Something GOOD Bush did- or do you think he is too evil to do anything good?

[Anathema]

Regardless of what a person did, executing someone is still killing.

[emprworm]

killing yes, but not unjust.

your fallacy is that you equate killing with unjust

murder is unjust. there is a difference

[nampigai]

I'd rather led 10 murderes walk than killing one innocent, but then again it's a lot cheaper to just give them an injection or hanging that's even cheaper.

[IxianMace]

Well in the first place, what right do we have to decide whether or not someone is worthy of living? IMHO, death should only be given to someone that has killed someone else, i.e. the punishment fits the crime. Therefore, a life for a life. Just my 2 solaris. :- :-X

[emprworm]

intersting logic.

1 innocent dead + 10 murderers gone

is morally better than....

numberous innocents dead + 10 murderers on the streets killing more children.

[nampigai]

I think you'll see it the same way if you got the capital punishment and you knew you were innocent right?

[emprworm]

ixianmace, that is what capital punishment is. you take someone's life in cold blood, you CHOOSE to forfeit your life. Its a choice the murderer makes. Society is not choosing to put him to death. All murderers know about the death penalty, when they murder, they chose, of their own free will, to forfeit their life.

[IxianMace]

Well what about situations like if someone was drunk? Perhaps he got into a fight and accidentally killed someone. Did he chose, at that point to deliberately and knowingly forfeit his life? Does he now deserve the death penalty, because he has killed someone?

[emprworm]

no, killing innocents is bad. i do not support that. i support capital punishment. of course, you cannot make the system fullproof, but 1 in 10 innocents to guilt is too high a ratio. for death penalty, there must be really really solid proof, IMHO.

[emprworm]

ixian, people are not put to death for killing in a drunken stooper. that is not murder #1. Only Murder #1 gets you death (premeditated). Murder #2 (drunken stooper) gets you life

case in point: serial snipers of washington DC.

they will be executed...and rightly so

[IxianMace]

Ok, well I guess I don't know how the system works there then. I didn't know there were several "kinds" of murder. Murder is murder. But anyway, :-X

[emprworm]

yes there is first degree, second, and third degree murders.

only first degree gets death penalty.

there is also manslaughter which is accidental death

[nampigai]

Well still I do not support the capital punishment, and I don't think I ever will.

[emprworm]

"Well still I do not support the capital punishment, and I don't think I ever will"

what about the serial snipers of washington DC? How about the nazi's captured during the War Crimes Tribunal?

[Anathema]

Don't let them walk, imprison them. If a person turns out not guilty afterall, he can be released and compensated for his unjust imprisonment. You can't turn around a death penalty.

As far as I am concerned, there are two goals with punishment.

- Let the criminal realise the error of his ways, and reeducate him

- Safeguarding society

And what is accomplished with death penalty? The family of the victim would probably be glad the murderer is dead, but I don't see how that could be any reason for killing someone.

[emprworm]

"As far as I am concerned, there are two goals with punishment.

- Let the criminal realise the error of his ways, and reeducate him

- Safeguarding society"

lol! what ever happened to justice? what ever happened to deterrence?

man your society would be a bloodbath. people hate each other earthnuker. look at the world.

if you stake your hopes on some grandiose Buddha like "ascension" of man that you can rehabillitate everyone so that there is one big happy world, you are mistaken. A land w/o justice is a land of death.

[Anathema]

Your point? What's wrong with imprisoning murderers rather then killing them? If there is no hope of rehabilitation (happens often), then they shoud be imprisoned for life.

And deterrence? I think it's repugnant you even suggest that. If someone steals a bread, he should be killed so that people won't do it as quickly again? Heck, I have an even better idea. Broadcast the execution on TV! That's bound to scare off a whole lot of potential criminals! This is not about justice, this is about making an example of one.

[emprworm]

"If someone steals a bread, he should be killed so that people won't do it as quickly again?"

Justice must prevail over deterrence.

When punishment fits the crime, you have deterrence. Killing someone for stealing bread is not justice. Neither is chopping off their hands as Muslims do. Its interesting to see people come to the defense of murderers but when it comes to the innocent unborn, they are the first to let them die.

backwards, aren't we?

[Anathema]

So you think it is just to kill a murderer? An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth?

[nampigai]

so the doctors and parents should be killed too?

as I said I couldn't decide to go with a abortion, if I was in the situation, however I find it up to the parents to make it not me.

[emprworm]

"So you think it is just to kill a murderer? An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth?

[nampigai]

well IMO it's wrong to base justice upon the bible. Some Islamic states does (not using the bible obviously) with the Sharia law. I don't suport that either. I read a news article a few days ago, where a young man was hanged for being cought while being drunk for the third time.

I know you're aren't supporting this emprworm, what I'm saying is that I find death sentences very unhuman. I haven't studied the bible much, I have one but don't really read it. Yet from what I've learned God seemed to be alot more violent in the beginning and then when Jesus came we learned a new thing, to turn the other cheek.

[Dante]

for God is unchanging.

Why is there an old and new testament then? Not that I'm disagreeing or anything, just curious. Surely if it was man's doing then God would have dome something about it?

[emprworm]

turning the cheeck, ect: those things apply to indiviuals. a society MUST have justice or it will be anarchy. unless you punish murderers and I'm not referring to spening billions on them for psycho-analysis, but justice for their crimes, unless you are a just nation, your streets will be tainted with blood. The bible does not support a man being hanged for drinking. That man was hanged because he lives in an unjust society where murder goes unpunished. Those men who murdered that man should be tried, and if found guilty, executed (if premeditated). Might make others think twice before murdering someone in cold blood.

[nampigai]

I agree that there must be justice yes, but still I'll never vote yes for the capital punishment. I'd rather send them to prison regardless of the cost, I think we'll be able to afford it.

As for the man being hanged I again agree with you (spooky I know), I don't think I'd last long if the Sharia came to my country.