Rants Against Emprworm Thread

[Terror]

Here are my thoughts on Emprworm.

When it comes to expressing his opinion, he formulates his thoughts quite well and usually supplies us with reliable background information. Whatever else, his topics are thought inducing.

When it comes to debating, however, he's selective as of what he replies to. When I comment on the chemical weapons the US gave to Hussein to gass Iranese, for instance, I won't get a response on that. Emp often resorts to start arguing semantics if possible, or swing off topic, or not reply at all.

He's far to emotional. When the North Korea discussion heated up, he compared any person who opposed US intervention with Nazi sympathizers. If someone had any negative remark about how Afghanistan was dealt with, he would post pictures of woman about to be executed or who had been tortured, and Emp would say that the opponent was a Taliban symphathiser.

As said, in the North Korea discussion he compared opponents to Nazi sympathisers. Anybody who compares Bush to the Nazi party however, goes on his ignore list, as if Hitler is a US trademark not to be used by those damn Euros.

When people express negative thoughts about Bush, he's quick to dismiss it as European US hatred, and if that person happens to be an American himself, it's Euro inspired US hatred. No matter how many arguments you come up with, as far as Emp is concerned it is just blind, irrational hatred. I remember he said something like "if you're an intelligent American, you support Bush". Of course he was kidding, but it's basicly what it comes down to. Futhermore, if anybody criticises Bush, it is equavalent of bashing his nation as a whole, or at least that's how he takes it.

Then there's also the rant he made against the Landsraad. I won't elaborate that.

yeah that pretty much sums everything up

[emprworm]

I want you to answer my question. instead of being silly, just answer what I asked. I dont hate you man, just frustrated. Wish you would just answer my question.

naaa, this isn't the "emprworm answer my questions thread"- I aint gonna really be answering questions. Especially a question like " Is your opinion correct over everybody on this site? By your actions, you are saying your superior. "

Since you already answered the question for me, whats the point? Obviously you already have an answer that satisfies yourself, so my input not needed.

think of it like this: if I don't answer your question in this thread, then it gives you more rants! :D

[Inoculator9]

I think Nema made a good point that you should address.

[emprworm]

Here are my thoughts on Emprworm.

When it comes to expressing his opinion, he formulates his thoughts quite well and usually supplies us with reliable background information. Whatever else, his topics are thought inducing.

When it comes to debating, however, he's selective as of what he replies to. When I comment on the chemical weapons the US gave to Hussein to gass Iranese, for instance, I won't get a response on that. Emp often resorts to start arguing semantics if possible, or swing off topic, or not reply at all.

He's far to emotional. When the North Korea discussion heated up, he compared any person who opposed US intervention with Nazi sympathizers. If someone had any negative remark about how Afghanistan was dealt with, he would post pictures of woman about to be executed or who had been tortured, and Emp would say that the opponent was a Taliban symphathiser.

As said, in the North Korea discussion he compared opponents to Nazi sympathisers. Anybody who compares Bush to the Nazi party however, goes on his ignore list, as if Hitler is a US trademark not to be used by those damn Euros.

When people express negative thoughts about Bush, he's quick to dismiss it as European US hatred, and if that person happens to be an American himself, it's Euro inspired US hatred. No matter how many arguments you come up with, as far as Emp is concerned it is just blind, irrational hatred. I remember he said something like "if you're an intelligent American, you support Bush". Of course he was kidding, but it's basicly what it comes down to. Futhermore, if anybody criticises Bush, it is equavalent of bashing his nation as a whole, or at least that's how he takes it.

Then there's also the rant he made against the Landsraad. I won't elaborate that.

ooooh very nice work there earthnuker. .

Obviously all the ranters in here want me to look at things from their perspective- of course none of you look at it from mine. I got 10+ people in here that want me to answer every question . I mean c'mon. I am one human being. I am not an office of secretaries and think tanks! LOL.

So I get a barrage of questions...literally a barrage. I am one Bush supporter in a forum of angry anti-US and/or anti-Bush young people. Most of the people in here are anti-establishment. There is an overall mood in this forum of rebellion. Anti-government is the feeling of this place. So naturally, I am going to take a lot of heat when I make a stand for things that the majority despise. There is a zero...ZERO percent chance I will answer EVERY question since I get bombarded by a ton of stuff...a lot of it unsupported meaningless propoganda (the US is to blame for third world poverty, for example). Other questions are loaded questions which I will never answer (a loaded question is a question that sets up a trap- for example "When will you stop beating your girlfriend?"). I do not answer loaded questions.

For example, look at TMA's question:

Is your opinion correct over everybody on this site? By your actions, you are saying your superior. "

Like I'm going to answer that! HA!!! He asks....then answers....his own question. Whats the point of me even wasting my time on something he obviously has determined the answer for himself already. Then he says: "I want you to answer this, if you dont, then the campaign has begun."

Well....start the campaign then. ha! Can't wait to see it.

I will try to answer any legit question, however.

In regards to earthnuker specifically:

About the US giving Hussein VX gas, I never seen any evidence of such. If you want a response from me, you will have to do better than an article by Neil Mackay and Felicity Arbuthnot - a total lie. Now, once you are able to bring to the table your demonstration of evidence that Bush authorized the distribution of VX/Sarine gas to Hussein, then I will comment. Until then, its just propoganda I will ignore. Now, if you want to go into the Iraq Issues thread and make a post with some evidence of this, I will address it.

and as for emotionalism- sure! I get emotional at times....my first posts in this forum were in the religion thread where I got quite emotional with gryphon. If earthnuker felt offended about Nazi terminology I used in one thread a while ago, then I apologize. Yes, I did that once, I haven't done it again. I ignored Edric not because he did it once. I always overlook a one time thing. With him it was constant, continuous, relentless. But what I try not to do is say things like "you're an #$$#." or "you stupid fool" or "your head is as thick as the planet's crust" or "I know of 15-year olds who can translate Homeric Greek better than Empr can translate English". You see, its easy...so easy to lash out with a personal insult. Especially for young adults (ok, I wont degrade people and call them teenagers...I'll give you the dignity and say young adults). Young adults are so used to calling someone a name, I think they don't even notice how immature and baby-ish it is. If I call someone a name or hurl a personal flame at them (and I have before), I will apologize and make a conscious effort not to do it. Yet many of you ask your so-called questions wrapped in a ham-sandwhich of flames. This is why I don't give nyar's questions the time of day, because they are always asked in the context of insults. He will ask a valid question, and in the next sentence say something about me being a fool or whatever. Of course, I won't even bother responding to that. If you want me to address your question, it better be void of a personal flame or I will ignore it fully.

Now, back to the rants!!!

YAY!

[emprworm]

Are you going to change the way in which you debate, based on anything anyone here says, or ar you just going to sit there and say things like 'I respect your opinion which you have a right to, though I don't meet your own personal criteria'?

This question is an elaboration of, and equivalent to the question 'Are you too stubborn to take advice?' But please answer my the first reprasement, not this one, so that your answer is clear.

i don't see those as the same question. One question is asking if I will change my style of debating based upon responses. The other question is asking if I have the capacity and willingness to accept advice.

Answers: No, Yes.

Fred asks Nema: "Nema, my advice to you is that you bow down and worship the USA."

Nema says: "I reject that advice."

Fred says: "Are you are too stubborn to accept advice?"

Answer: No.

Basically what I am saying, is that refusing to accept advice does not necessarily mean that someone is unable to accept advice. What is the advice to me? Basically to change the way in which I debate (your words). The answer to that is no. I will not change the way in which I debate and I wouldn't ask any of you to do the same. I have a methodology in which I use when I approach any debate:

1) Research

2) Do not personally attack

3) Avoid logical fallacies

4) Identify my opponents logical fallacies and expose them

5) Research and Identify unsubstantiated claims by my opponents and expose them

6) Identify personal flames by my opponents and expose them

7) Ignore any and all claims/questions made by my opponents that contain or are wrapped in logical fallacies or personal flames

I will not change this approach to my debating. People get angry when I perform steps number 4 - 6 especially. Most notably young people. They do not like someone going behind their backs and researching their claims or asking them to support what they say. This makes them mad because they are not used to someone doing this to them. This causes them to have an irresistible urge to toss in a personal attack, which only furthers the chasm in the discussion. Only...and only if someone can talk with me w/o personal flames, will I recirpocate curtosey and have a mature and reasonable discussion with them. THat is harder than it sounds, however, as you can see many people like to "insert" little flames at me. heh, but I don't mind. Don't expect me to respond to you if you do!!

HOpefully, all of you have noticed something about me: if you ask me to back up something I say- I do it. I have also noticed something about many of you. If I ask you to back up something you say....you do not. THis is most unfortunate. Yet it is true nontheless. In rare cases, I have been asked to back up something I say and I realize that I cannot. One case was where Nyar asked me to back up the claim that 2 soldiers who killed girls in Korea were punished. I could not verify that, so I rescinded my comments. I will always take back something I say that I cannot give evidence for. This is something that many of you do not do.

Now, on with the rants!!! ;)

[Anathema]

Strange how you didn't have time to reply to my arguments in the other day, but did have time to make a long post about whiteys.

About the chemical weapons the US sold, I don't have an internet source and right now not the time to look for one. If somebody would be willing to search for it, it would be most appreciated (by me as well as Emp, I'm sure).

(note that Ordos45 also made a post about the chem weapons the US sold Sadam)

[emprworm]

Strange how you didn't have time to reply to my arguments in the other day, but did have time to make a long post about whiteys.

About the chemical weapons the US sold, I don't have an internet source and right now not the time to look for one. If somebody would be willing to search for it, it would be most appreciated (by me as well as Emp, I'm sure).

(note that Ordos45 also made a post about the chem weapons the US sold Sadam)

well for that i apologize for not talking to you. i assure you it wasn't malicious or deliberate on my part. To be honest, I find the notion that Bush sold gas weapons to Hussein preposterous. I have never ever heard of anything like that. most of his weapons were destroyed in the Gulf war anyway. the 30,000 canisters of gas he has...EVEN IF the US sold him Sarine in the 1980's (which I doubt highly)...but EVEN IF we did, those 30,000 canisters he has now are NOT US material. i find that notion to be pure, unfettered propoganda. i have learned in this anti-US forum to filter this kind of stuff out. I meant no insult. Its just I heard this kind of thing soooooooooo sooooooooooooo soooooooooooo much in here.

The US wants to invade the world!

The US caused third world poverty!

The US is to blame for all terrorism!

The US gave biological weapons to Bin Laden

The US caused my dog to #$$! on my carpet!!

I dont mean this to insult anyone, but since this is a rant thread....

All of that to me is just teenage ranting. It is meaningless tripe. Pure anti-american rubbish void of rational thought and not condusive to meaningful discussion. If someone is actually going to tell me that the US is the cause for third world poverty, they better darn well come to the table with a fistfull of evidence, or I will toss it out like the trash it is. Then get accused of "not listening" lol! whatever.

i just tune it all out my friend.

[quoudam72]

Your getting boring Emprworm do what you are suppose to do and stop playing around. >:(

[Edric O]

You've been wanting to do this for a long time now. Here I am. All vulnerable, with palms facing upwards. Let it out, TMA. Release your anger. I know there is more. Let that inner child speak what he's been wanting to say for so long. Lemme have it!!!

Is it just me or is he beginning to sound like Emperor Palpatine? (star wars)

"Release your anger... pick up your saber and strike me down with all your hatred! Yes... good..."

[ordos45]

Actually he's sounding like a little child who isn't getting his way, not Emperor Palpatine.

However I have yet to see

The US wants to invade the world!

The US caused third world poverty!

The US is to blame for all terrorism!

The US gave biological weapons to Bin Laden

The US caused my dog to #$$! on my carpet!!

In which case, Empr is doing a better job of bashing our country than any non-American is.

[Terror]

well emprwrm, i dunno what to say... but you are so pro american, and compare the USA to all the other countries and always come to the conclusion that the USA is always better, in everything. I wonder what propaganda they spread in your neighbourhood to think that USA is best. That's what i so goddamn hate about the americans, what do they say after 9/11? We are america, we are the best, noone can beat us. YOU STUPID FOOLS! you have just been beaten real hard and still you are telling that America is the best. It only tempts people to attack the US again, and again and again. War may not be bad, but arrogance is almost as evil.

[emprworm]

well emprwrm, i dunno what to say... but you are so pro american, and compare the USA to all the other countries and always come to the conclusion that the USA is always better, in everything. I wonder what propaganda they spread in your neighbourhood to think that USA is best. That's what i so goddamn hate about the americans, what do they say after 9/11? We are america, we are the best, noone can beat us. YOU STUPID FOOLS! you have just been beaten real hard and still you are telling that America is the best. It only tempts people to attack the US again, and again and again. War may not be bad, but arrogance is almost as evil.

lol! :D this is what I encounter in this forum. Wow. What a beautiful example of what I am talking about.

of course, I never said America is best about anything. but militarily, i really don't think anyone can defeat us. but that is not the same as saying america is better than anyone.

"I SUPPORT GEORGE W BUSH". How does that statement make you feel? Are you getting angry as you read that? All of the sudden I want to conquer the world now right? All of the sudden, I am superior to you now right?

*rolls eyes* ::)

[Terror]

no, it's the fact that you do not even look, or even ACCEPT other peoples opinions if they are not pro america. I'm not saying that US is good or bad, but if you think that people who are not PRO america are just stupid and don't know anything about it than i just don't know what to think of you...

[Acriku]

I don't see how the WTC towers going down beat us hard, they hindered our economy a bit to put it blaintly, but we still stand strong. If it was chaos then they beat us hard.

[Terror]

a bit? it had consequences all over the world. I hear compaints constantly that the economy has suffered heavily from that attack

[Dunenewt]

Not that heavily, there was just a bit of confusion afterwards

[Terror]

well it lasted over 6 months, and the world economy is dropping anyway. Airports lost a lot of money after the attack, and ofcourse, it killed over 2000 people, no American ever thought that that could happen

[Dunenewt]

There is denying that it didn't have a big impact

[emprworm]

no, it's the fact that you do not even look, or even ACCEPT other peoples opinions if they are not pro america. I'm not saying that US is good or bad, but if you think that people who are not PRO america are just stupid and don't know anything about it than i just don't know what to think of you...

ok. i will do you this honor and consider and look at your opinion. Lets take a look at it.

"well emprwrm, i dunno what to say... but you are so pro american"

I appreciate my country. I am happy that I live in a land where I can believe what I want. I enjoyed living in Europe also. When I lived in Europe, I could believe whatever I want. I was treated very rudely however, simply because I could not speak each of the European languages (some German- i was not treated rude there). Other than that, though, I felt safe and free there. I loved it- probably the best time of my life.

"and compare the USA to all the other countries and always come to the conclusion that the USA is always better,"

I do not recall ever going out of my way to compare the US to other countries. Did I make posts like "US Compared to Korea" or "US compared to UK"....I dont recall doing that. I have compared militaries, however, and the US military is the most powerful on earth. I really don't see how this is debatable or why that makes me a bigot. Its just a simple analytical, statistical fact. Why get mad over it?

"I wonder what propaganda they spread in your neighbourhood to think that USA is best. "

Twisting my words. Here is what I claim: ANY nation that upholds religious and personal freedom for its citizens IS BETTER than one that doesn't. What does this mean?

Canada is better than Saudi Arabia

Mexico is better than Saudi Arabia

the US is better than Saudi Arabia

Europe is better than Saudi Arabia

Countries that sentence you to death just for saying "I don't believe in God" like Acriku would say are INFERIOR to countries that allow all citizens to believe or disbelieve in whatever god(s) they want.

This is not pro-USA. This is pro-freedom.

"That's what i so #$#$#$ (profanity removed) hate about the americans, what do they say after 9/11?"

THis is just anti-american bigotry. I do not give any credence or time to this kind of hate-spew. It is just more of the same "I HATE US" rhetoric. *yawn*

"We are america, we are the best, noone can beat us. "

Militarily, I do not think anyone can beat us, yes. That is not arrogance, it is just my statistical analysis of our military technology.

"YOU STUPID FOOLS!"

more hate speech and anti-american bias.

"you have just been beaten real hard and still you are telling that America is the best."

beaten by what? surely you dont think being attacked is equivalent to being beaten? You do know what happened in Afghanistan,....don't you?

"It only tempts people to attack the US again, and again and again."

Thats because people are evil. People cannot contain their hatred and want to kill others.

[nemafakei]

"Answers: No"

Oh, dear. I really do pity you.

"1) Research

2) Do not personally attack

3) Avoid logical fallacies

4) Identify my opponents logical fallacies and expose them

5) Research and Identify unsubstantiated claims by my opponents and expose them

6) Identify personal flames by my opponents and expose them

7) Ignore any and all claims/questions made by my opponents that contain or are wrapped in logical fallacies or personal flames"

No wonder... that is, there seems to be a certain omission here.

Well, anyway, if you won't be take advice in this thread about how to debate, I see very little point in it... I cannot think of an remotely honest reason for you even to have started this thread, except to try to divert opposition to your style of debating to here.

[ordos45]

No, he just likes the attention I think.

[TMA_1]

he knows what people think of him so he is trying to fade with some sort of twisted glory. That isnt a flame, its just an observation I have come up with.

[emprworm]

"Answers: No"

"Oh, dear. I really do pity you. "

Uh, ok.

"No wonder... that is, there seems to be a certain omission here."

Each person has their own style. Maybe mine doesn't match yours. Well, thats ok with me.

"Well, anyway, if you won't be take advice in this thread about how to debate, I see very little point in it"

allright. I wont try to force my views on anyone. If you do not want to talk to me, I will respect that wish and not talk to you.

"... I cannot think of an remotely honest reason for you even to have started this thread, except to try to divert opposition to your style of debating to here."

well I can think of a couple....namey since I started it.

#1) Give people a seperate place where they can hurl rants at me w/o taking a thread off topic and having it locked.

#2) Give people a chance to give me feedback so I can listen to their views/advice and consider what they have to say.

Thank you for your input.

[Dunenewt]

No, he just likes the attention I think.

lol, I can't blame him

I seem to be the quiet one of this forum

[TMA_1]

empr proves everybodies point. As a matter of fact. I think empr has done something amazingly good. He has brought people who usually dont talk, to be good friends for one purpose. THanks empr for that.