, plunder and all around evil rome did to the nations it conquered. There is a misconception that rome was *always* good to the people it conquered. This wasnt always the truth. Christ though, did not support an attack on the political powers that tyranically took over israel. He said that it is not our place to do anything about it. That God iwll handle it. So how is this different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 it is because you have changed your perception on things. You let yourself slant towards bush's opinions. Many of the people who are against the war of iraq dont wish to see people slaughtered. They have their reasons too. Frankly, most anti war protesters tend to annoy me. Many of them dont really know what they are fighting for in the first place. At the same time though, there are fanatics on both sides. you just wont let yourself see that. It is like during the time of christ. There were many jewish religious leaders who were staunch supporters of roman occupation. They recieved many benefits from it. On the other hand, there were extremists that wanted rome to be done away with. The extremists hated the rape, plunder and all around evil rome did to the nations it conquered. There is a misconception that rome was *always* good to the people it conquered. This wasnt always the truth. Christ though, did not support an attack on the political powers that tyranically took over israel. He said that it is not our place to do anything about it. That God iwll handle it. So how is this different?in theory i'm sure there are some fanatics, but I just didn't see any. where are they? And as far as the theory that there are anti-war people who are not anit-Bush....who? Who are they? Maybe there is an occasional one here and there, but I have not seen anyone who is anti-war but not anti-Bush. Anyone who protests the freeing of slaves is an extremist to me. Now, lets take your "pro-Bush" extremists...what are they doing? The anti-Bush extremists are trying to prevent slaves from being set free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Emp I'm getting really sick of you. These days you seem to view Bush as a cowboy pres who would want nothing more then a world full wiht nice flowers and butterflies. Wake up dude.You're generalising the majority of the world with a couple of anti Bush fanatics. Has it ever occured to you that some of the pro war people actually don't give a damn about the Iraqi people, but just want to go to war to take vengeance, or just plain for the fun of it? But you don't see me putting a label on you.We know such people exist on both sides, yet you only seem to care about one of them. What are you going to do? Take away the right of speech and the right to vote of those who hold extremist views? Death camps for all anti Bush fanatics? Cause I'd like to hear your billion dollar solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 the iraqi people arent slaves first of all. You could say the same for the israelites when occupied under other nations. Christ said though not to do anything about it. Even though there was mass cruelty. Also, there are plenty who arent anti bush. As a matter of fact. I know a family that goes to a regular baptist church aroudn here. They are as conservitive as can be, and supported bush and still do. I mean they held grass roots campaigns for bush to get into office.lol They dont like the war though, and the whole church disagrees with it. Also, my friend robbie and his family who are mormons, they see the war as wrong, even though his dad has actually had dinner with the bush family in thanks for his campaigning. His family is just as fanatic as you about bush, but believe that the war is too premature of an idea. my family is against the war because of our stance on internationalism and globalism. My mom and dad though voted for George bush jr. They still in general, like his ideas. Even though we are democrats with things like welfare reform and affirmative action and the like. We are against abortion and we are pro life, against homosexual marriages and stuff. We really like bush, just not this idea. Dont brand all people who are against the war as somehow having a flawed idea. Many people could do the same against you. You know what? I would tell them they are wrong about you if that happened. I suggest not being so one dimensional. just a little bit man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 [c]Emp I'm getting really sick of you. These days you seem to view Bush as a cowboy pres who would want nothing more then a world full wiht nice flowers and butterflies. Wake up dude. I think Bush does want a world full of peace. And I am completely awake, thank you. Freeing slaves is evidence of this. However, I cant say the same for war protestors who want to keep people enslaved to a barbaric dictator.You're generalising the majority of the world with a couple of anti Bush fanatics. no. i'm generalizing the majority of war protesters as anti-bush. I dont think that is the majority of the world. but who knows.Has it ever occured to you that some of the pro war people actually don't give a damn about the Iraqi people, but just want to go to war to take vengeance, or just plain for the fun of it?sure it has. but a pro-war person who has his way will still have the same net result: freedom for enslaved people.An anti-bush person who has his way will result in continued slavery for oppressed people. So basically, the pro-war fanatics are completely inconsequential. Hopefully, this will be the same with the pro-"keep-iraqi's-enslaved" fanatics as well. But you don't see me putting a label on you.nope. not in this thread anyway. :)We know such people exist on both sides, yet you only seem to care about one of them. i dont know such people exist on both sides. i am assuming there are, but I haven't seen any. have you?What are you going to do? Take away the right of speech and the right to vote of those who hold extremist views? Death camps for all anti Bush fanatics? Cause I'd like to hear your billion dollar solution.people can hold any view they want. i want no ones rights to be taken away. If someone wants to publicly voice support of Iraqi Enslavement and stand up against Iraqi refugees who are pleading for help, that is their right. I don't want to take that away.I do hope, however, that we bring down Hussein, despite the protests of people who want to keep Iraq's people in a state of oppression and slavery in the name of hating Bush. I know its not everyone, but its my perception, because it is what I have seen. I have yet to see pro-bush fanatics that you describe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMA_1 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 but you see empr, not all people who are against the war are bush haters. just be careful about generalizing. okay? :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyarlathotep Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Emp, what you state may be true for some of those protesters, yet I fail to see the reason to generalize all protesters the way you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caid Ivik Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 That is true, that most of them are just fanatically against US politics, mostly due to they are jealous for their wealth. I don't believe there is Democratic Party behind it ;) Because they are also hypocrits, because they enjoy many of their creations, they started to hate one person, president G.W.Bush. Disusing Vatican's opinion for its moralism, which isn't bad either, but also Vatican is against any war. I agree with emprworm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I am not jealous for US wealth, nor is any person down here in the Netherlands or anywhere else in Europe.And enjoy what of their creations? They spawned McDonalds and Mickey Mouse, and both of them are evillllll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyarlathotep Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 That is true, that most of them are just fanatically against US politics, mostly due to they are jealous for their wealth.I seriously doubt that Caid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken124578 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 They spawned McDonalds.The only good thing is their mc. chicken ;D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caid Ivik Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I am not jealous for US wealth, nor is any person down here in the Netherlands or anywhere else in Europe.And enjoy what of their creations? They spawned McDonalds and Mickey Mouse, and both of them are evillllll.What is evil on that? You are jealous to their ability to create it! See how much they brought now to culture and how much Europe did! Altough it isn't best we've seen, that's true, but you we should compete them, not condemn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 I'm not een going to bother to respond to that.Wait...I just did. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caid Ivik Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 There is nothing pushing you to do it ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emprworm Posted February 24, 2003 Author Share Posted February 24, 2003 I am not jealous for US wealth, nor is any person down here in the Netherlands or anywhere else in Europe.And enjoy what of their creations? They spawned McDonalds and Mickey Mouse, and both of them are evillllll.all you have to do to get rid of McDOnalds is not buy any cheeseburgers. I haven't spent a dime in a McDonalds in at least a year. Probably 2 years.but for every McDonalds in Europe, there are a bunch of Europeans eating food there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 but for every McDonalds in Europe, there are a bunch of Europeans eating food there.Hardly surprising ;)Those who visit McDonalds are beyond salvation...for eternity corrupted by the imperialist US... ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.