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QM and 56k


DukeLeto
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[rant]I just got my new cable connection installed (yay! ;D) and I went online to play an Emporer QM match. I was matched against somebody, dunno, John-something-or-other, that's not important. The game was hideously laggy. I know it wasn't me; I had just been playing Renagade online, and there was no lag at all!

Anyways, people actually play QM with 56k connections? I didn't; I thought it would be rude. Frankly, I still think it's rude. Custom, fine. But QM is a bit more, well, important.[/rant]

So, where do you all stand?

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I forget who posted it but the average size of the per second packages emp sends amongs the players is something like 3kb/s. So even a 14.4 modem will still be fine if it connects to a reliable service and maintains high capacity.

As Vilgent said, the combonation of both graphics and computer specs is most important. Among computer specs, I would say your video card is the most determining factor if you run emperor on anything but low graphics. After that, it would be RAM, followed by CPU type and speed. Connection isn't important...

If his connection was so utterly bad then the game would not have been slow, it would have been laggy, meaning that the game moves quickly but commands take a long time to execute from the point of issue to initiation.

The worst is when you get a person with like a 486 computer on a rickety 14.4 modem living dozens of clicks from their ISP on the opposite side of the planet...Then it's both unbearably slow and ridiculously laggy.

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When u have high details and ya PC isnt fast enough the game will be slow but not laggy ! laggy games are caused by Connection! and yeah u could play with a 56k pretty fine but u have to have a low latancy(low ping) then its good, but when ya ping to high is the game will start to lag ! So u can say its not the PC, cause the game has the same speed the whole time but its very slow and lags r caused by connection how i said ...

greetz slim2011

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[rant]I just got my new cable connection installed (yay! ;D) and I went online to play an Emporer QM match. I was matched against somebody, dunno, John-something-or-other, that's not important. The game was hideously laggy. I know it wasn't me; I had just been playing Renagade online, and there was no lag at all!

Anyways, people actually play QM with 56k connections? I didn't; I thought it would be rude. Frankly, I still think it's rude. Custom, fine. But QM is a bit more, well, important.[/rant]

So, where do you all stand?

You already stated the problem, only with the wrong conclusion. When you've played Renegade online, be sure to reboot (for any game actually). Most of the times games/OS will not free the resources used for whatever you played. I've noticed this and when a memory defrag all was okay (reboot would do the same).

The connection speed one has, has absolutely nothing to do with the lag one experiances in a game. ACElethal is right, games like EBDF and Renegade do not send that much kbps per second (Although I think it's a bit more then 3 though), but almost any dial up connection is capable of running the game(s).

Most people experiance lag (like vilgent stated) due to graphical settings. And if one joins a game with a ping of more then a second, I'd say you're begging for lag.

In your case it could very well be that you needed to reboot (or defrag ram) before you started to play EBFD. Not saying that this caused the problem, but I've experianced the same prob. After I defragged ram the problem was gone. I also admit that Windows XP has a much better way of freeing resources after the program has terminated.

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Woo Hoo! I just got my cable modem back yesterday! Bring on the downloads!!

And oh yeah back to the Generals beta test Woo Hoo!! 8)

Great! Mino's ready, Open Fire! Fire at will ... DJCid defeated. ;D See ya in the game Mate!

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[rant]I just got my new cable connection installed (yay! ;D) and I went online to play an Emporer QM match. I was matched against somebody, dunno, John-something-or-other, that's not important. The game was hideously laggy. I know it wasn't me; I had just been playing Renagade online, and there was no lag at all!

Anyways, people actually play QM with 56k connections? I didn't; I thought it would be rude. Frankly, I still think it's rude. Custom, fine. But QM is a bit more, well, important.[/rant]

So, where do you all stand?

You already stated the problem, only with the wrong conclusion. When you've played Renegade online, be sure to reboot (for any game actually). Most of the times games/OS will not free the resources used for whatever you played. I've noticed this and when a memory defrag all was okay (reboot would do the same).

The connection speed one has, has absolutely nothing to do with the lag one experiances in a game. ACElethal is right, games like EBDF and Renegade do not send that much kbps per second (Although I think it's a bit more then 3 though), but almost any dial up connection is capable of running the game(s).

Most people experiance lag (like vilgent stated) due to graphical settings. And if one joins a game with a ping of more then a second, I'd say you're begging for lag.

In your case it could very well be that you needed to reboot (or defrag ram) before you started to play EBFD. Not saying that this caused the problem, but I've experianced the same prob. After I defragged ram the problem was gone. I also admit that Windows XP has a much better way of freeing resources after the program has terminated.

i dont say the Connection it the reason for lags but it can be !

ya 56k is fast enough but what bring it when u have 56k and ya latancy is to high ? or ya ping is falling, rising, falling ... ??? ya nothing ! the speed must be constant and shouldnt have some "fluctuations"?

when the game is only slow but the speed constantly then its the GPU or CPU/RAM but when the game is "laggy" going, stop for a while then again and again and again... thats the connection(all connection.. cable,dsl,56k...) when u have a good ping u could play with 36k or something likethat !

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I'm on a 56k and I've played games that are just fine.....and I used to play QM's a little more than I do now. I am pretty sure there are times when general internet traffic can slow the game up....it makes sense anyway, heavier traffic should mean slower game. I'll leave the explanations to Nyar though =)

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Slim, hence the fact why I used connection speed.

The speed of the connection has absolutly nothing to do with the lag (I can't seem to say it enough). It doesn't mean that your provider can't screw up your connection though.

Latency, ping failing, it can happen on any connection, not just 56k and shouldn't be used as an argument.

Like you said, let's not forget the fact of normal internet traffic that travels along the same backbone/providers network as you do.

And some people still try to play 1280x1024, high graphical settings on a Pentium II 400. That ain't improving the situation either and a T3 isn't going to help in that case ::)

The discussion about connection speed causing the lag should end here and now.

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Grr, I guess I said the wrong thing here: I meant LATENCY. Like, when you click to build a unit or give an order, it takes some time to acknowledge it? I'm fairly certain that's affected ONLY by connection speed.

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Slim, hence the fact why I used connection speed.

The speed of the connection has absolutly nothing to do with the lag (I can't seem to say it enough). It doesn't mean that your provider can't screw up your connection though.

Latency, ping failing, it can happen on any connection, not just 56k and shouldn't be used as an argument.

Like you said, let's not forget the fact of normal internet traffic that travels along the same backbone/providers network as you do.

And some people still try to play 1280x1024, high graphical settings on a Pentium II 400. That ain't improving the situation either and a T3 isn't going to help in that case ::)

The discussion about connection speed causing the lag should end here and now.

ya i said it can be laggy with all connections ! and i dont mean the speed of the connection i mean only the PING LATANCY not your up or downlod !

and everytime when i play with someone who has a good ping ! but to high video setts then the game wasnt laggy it was constant slow no stop,go,stop,go ... ! but when i play someone with a bad connection Quality NOT speed ! it is laggy and he could have the lowest setts and the fastest PC it doesnt matter the game is laggy then so stop,go stop,go ... !

and sry for ma english :P

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Huh? What else affects latency?

Your provider most likely. It has absolutely (again) nothing to do with what connection speed a person has.

I'll try to explain a bit more how it works (maybe you already know, but here goes anyway):

56k:

You get an account from your provider and you dial in via the normal phone line. You reach the providers server on your own port (assigned just to you). After that, you go via a big tube acros their network, which connects to a Service providers backbone. Across that backbone you reach the other ends providers network and eventually, to the destination you want. You also get information back via the same way (obviously).

cable/dsl:

You get an account from your provider and you have a permanent connection. You reach the providers server on a shared port (you share this port with a certain amount of other users). After that, you go via a big tube across their network, which connects to a Service providers backbone. Across that backbone you reach the other ends providers network and eventually, to the destination you want. You also get information back via the same way (obviously).

The difference is in the italic part. With cable, as long as no one else, or not to many users use that same port (are using the internet at the same time), you'll be fine and you have an extremely fast connection (depending on your provider and what type of account you have). As more users use their internet, the slower you'll get (believe me, it can drop dramaticly). Internet providers even oversubscribe their ports in most cases, as they assume not to many people will go on the internet at the same time (if it does happen, they just say that the site must be busy, which can be, but surely not always). However as a side note, more providers in Holland for example are changing their way of working in this area.

With 56K, you'll always have a steady connection towards your provider. You do not share your port on their first server you hit.

After your service provider, you hit the backbone (my working area). Those service providers do exactly the same thing. Your service provider hits their port together with other internet providers (in most cases again oversubscribed).

However.. with games, the data that is being send back and forth (maybe more with loading maps) isn't that much and a 56k modem is capable of handling it pretty well. To give you an example, with Renegade, the data that's being send back and forth is 17k (seen in a regular battle).

The latency you talk about isn't due to the speed, but due to your provider (or problems on the backbone).

I hope this explanation makes it a bit more clear that speed has aboslutely nothing to do with lag in a game. Speed comes into play when you want to download large maps, mp3, downloading/watching movies, whatever. Then it will use the available bandwidth.

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I don't get it though...My 56k connection COULD NOT handle Renegade, but it was as stable as can be. It never once threw me offline. But it was SLOW. I have not TOUCHED my graphics settings. So why did it speed up, if the 56k modem SHOULD have been able to handle all of the data?

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I'll get this one for ya Doc.

The wires that the DSL/Cable run on transfer data faster and smoother to the site and back quicker then that of 56k. Further more in order to get a website downloaded on 56k you have to go through a larger string of things before the site comes up.

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I don't get it though...My 56k connection COULD NOT handle Renegade, but it was as stable as can be. It never once threw me offline. But it was SLOW. I have not TOUCHED my graphics settings. So why did it speed up, if the 56k modem SHOULD have been able to handle all of the data?

becouse maybe the packages are to big or u had a to high Latancy with some "fluctuations"? <---don't know if it right written ?!?

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I don't get it though...My 56k connection COULD NOT handle Renegade, but it was as stable as can be. It never once threw me offline. But it was SLOW. I have not TOUCHED my graphics settings. So why did it speed up, if the 56k modem SHOULD have been able to handle all of the data?

Duke, there are several reasons why that would happen. Like I said, re-read my explanation post.

The first line states:

"Your provider most likely. It has absolutely (again) nothing to do with what connection speed a person has.".

What could be is that they have a less bandwidth allocated for their dialup connections and are focussing on cable/dsl connections.

Out of curiousity, is the dial up provider the same as the cable/dsl one ?

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I read your info Nyar and I have to sympathsize with Leto's confusion.

I don't care if my provider is next to my house, if I'm using a phone line thats 20 years old and can only send or recieve 10kbps when the game wants 17kbps there will be lag/slowerplay/whateveryouwanttocallit. The same doesn't happen with cable, unless theres alot of ppl on the same port at once as you pointed out. When I talk about connection speed I naturally refer to the bottleneck, which in my experience is almost allways the phone line quality. Maybe leto was referring to his phone line but saying his 56K modem??

FWH

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