emprworm Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 You really don't get it do you ? Do you even read what you get presented ? Stop asking for evidence if you don't even bother to read it all. If you don't, your wasting the time of others.i read it. what part about kidnapping do you not understand? How would the Netherlands feel if the US went down to Argentina and arrested some Dutch people and brought them to the US for trial? Do you get that? Is it clear yet? THe US did not sign a treaty under the World Court system. You have no jurisdiction over a US citizen. Now, I understand the insatiable thirst that other people have for control over other countries citizens, but we are not under your control. What part of that is not clear? You have no right to detain someone that is not under your jurisdiction unless you want a skirmish. Do you want a skirmish? If not, then don't kidnap foreign citizens. Thanks.
emprworm Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 I like how we force other nation's peoples to go and be sentanced for international war crimes, but americans get off scott free. I agree that this is a sick thing the president is doing. I hope you can forgive our nation for acting so irrationally.we have never done that. if you know of an example, please cite it.
Nyarlathotep Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 You really don't get it do you ? Do you even read what you get presented ? Stop asking for evidence if you don't even bother to read it all. If you don't, your wasting the time of others.i read it. what part about kidnapping do you not understand? How would the Netherlands feel if the US went down to Argentina and arrested some Dutch people and brought them to the US for trial? Do you get that? Is it clear yet? THe US did not sign a treaty under the World Court system. You have no jurisdiction over a US citizen. Now, I understand the insatiable thirst that other people have for control over other countries citizens, but we are not under your control. What part of that is not clear? You have no right to detain someone that is not under your jurisdiction unless you want a skirmish. Do you want a skirmish? If not, then don't kidnap foreign citizens. Thanks.It's not kidnapping, like said read what you get presented ! It's about soldiers comiting a crime. Crimes need to be punished. No matter where you're from. I want to bet that you'd agree that if a American civilion would get stabbed, that the person who stabbed him got punished right ? Sure you do, so stop making a fool of yourself.
Anathema Posted February 10, 2003 Author Posted February 10, 2003 > The Dutch parliament was shocked over a US legislative proposal, > currently before Congress, that would give a green light to a US invasion > of the Netherlands should it be deemed necessary to free American citizens > and service members taken into custody under the auspices of the > International Criminal Court (ICC), which becomes active from 1 July.And don't give me that crap about your jurisdiction. We are not talking about taking car thieves from American soil, we are talking about American soldiers who commit war crimes in foreign land. Your jurisdiction doesn't cover the whole world.
Nyarlathotep Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 I like how we force other nation's peoples to go and be sentanced for international war crimes, but americans get off scott free. I agree that this is a sick thing the president is doing. I hope you can forgive our nation for acting so irrationally.we have never done that. if you know of an example, please cite it.Oh man.. I thought you read the news and are up to date.. guess not. Start R E A D I N G the news.. I sure hope I was clear this time ::)
emprworm Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 It's not kidnapping, like said read what you get presented ! It's about soldiers comiting a crime. Crimes need to be punished. No matter where you're from. I want to bet that you'd agree that if a American civilion would get stabbed, that the person who stabbed him got punished right ? Sure you do, so stop making a fool of yourself. Crimes committed by an american are punished eitherA) In the country in which he committed the crime- i.e if you break the law in China and you are IN china, you can be punished under Chinese court or face a diplomatic nightmare.B) You are punished in the United States.But what will not happen is:C) You will be punished in the Netherlands.Comprende?The Netherlands and the World Court does NOT have world-wide jurisdiction. I know they like to think they do, but it is a delusion of grandeur.HOpefully this is a bit more clear.Note: US citizen comitting crime in the Netherlands is the only i repeat ONLY case where netherlands has jurisdiction.
Nyarlathotep Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 It's not kidnapping, like said read what you get presented ! It's about soldiers comiting a crime. Crimes need to be punished. No matter where you're from. I want to bet that you'd agree that if a American civilion would get stabbed, that the person who stabbed him got punished right ? Sure you do, so stop making a fool of yourself. Crimes committed by an american are punished eitherA) In the country in which he committed the crime- i.e if you break the law in China and you are IN china, you can be punished under Chinese court or face a diplomatic nightmare.B) You are punished in the United States.But what will not happen is:C) You will be punished in the Netherlands.Comprende?The Netherlands and the World Court does NOT have world-wide jurisdiction. I know they like to think they do, but it is a delusion of grandeur.HOpefully this is a bit more clear.Note: US citizen comitting crime in the Netherlands is the only i repeat ONLY case where netherlands has jurisdiction.You still don't get it... as I figured ::)btw, try the kids chat, maybe you can convince them of your views..
Anathema Posted February 10, 2003 Author Posted February 10, 2003 Come on Emp, you know you are arguing besides the point. If a soldier commits a war crime or causes harm because of negligence in the coming war in Iraq he shouldn't be put on a trial that listens to Sadams regime. Nor should he be judged by a court in his homeland, but by an objective, neutral court.
emprworm Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 the only thing I get is the netherlands delusion of grandeur who thinks that they can kidnap foreign citizens at their whim. the US does not agree to the terms of the European treaty for worldwide jurisdiction. The US does not cave into the European quest for world power over the human populace. europe would love...just love to sit in judgment over the citizens of the United States....not gonna happen. You don't like it, I know, but thats part of life. So I think it is in the netherlands best interest not to kidnap US citizens unless they are prepared for a little skirmish. ;)
nemafakei Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 You do realise that the netherlands is merely the geographical location for the trial, not the orchestrator of the legal system, don't you? You sound very much like you don't.
emprworm Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 Nor should he be judged by a court in his homeland, but by an objective, neutral court.ROFL! The LAST thing that any European court would be over an American soldier is neutral and objective. LOL! That is the very REASON why the US refuses to sign the treaty- European inbred anti-americanism obviously voids any potential for fairness. War crimes committed by US citizens are punished here, as it would be by a war crime committed by a Briton or anyone else- unless that home country AGREES to authority of the world court. If the home country does not agree to its authority, then the soldier will be punished in his homeland. If punishement is not enough to satisfy the rest of the world, then diplomatic/economic sufferings will occurr. This is how it works--it is how it always has worked
emprworm Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 You do realise that the netherlands is merely the geographical location for the trial, not the orchestrator of the legal system, don't you? You sound very much like you don't.uhhh, yes i do, but I am talking to a couple of Dutch people so I wanted to bring it on a personal level ;)after all itt was they who said "bush invades the netherlands"
nemafakei Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 Well, he would whether or not the Dutch were to blame...
Nyarlathotep Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 Why do you always insist on others accepting your view, but you can't have a mind for theirs ? And you keep on rambling about kidnapping, no one even said a word here about kidnapping. You can't even back up half of what you say, yet you demand others to do it.Nevertheless, it seems as long as you agree to things it's okay, but everything else is just crap. You say that civiliants are ignorant, you accuse Edric 0 of posting crap. Don't touch Emp's little precious world, or feel the wrath of America. You my friend show what a dictator acts like and how he profiles himslef. Well done showing. Now step out of your little precious world and get real for once.
emprworm Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 this whole thread is utter stupidity. it states that Bush will invade the netherlands! ROFL. It is utter brainless leftist propoganda in its extreme intellectual depravity. Void of even a smoldering tittle of rational thought, it's decrepid stench oozing as a viscuous infected purulent tubercle spreading out like a virulent pandemic creep, sliming itself into every nook and crook of objective reality and sound reason.
Nyarlathotep Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 this whole thread is utter stupidity. it states that Bush will invade the netherlands! ROFL. It is utter brainless leftist propoganda in its extreme intellectual depravity. Void of even a smoldering tittle of rational thought, it's decrepid stench oozing as a viscuous infected purulent tubercle spreading out like a virulent pandemic creep, sliming itself into every nook and crook of objective reality and sound reason.Oh, emp loses a discusion and he needs to back out. *claps*...
IxianMace Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 It is utter brainless leftist propoganda in its extreme intellectual depravity. Void of even a smoldering tittle of rational thought, it's decrepid stench oozing as a viscuous infected purulent tubercle spreading out like a virulent pandemic creep, sliming itself into every nook and crook of objective reality and sound reason.Wow, nice use of language. Could you make that go any longer? ;) I was beginning to have difficulty reading it towards the 'virulent pandemic creep' part, since I was laughing. :DAnyway, by the date on the article that Earthnuker originally posted, I don't think it was meant to be taken seriously.
emprworm Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 Oh, emp loses a discusion and he needs to back out. *claps*...yea, this is from a guy that shows his top-notch debating skills completely void of personal attacks and full of objective reason. Let us review, shall we?"btw, try the kids chat, maybe you can convince them of your views.. ""Sure you do, so stop making a fool of yourself""Oh man.. I thought you read the news and are up to date.. guess not. Start R E A D I N G the news.. I sure hope I was clear this time ""Like I said in the other thread, Bush and his buddies can sink down deep in a huge pile of shit and preferably stay there. ""You don't know jack sh*t about what some members do here, who the h*ll are you to start of this rant ?? And if you start one, don't do it in anyone else's name, but have a backbone and start one for your reasons""And a great come back. Like I said, stop using others as a shield for your personal rant. Common, show your great ability to debate Oh wait, you don't have any.. sorry... "yea, I can see that Nyar is in a dispotion for reasonable dialoge with me. ::)It seems that every time you post in response to me, there is a nice little personal flame embedded in it. I have noticed this about you.If you ever lose your personal attacks, it might be condusive to beneficial conversation, till then, yea, I'll be backing out.
Edric O Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 Oh, I see, so you want your little soldiers to be able to rape Iraqi women and kill Iraqi children without facing justice?And you don't want Europe to interfere with your global imperialism?Very well, then I suggest you get all your ****ing troops off our continent, and never come back!! How would that be?
emprworm Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 Oh, I see, so you want your little soldiers to be able to rape Iraqi women and kill Iraqi children without facing justice?And you don't want Europe to interfere with your global imperialism?Very well, then I suggest you get all your ****ing troops off our continent, and never come back!! How would that be?uhhhh....whatever.
Edric O Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 By the way, please bring at least a shread of proof as to why your average American military court is better and more objective than the War Crimes Tribunal...Let me guess: Because Americans are better than everyone else? ::)
number6 Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 I am normally a Bush supporter, but I think he dropped the ball on signing the American Service Members Protection Act (aka Hague Invasion Act) into law. It sends the wrong message to our allies. The U.S. has one of the best trained militaries in the world and the likelihood of one our service members actually violating the international codes of war is slim. The way the International Criminal Court (ICC) is set up even if one of our troops is in violation of codes of war our government still has the right to put our own people on trial. I don't see why the U.S. government needs to be exempt of laws that the rest of the civilized world agrees to.
emprworm Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 << You Have Blocked This Message >> Loggedsorry, this is all I see now. I unblocked you to see a couple of your recent posts, but I saw they were just more hatemongering Hitler comparisons, so back on the block list. It is better this way.Just a FYI: (and dont bother responding because I wont see it)- The United States of America helped to defeat Adolph Hitler and the greatest sufferers of his tyrrany- the Jewish people to this day would never dare have the irrational, hateful bigoted audacity to superimpose a swastika over the nation of the United States.
Acriku Posted February 10, 2003 Posted February 10, 2003 Ok emprworm I suggest you back out, or really clean up your posts. This is getting (getting? said bob) childish. It is my opinion that the military tribunal in America is a great system, and finds many guilty and many not guilty. But there is obviously a higher chance of slighted jurers in America trying an American, than in a neutral country to the matter. Not to say there would be, but a higher possibility.
Edric O Posted February 11, 2003 Posted February 11, 2003 Ha ha ha... poor little Emprworm can't face an opposing opinion, can he? He feels the need to ignore me and live in his perfect dream world where Bush is taking good care of him. ::)Oh, just for the record - It was the Soviets who liberated the vast majority of death camps (for the simple reason that they were in Eastern Europe). And the Soviets would have won the war anyway, with or without the USA's help.
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