Edric O Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 Now let's see what a poor homeless man from a rough American neighbourhood and who was never given a chance in life would say...I don't have a home. I sleep on cold pavement tiles.I eat once a day (I dont exactly find something to eat every day, but I do most times). I don't have health insurance. And I know if I needed medical assistence in a non-emergency, no one would care. There is a number called "911" where I know if I call, help will most likely arrive soon. Too bad I don't have a phone...I don't have a job.I don't have a car.I live in a place where there is crime on the streets.Warlords and clans do not make the law here. Corrupt corporate CEO's and their hired hitmen do.I do not have to fear a bunch of clan thugs riding around piled in jeeps and pickups armed with Ak47's on my city streets. I only have to fear the whims of rich millionaires who are above the law because they can BUY anything and anyone.
Acriku Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 All I can say is, sucks for him. With myself, I have built myself throughout my education, and lucky enough to have a supporting family, and will work my way to having my own house, so I am not in the least bit sympathetic to the homeless. The homeless in my area get to go to lunchrooms with free food, with everything handed to them, well if they want to live their lives that way then fine. I am living mine my own way, and living it to the fullest.
Edric O Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 Errr, read my post in the context of Emprworm's previous post. This isn't about the homeless, I just used a homeless man as an example.I completely and absolutely disagree with your opinion on the homeless, but this is not the place to discuss that...
Acriku Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 Oh thought you were quoting from a real homeless person... hmm ok.
emprworm Posted February 18, 2003 Author Posted February 18, 2003 All I can say is, sucks for him. With myself, I have built myself throughout my education, and lucky enough to have a supporting family, and will work my way to having my own house, so I am not in the least bit sympathetic to the homeless. The homeless in my area get to go to lunchrooms with free food, with everything handed to them, well if they want to live their lives that way then fine. I am living mine my own way, and living it to the fullest.good for you, Acriku. For this post, I have respect. I see scores problems in America, but I see much good...no, ....great good in fact. Calling the US a #$$! hole when you live here is....well....u have the right too, but it confounds me. It really does.
nemafakei Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 There is more to a country than just democratic freedoms and economic liberty.
emprworm Posted February 18, 2003 Author Posted February 18, 2003 there is more, but those are the most important.ask anyone who has had them taken away.
Edric O Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 there is more, but those are the most important.ask anyone who has had them taken away.Such as me, for example.Yes, I agree that democratic freedoms are the most important thing. And if you can create a system that gives yet more freedom to the people, that's even better.On the other hand, economic liberty is totally irrelevant...
emprworm Posted February 18, 2003 Author Posted February 18, 2003 there is more, but those are the most important.ask anyone who has had them taken away.i meant to add more to this but i clicked send too quick.Of all the qualities of a country (that I can think of), freedom is the only one that people die for (maybe there are others but I cant think of any). It is for freedom that people from all walks of life, all times in history have sought, have dreamed, have bled for, and have died for. I do believe a guy named William Wallace was from your neck of the woods fighting for the Scotts. Freedom is by far the most important sought out quality of human beings in government far and above any other. I think history shows us this (which is why the anti-war movement really astounds me. You actually think the Iraqi people WANT dictatorship? To anyone who does: You are insane. Ask the 100,000 Iraqi refugess around the world.) People die for freedom.That same freedom that TMA has.The freedom that was given to him, through blood, by many before him- and who spill it to this day so he can keep it.That same freedom he has, yet to the country that gives it to him he calls a #$%! hole.yea, i can only imagine what WIlliam Wallace would have thought of TMA.
Acriku Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 This reminds me of an Emily Dickinson poem - "Success is counted sweetest"Success is counted sweetestBy those who ne'er succeed.To comprehend a nectarRequires sorest need. Is the excerpt in mind.
nemafakei Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 "You actually think the Iraqi people WANT dictatorship?"Take a look at party politics. Without the consent of the country, the UN, the parliament, or anyone, 'The honourable member for Texas', as he has been called, can take Britain to war. And has suggested he will. What, really is dictatorship?Freedom is not, however, in of itself, an end. Democratic freedom is a tool to an end. The end being good decisions. It's a relatively good tool, but still a tool. Bear this in mind always.
Gobalopper Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 Nema I highly doubt that Blair is risking his political career because George Bush told him he had to.
emprworm Posted February 18, 2003 Author Posted February 18, 2003 reedom is not, however, in of itself, an end. Democratic freedom is a tool to an end. The end being good decisions. It's a relatively good tool, but still a tool. Bear this in mind always. that is pretty vague. who judges a "good decision?"Freedom is always a good decision. The means to freedom has always been blood. THere is no reason to think it will be any different today. Humans in power don't give it up. It IS a worthy cause and a good decision. White caucasions are trying to decide for the Iraqi people. THis is a bad decision. The Iraqi people world wide who have fled Iraq have testified that their people are under oppression and desire freedom. We also know that Saddam is a ruthless dictator who has gassed his own people. He executes those who speaks against him and has lied repeatedly to the UN. It is a GOOD decision to remove him. This is not a white caucasion decision, but an Iraqi decision...the decision of her own people. THose world wide who want to return home when Saddam is removed. THey decide, and we help them. I am PRO-IRAQ. The bad decision is the Chamberlain appeasement decision. But freedom itself is always worthy, even though the price is...and has always been...blood.
Nyarlathotep Posted February 19, 2003 Posted February 19, 2003 i am not bashing any nation. i am bashing the fact that france is on the security council, I find their qualifications to be inept. That is not the same as me saying France is a pisshole. Dont put words in my mouth.Please?Thanks! Ehhrrr ?? What words did I put in your mouth ? I just stated that you can't condem others of something you do yourself as well.
nemafakei Posted February 19, 2003 Posted February 19, 2003 "risking his political career because George Bush told him he had to"He's trying to do a Thatcher.He's been failing to deliver on election promises, and wants a successful war to boost his popularity. He committed himself too early - before he knew what the people wanted.
Anathema Posted February 19, 2003 Posted February 19, 2003 Emp, quit the anti Euro bias please? Thank you.Aside from the fact that this isn't a UN war or a war of Iraqis, but Bush' little electoral war, the war against Iraq is sheer hypocracy.There are hundreds of similar (or even worse) dictatures all acros the world (of wich some of them helped by the US, like Iraq in the time that you did like them), yet you don't see Bush yelling at them.The current mess with Iraq is mostly caused by the western nations anyway. The US and the UK were among Iraqs greatest arms suplyers, and the US even gave Sadam some chemical weapons so they could gass Iranese.
emprworm Posted February 19, 2003 Author Posted February 19, 2003 i am not bashing any nation. i am bashing the fact that france is on the security council, I find their qualifications to be inept. That is not the same as me saying France is a pisshole. Dont put words in my mouth.Please?Thanks! Ehhrrr ?? What words did I put in your mouth ? I just stated that you can't condem others of something you do yourself as well. i called no country a pisshole. I am against France being on the Security COuncil, not France as a country. I acknowledge the historical fact that their military endeavors were utter failures and their credibility regarding world security has not been established. UNless you want to specifically tell me what country I bashed, stop putting words in my mouth. thanks.
emprworm Posted February 19, 2003 Author Posted February 19, 2003 Emp, quit the anti Euro bias please? Thank you.Aside from the fact that this isn't a UN war or a war of Iraqis, but Bush' little electoral war, the war against Iraq is sheer hypocracy.There are hundreds of similar (or even worse) dictatures all acros the world (of wich some of them helped by the US, like Iraq in the time that you did like them), yet you don't see Bush yelling at them.The current mess with Iraq is mostly caused by the western nations anyway. The US and the UK were among Iraqs greatest arms suplyers, and the US even gave Sadam some chemical weapons so they could gass Iranese.sorry but when I saw pictures of the war protests, I saw mostly white caucasion euro/americans. Now I understand there are those in Japan and some asian countries that are protesting, but no where near the volume of the white man. The one race of people...the ONE RACE of people I could not find, however, were Iraqi's. There are plenty of Iraqi's that do not live in Iraq. Where were they? They were favoring the coalition. The true hypocrisy and bigotry is not with the coalition, but with the white caucasion euro/americans who want to force their slavery upon the Iraqi people. 100,000 of them who cannot return home because of a maniacal dictator. millions more who live in oppression. The white man is showing to these Iraqi people that it supports their oppression and servitude. The caucasion white man once again oppressing people 1820 style.Who are all you white men, to tell these Iraqi's- 3,000 of them in one Arizona shelter alone, that they should not be able to return home to their families? They live in exile. Although they are grateful to the United States for allowing them refuge, they long for their homes. But the white man doesn't want them to return.
Nyarlathotep Posted February 19, 2003 Posted February 19, 2003 i called no country a pisshole. I am against France being on the Security COuncil, not France as a country. I acknowledge the historical fact that their military endeavors were utter failures and their credibility regarding world security has not been established. UNless you want to specifically tell me what country I bashed, stop putting words in my mouth. thanks.LOL.. I never said you called another country a pisshole.. talk about putting words in people's mouth... LOLAnyway, won't start the discussion here, cause it'll only result in you locking this thread again :)
emprworm Posted February 19, 2003 Author Posted February 19, 2003 i called no country a pisshole. I am against France being on the Security COuncil, not France as a country. I acknowledge the historical fact that their military endeavors were utter failures and their credibility regarding world security has not been established. UNless you want to specifically tell me what country I bashed, stop putting words in my mouth. thanks.LOL.. I never said you called another country a pisshole.. talk about putting words in people's mouth... LOLAnyway, won't start the discussion here, cause it'll only result in you locking this thread again :)You said " I just stated that you can't condem others of something you do yourself as well. " So tell me specifically what it was I condemned then what it was I said that was the same as the condemnation. That is two posts in a row you put accusations in my mouth that were vague and unclarified. Why do you speak for me? You know that is not in good taste. Right? Please, don't put accusations in my mouth unless you are willing to specify what they are, thanks. I wont lock the thread so long as you are willing to clarify the specific, exact words of what I "condemned" and then the specific, exact words of what I supported. Now, if all you are going to do is make another post putting accusations in my mouth, (the ole' typical circular argument from prior locked threads) then yea, another locked thread will most likely result.Your next post will hopefully be the specific words or drop it. Thanks.
Acriku Posted February 19, 2003 Posted February 19, 2003 Emprworm, you said it was pathetic for other people to bash other countries, Nyar said don't condem others for something you do yourself, and then you said he was putting words in your mouth. You have bashed other countries, especially France, even if it may not have been your exact words, you said it puts it all in perspective.. The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?" but, rather, "How long until France collapses?" How France got on the Security Council of the UN is a mystery. A farce.
emprworm Posted February 19, 2003 Author Posted February 19, 2003 Emprworm, you said it was pathetic for other people to bash other countries, Nyar said don't condem others for something you do yourself, and then you said he was putting words in your mouth. You have bashed other countries, especially France, even if it may not have been your exact words, you said it puts it all in perspective.. The question for any country silly enough to count on the French should not be "Can we count on the French?" but, rather, "How long until France collapses?" How France got on the Security Council of the UN is a mystery. A farce. Acriku, with all due respect I am asking Nyar. I want him to tell me...not you...specifically what it was that I condemened and then supported. I want to see if he is going to put words in my mouth :D I want to know precisely what he is accusing me of because right now, he is shoving an accusaion in my mouth. And I know that Nyar, of all people, would never put words in someones mouth that they did not say.SO I anxiously await his prompt clarification on his accusation that reads: "you can't condem others of something you do yourself as well." This is an accusation.One that he is putting in my mouth.I want some clarification on precisely what it is he is accusing me of.But I want it from Nyar. THanks. ;)
Acriku Posted February 19, 2003 Posted February 19, 2003 I wasn't as much replying to your post talking to Nyar as much as I was witnessing this quarrel and trying to put an end to it.
emprworm Posted February 19, 2003 Author Posted February 19, 2003 I wasn't as much replying to your post talking to Nyar as much as I was witnessing this quarrel and trying to put an end to it.well thanks for your attempt at mediation, and I am willing to let it drop. As I said earlier, Nyar can either respond with some specifics or drop it. Either is cool with me, just no more posts putting accusations in my mouth without some specific clarification. I like to resolve conflicts and unless Nyar comes clean and specific, how can I address it? If I bashed something in Nyar's view, I'd like to know what it was so I can help resolve and clarify what it is I intended to say.
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