Abstinence until marraige--Yes or no?

[Terror]

I am trying to be euphemistic, and use words like indecency to mean 'sleeping around'. That sort of thing, whether or not STDs are spread, children are created from it, and so on occurs, should carry fines or other punishment. Obviously, knowingly ad therefore effectively deliberately causing the side-effects will carry larger punishments.

"In a way it's a part of our culture"

And slavery was part of our culture until a few ceturies ago. That doesn't make it right

that is a bad comparison Nema. This way you can say that everything is wrong, even though it is part of our culture. Slavery changed the lives of ppl. They were forced to do things they didn't want (damn i can't get the right words :- )

the things that we discussed here will not change the lives of anyone (GODDAMMIT IF YOU PPL COULD ONLY TALK DUTCH THAN I COULD MAKE SUCH NICE ARGUMENTS!)

[nemafakei]

I wasn't condemning indecency for being part of our society, I was merely saying that being part of a culture is no defence for evil.

[gryphon]

And slavery was part of our culture until a few ceturies ago. That doesn't make it right

I agree with that. And as such no comment to it.

But that doesn't make it a bad thing of our culture. There has te be an aspect judging it as such. Therefor in my opinion it doesn't make it wrong either.

[Digital Guerrilla]

Oh? You think all people just have sex to relieve their sexual desires do you? Do you honestly think that all people are so primitive that they have sex purely to relieve themselves?

Some people may view sex as something with which to 'emotionally' bond to or connect with their partner rather than just a physical experience. Do you see the point I'm making when I say 'have you sex with only someone you love'?

You are missing what I am saying. Sex whether emotionally or just for physical pleasure is still physical to some degree. I do not consider it primative because I have a desire for sexual intercourse and not realize that it is still a relieving taking place emotional or physical. My views about sex are not childish if you are as mature you will understand better if you read my post again.

[sneezer3]

I fail to see the point I think.

Public nudity is not allowed here, just as having intercorse when you know you have a sexcual transmittable virus.

The problem is not that people are doing it and you are "forced" to watch, but that those laws are not enforced.

And that's something totally different.

@ Edric O

I don't fully understand what you're saying in your reply to me. [ my mistake but hopefully you can and will be able to clearefy it a little :) ]

I'm not making the moral codes, and as much as I want to controle people around me and sociaty. . I realise I can't.

But here, well let's be hounest, people are walking in verry tight clothes [ guess you know what I mean ], showing off the part you all would like to see.

Comercials are usig it all over the world, what's there slogan again . . ."sex sells" ?

I can't go to a motorshow or there's that babe in ....

Can't look at a comercial or the woman is chosen for her apeal.

The list can go on, but what it comes down to, moral code or not .. ... you can't get it out of the culture. Nor, why should you.

In a way it's a part of our culture, always has been.

It has not always been part of are culture. it started recently and moved up more and more and more.

You might not can get it out of the Culture. but you can keep away from it yourself. Things are geting worse and worse just like the bible said they would. :)

"This know also. that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves. covetous, boasters pround, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebrakers. false accusers incontitent fierce despisers of those that are good traitors, heady highminded, Lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God;"<Note this is true USA i heard spends serveral million dollurs on pleasure items per year. But that is old information. probbly is billions of dollurs now.>" Haveing a form of godillness but denying the power thereof..."

2 Tim 3 1-5 :)

And about TV. well you can't expect much more off of it ;) . Profanity Taxes Greed Graft Crime Murder Rape Robbery Strife Wars Sin Disease Deception. etc etc. All TV is mostly now days is trash. but there are some good movies. but i don't make any expations if there is anything nasty on them. Anybody remember hearing the story about the kid and his dad who that made the brownes? ;D

And yes. there is stuff on TV that you can order. and ebay that uses girly name photos on it etc etc Just has a sells tatic. Example

Lets try on the wonderful Jeans! Wow look at how those people there look in them!<Shows girls whereing them>

I also seen some crazy comercial advertiseing Underwere

:P

I just change the channle whenever a movie goes off for a minute. Then change it back ever now and then to see if its back on. if its nasty. well its nasty. you are not forced to watch any such thing. thats exactly why i stay away from it.

I wasn't condemning indecency for being part of our society, I was merely saying that being part of a culture is no defence for evil.

I tottly agree with you then. But evil all around you makes it highly likelyer that you will fall into it yourself.

[Acriku]

Sneezer, for the last time, just because I don't believe in "your" god, doesn't mean I am conscience-free to do whatever the hell I want. I have laws in my country, I have morals in my country, I have dignity! So take your bible-thumpin' attitude towards me and stuff it up the altar!

Back to the topic, nude beaches are public for people who are nude! They are select areas of the beaches, and there are miles and miles of beaches around them, so go to those and enjoy yourselves!

[emprworm]

<|Either reduce the graphic content or stay off posting in public forums.|>

[Acriku]

All you had to say was expose their private parts, but no you had to go further and actually say the parts, which some of us do not want to hear. Besides, this isn't a strictly adult forum, so some people here have parents that want their children to not read such filth. If I want to hear about specific private parts, I'll go back to sex ed.

[sneezer3]

Sneezer, for the last time, just because I don't believe in "your" god, doesn't mean I am conscience-free to do whatever the hell I want. I have laws in my country, I have morals in my country, I have dignity! So take your bible-thumpin' attitude towards me and stuff it up the altar!

Back to the topic, nude beaches are public for people who are nude! They are select areas of the beaches, and there are miles and miles of beaches around them, so go to those and enjoy yourselves!

Good point about the beaches 8) But i still wish people would ware a little more clothes or something.

You misunderstood what i was saying again,

I never said you din't have laws in your country. all i'm saying is if God isn't real then why not cheat on that test in the third grade when your teacher isn't looking? Baseicly to put it simpler why not get away with what you can? and i have no bible thumpin biblcol shotgun attuide here towards you or anybody else here. so no arguement. don't lose your cool over one little post one dune2k ;)

[emprworm]

the choice of words that one uses to make a post should not be predetermined by someone else. Cut your censorship bigotry, Acriku.

"Besides, this isn't a strictly adult forum, so some people here have parents that want their children to not read such filth. If I want to hear about specific private parts, I'll go back to sex ed."

It took you 37 words to say all that. You could have said it in just 15. Heck, I could have said it all in less than 10. Looks like you are guilty of your own accusation. Last I checked, it was not a crime on this forum just because I use 25 words to say something that Acriku can say in 15.

You ganging up on me Acriku? If you guys want me to leave these forums, freaking just tell me straight up ok? Dont play this stupid little game about how "offended" you are over the word

GENETALIA because you wont fool anyone. OOOH I SAID GENETALIA! OOOOOHHHHHH

ANd I dont WANT to say private parts. That is your choice of words...NOT MINE

Just tell me you want me gone.

In a thread about sex, I'm going to use anatomical terms like "genetalia, anus, penis, vagina, rectum" these are all relevant. I will not be saying "private parts" because I do not want to use such a stupid term. Obviously if we are arguing that people can walk naked around in public, ITS NO LONGER A "PRIVATE" PART NOW IS IT? ::) Doh! :O

(and don't think for a second, I'll start calling them "public parts." ROFL :D )

If you cannot handle the word "genetalia" and are too sensitive to be able to cope with it, then maybe you should stop your defense of nude beaches else not allow a thread that is specifically about the act of S-E-X

Like, DUH

"

[DukeLeto]

Removing a moderator's edits, I believe, is a bannable offense. ::)

Anyways, I don't believe you can (or should) attempt to regulate morality. Laws and morals are seperate things. To keep someone from being indecent in public is fine. But what you do at home, well, that's something different. The government doesn't belong there. That's why I get so upset when peopl babble on about how Clinton was such a bad guy. What he did was morally wrong, but impeaching him for it? You're trying to regulate morality through the law, and that's dangerous ground.

[Acriku]

Sneezer it is because I have my own morals and dignity that I do not 'get away with what I can'. Yes I cheated before, and that was in middleschool when my morality wasn't fully furnished. Hope that *finally* answers your question?

Empr, I'm fine with genetalia, but it's when you type in specific genetalia that grosses some out, heck even me because I just ate some good eggo's. The choice of words should be predetermined, and is, check out the rules sometime when you get a chance.

So because I explain myself with more words, that I'm guilty of my own accusation? My accusation was you could have said less-descriptive words, not less words. It's the quality, and content, not the quantity.

I'm not ganging up, I have a responsibility here on these forums as does everybody else to keep it within the guidelines so explicitly states in the rules section. You can stay all you want, I can't stop you or make you, but all I am asking is that you have the courtesy for others to not post such descriptive words. Ok?

[gryphon]

@ Sneezer3

Sexcualisme is not something that is in "our" culture sinds the last decenia.

It always played a part, but mostly has been under a sort of taboo. Now if you mean that this subject is getting out of a taboo sfeer and into "normal everyday" conversations I know what you mean.

But then Nema's words are playing in my head. Mayby this subject shouldn't have been in a place of taboo in our culture, but has been for a long time [ like slavery in Nema's comparrision ]. It's just that now it's getting out.

So in that way, as much as you say it should be, I can agrue it shouldn't be a taboo.

Unless some one can give specific arguments on why, and not just personal opinions. We'll have a tie.

[emprworm]

Empr, I'm fine with genetalia, but it's when you type in specific genetalia that grosses some out, heck even me because I just ate some good eggo's.

fair statement. perhaps then, Acriku, you will understand from my point of view, then. I used very very light words. I merely used the biological term for human sexual organs. And you were eating eggos and got grossed out because of it. Yes, I understand that completely. I believe your reaction is probably quite typical. I would have had the same reaction as you, in fact.

Now, imagine with me for a moment that I am walking with my son (if I had a son) and we are eating an ice cream cone going to the beach to play frisbee, and some 74 year old pot-bellied wrinkled world war II vet with elephant skin swinging his "FRONT SIDE PUBLIC PART" walks in front of our view and then turns around and before we can turn away, we catch a 1/100th of a second view of his peach-fuzzed pus-infected lint-dangling "REAR SIDE PUBLIC PART". DOn't you think we too would be grossed out to a degree 50 times worse than you?

If the mere scientific words are enough to violate the decency of this forum, then by ALL MEANS, the actual events themselves are far and away more than enough to voilate civil decency as well.

You guys actually proved my point far better than I could.

Public nudity should be banned completely in any civilized society.

[Acriku]

If it's a public beach, with no permit for a nude beach, then no one is legally allowed to be naked in any aspect. Report that person to the local authorities or the nearby life guard and that's that. I haven't seen one naked person at all at the Cocoa Beach or the ClearWaters Beach in Florida.

[emprworm]

Acriku, my good friend, you have not yet been to Europe, no?

I once took the ferry from Spain to Ibiza, a small island in the Mediterranean. The moment I got off the ferry, there they were- nudies everywhre. NOw the problem is that I had no choice but to use the ferry, thus really no way to avoid looking at all the extra human orifices that I normally would be protected from looking at. Europe has sunk into a moral quagmire

[Acriku]

Ewwwwww. I'll keep that in mind when I go to Scotland (my dream vacation).

[Anathema]

Yes, and Ibiza represents all of Europe ::)

Plus, did it ever occur to you that some of those nude tourists might not be from Europe? ::)

With such popular resorts you can't enforce every tiny law there is. If 10,000 people on a beach appear naked, do you expect the police to arrest every single one of them? Now if everybody of those people started raping eachother you'd have a problem.

And I'm not aware of legislation on Ibiza. Is nudity on beaches even illegal there?

[emprworm]

And I'm not aware of legislation on Ibiza. Is nudity on beaches even illegal there?

how would I know? I used it only as an example. There are many others. Case in point Amsterdam. Never in my life have I ever visted a more filthy disgusting city. Just walking down the street, i saw scores of magazines with pornography right on the cover of the magazine. Not inside the store, but outside the store! YOu cant even walk down the street without looking at it.

And oh man do I ever have an example in Germany- can you say "naked stalker?" but I wont go there unless someone really wants me to.

[Anathema]

And I'm not aware of legislation on Ibiza. Is nudity on beaches even illegal there?

how would I know? I used it only as an example. There are many others. Case in point Amsterdam. Never in my life have I ever visted a more filthy disgusting city. Just walking down the street, i saw scores of magazines with pornography right on the cover of the magazine. Not inside the store, but outside the store! YOu cant even walk down the street without looking at it.

And oh man do I ever have an example in Germany- can you say "naked stalker?" but I wont go there unless someone really wants me to.

Well, that may be true. How many American cities have you visited (and I don't mean just the rich blocks, but also the slums). Amsterdam isn't as crime infested as some American cities, wich is IMO a lot worse then having to look at "public parts" on a magazine store ::)

[sneezer3]

@ Sneezer3

Sexcualisme is not something that is in "our" culture sinds the last decenia.

It always played a part, but mostly has been under a sort of taboo. Now if you mean that this subject is getting out of a taboo sfeer and into "normal everyday" conversations I know what you mean.

But then Nema's words are playing in my head. Mayby this subject shouldn't have been in a place of taboo in our culture, but has been for a long time [ like slavery in Nema's comparrision ]. It's just that now it's getting out.

So in that way, as much as you say it should be, I can agrue it shouldn't be a taboo.

Unless some one can give specific arguments on why, and not just personal opinions. We'll have a tie.

Yeah. but what i mean is evil in general with sexism included. and yes thats also what i mean. conversations are comeing about it more and more like you said.

Sneezer it is because I have my own morals and dignity that I do not 'get away with what I can'. Yes I cheated before, and that was in middleschool when my morality wasn't fully furnished. Hope that *finally* answers your question?

I never had any question. Please re-Read my posts. There is no arguement here but you are simply not understanding or takeing out of context or misquoteing what that i am saying.

All i am saying is why not get away with what you can while you can. even if its imorrl if the world wasn't made by God and came into existance on its own. Then why not get away with stealing that money while he wasn't looking. But by no means do i think you should do wrong.

Anyway. to solve this simply make them wear more clothes. Something could easyly be made. If not use whatever the old bathing suit was that i hear had you ware more clothes then any other. They could simply put some something that covers you more and will still allow you to swim without wearing a suit and isn't easy to ruin problem solved.

and TV should have way less on it.

[Acriku]

Sneezer I am reading your question in the form of a statement, and I am still getting the impression you are talking about what is stopping me from doing all that. And I just said what stops me. I have no idea what else you want. Perhaps you need to clarify?

[gryphon]

@ emprworm

First of al, you have been to Europe. . jet you state that public nudity has te be banned.

It might have slipped past you, but it is banned in Europe.

In some places in France and spain you arn't even allowed on or near te beach at all when you're over 50 or just vat. And there are people who have been fined for about 50 Euro's if they did.

Besides that .. if you're going on holliday to certain places like Ibiza, Salou or The Red light District you're just asking for it and should complain about a little bit nudity.

The last thing is a bit personal, plesae don't take it to litterally.

But we as Europeans ar econstantly saying that Americans are "just to much".

And the US in always rubbing us in that we are to free and whatever. Can't we just get over that. Ok, our cultures are different, but shurely we should be able to set that asside ? ::)

[IxianMace]

You are missing what I am saying. Sex whether emotionally or just for physical pleasure is still physical to some degree. I do not consider it primative because I have a desire for sexual intercourse and not realize that it is still a relieving taking place emotional or physical. My views about sex are not childish if you are as mature you will understand better if you read my post again.

The physical release or 'relieve' that comes from sexual intercourse is simply a result of stimulation that comes from sex. People can't help it if they get pleasurable sensations out of it can they? I mean, of course, why would people have sex if it wasn't something they enjoyed? This is understandable, and unavoidable (the physical stimulus.) However all I really wanted to point out is that people do not always have to focus on the physical pleasure that they derive from sexual intercourse, and more on what it means for them in terms of the relationship between themselves and their partner. But yes, no matter how much and what people have sex for, there will always be a physical 'relieve' I guess, that comes from it. Not that I'm against this, it's just what I was not focusing upon.

[emprworm]

jet you state that public nudity has te be banned.

It might have slipped past you, but it is banned in Europe.

uhhhh, would this explain why the entire country of Germany it is fully legal for everyone to be totally nude in any waterpark, swimming pool, etc, after 6:00 pm?