Acriku Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 Yes, it would require a complete and identical copy of the environment the person has lived in to the point of the cloning. I heard this talk on MSNBC, do you watch that vigil? Good points talked about in that channel.
VigilVirus Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 Nope, don't have that channel. But IMO, identical recreation of the environment is impossible.
DjCiD Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 [offtopic] After Mankind had succeed in cloning they decided they could do without God.... hear are some of the minuets from the Press conferance."Well God as you can see we are well along our way on the cloning thing so we feel we can do without you." "Oh you do, do you...""Yes we can make a human just as well as you." "Ok then why not have a try at it and we'll see who's is best."'God then scooped up some dirt and made a man.' "Ok now your go.""All right just let me get a scoop of this...." "Wait... use your own dirt." [offtopic]
Acriku Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 Yeah I've heard of that, pretty good, but serves no point except placing humanity right back to the dirty servant that he is! Mwahaha...Yeah *ahem*
TMA_1 Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 I read through the basics of their entire philosophy on their website "raelian revolution".Its a typical garden variaty extra terrestrial, quazi religious cult like the rest of them. Making a base on earth for aliens to come, religions being their stepping stone for mankind blah blah. It is pretty basic. If they did pay clonaid to make a clone (which there are doubts) than its to be expected. Humans are curious creatures. God will have an accounting.
nemafakei Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 The ones I pity are the children. Ther lives will be subject to tests, and will have problems relating to their parents knowing that they're genetically identical, but 30 or so years behind.
DjCiD Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 The ones I pity are the children. Ther lives will be subject to tests, and will have problems relating to their parents knowing that they're genetically identical, but 30 or so years behind.Kinda like Jango and Boba Fett... :- ok bad repesentation... think Boba would die of a splitting headache too?
Acriku Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 Well Han did get him in the head right? I think...Yes, the experiment would probably have a destined life to tests, more experiments, and then come the cloned rights activists causing all sorts of hell.
DjCiD Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 Now is that the Clone activist that think clones should have more rights or the Clone activist that thinks cloning is bad (mmkay) or is a clone of a clone activest that thought it was bad but since itself is now a clone says its ok... so would it be alright to call a clone an it?
Anathema Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 Now is that the Clone activist that think clones should have more rights or the Clone activist that thinks cloning is bad (mmkay) or is a clone of a clone activest that thought it was bad but since itself is now a clone says its ok... so would it be alright to call a clone an it?No, they're human beings.
DjCiD Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 How could you call a clone a human being? It is a clone of a human being. A carbon copy, not the real thing. So I wouldn't call it a Human by no means.... so calling it, it should suffice.
Anathema Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 Technicly, all the scientists did was take the DNA of a being and inject it into a ovum cell. Then it grew just like any normal being. If a clone is a thing, then twins are also things.
DjCiD Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 But twins occur naturally. Not unless the scientist naturally took the DNA and... I'm not even going that route... What the scientist did resulted in a clone ... it wasn't by any means natural. I dread the day that going to the baby farm (cloning plant) is a natural occurrence.
Anathema Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 I hope that never happens (then again, it may be unstoppable). But woman who need medical intervention to become pregnant don't get pregnant by natural means either.Besides, the cloned being will be no different from a "real" human. He/she thinks, feels and talks like other people.
The_Sadukar Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 ). But woman who need medical intervention to become pregnant don't get pregnant by natural means either.And do you consider tit a good thing, I don't because there may just be a reason why she can't become pregnant by natrual means.
TMA_1 Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 It is a human, but it isnt of natural causes. Some plantlife and lower animal life use replication as a form of reproduction, but we dont. So obviously that brings up some topics.lol Frank Herbert put it good. People would be treated as dopplegangers, duplicates, not the same as humans. I think its very evil.
Anathema Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 So when a person leads a perfectly normal life and doesn't harm a fly, and it turns out he's a clone, he should be shunned from society?
TMA_1 Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 I didnt say he or she should be shunned but that he or she would be shunned. people do things that are wrong. duh? hehe People have natures that cast out differences. I am saying that cloning in the first place is evil.
DjCiD Posted December 29, 2002 Posted December 29, 2002 Besides, the cloned being will be no different from a "real" human. He/she thinks, feels and talks like other people.Except for the fact that it is a clone of a human and not a natural one. And unless there have been clones in the past that have proven that it thinks, feels and talks like real people, then I don't think we can say that yet. This cloned baby may only survive a short time. Follow me if you will. If the Soul does exist and cannot be replicated by man then these clones are not fully human are they? What if without a soul they cannot sustain life very long? I think there are gonna be a lot more test, and inevitably it will become a common thing to make a trip to the baby farm. :-
john66doe Posted December 30, 2002 Posted December 30, 2002 Yes, from the start of human civilisation we have tried to outdo each other by being the stronger and the smarter than the next person. If we can not do it ourselves, we will make it... from machines to computers and the decoding of info in world war 2 to what we are today, and now we have machines building machines and humans and computers decoding the D.N.A of people and swaping and mixing genes to work out what is the best to keep and to make us more obedient and not have our own thoughts plus stop us from getting sick from all the junk floating around in the air and waterways, then when they have what they want, there will be computers teaching humans from day one, with tracking devices to the point were they might be able to tap or tune into your thoughts. From birth you will be brain washed to when certain kind of thoughts go through your mind it will trigger you to stop thinking about that certain thing, to help you keep going and not give up on things. In the end you become a program yourself but you would not know any diffent because it will be all you would know, and it would just be called human evolution in the long run and we all have to turn a blide eye to it in the end, because what can we do about it really??? People say they want it stopped but the laws are laws within laws and there are ways around just about anything so your thoughts are not safe. If your D.N.A is not safe nothing is safe, unless you have the means to keep it that way, like brainwashing your own gene improved humans, to do it just like ants live, for e.g. you might have been cloned just to be a worker and some were cloned just to be in the army and I bet you get the gist of what I am saying. If you look at most of the movies out there they have been building us up for this for a long time, from cyborg implants like Jonny Mnemonic and Matrix and even the latest Star Wars (Attack of the Clones) the book was written long before the movie. So in the end SCI FI equals a fantasy that we try to make real because we make our own fate in the end.
Dude_Doc Posted December 30, 2002 Posted December 30, 2002 Interesting topic. Okay, some of my own points:1. How do you know the Raelians are telling the truth? They seem to be some crazy sect, and I don't think crazy sects can get their hands on medical equipment. No, I don't hack them for believing in something else, only that it is strange that no "real" scientist came first with cloning...2. Is it right to clone? Well, some hard things here. God created us. But then He also knew that sooner or later, we would invent sciense, discover the stars, discover biology, chemistry math and etc. He also knew that we would continue... and now we can clone. But God created us, He did not copy us from another human and placed us on Earth. We only recreate ourselves. The same will be said of AI, when they come to existanse. AIs rights will also be questioned. Anyways, back to clones: when (if) cloning becomes "official", and I decide to clone myself for some reason, I only recreate myself. I do not create myself with powers God created us. Then I also should have the rights of myself, or would I? Read on...3. Clone Rights. First question will be: is it morally right to clone? Honestly I don't know. A clone is just a sample of my body, so logically I should have total control of my own clone. It's me! It's my body! All my cells inside me are my own! I decide what I do with my body, right? If I commit suicide, I kill my cells, which I own. And the same would be for the clone. Then comes the other questions: does the clone have the exact thoughts as I have and etc? Does it have a soul? Or is it just a lifeless body? Will AIs have souls? They're just some (okay many) pieces of metal and other materials combined into small chips placed in ceratin order that creates the artificial mind of an AI, right? But clones are some organs placed into a certain order that creates my body. What will a clone be? 4. Will cloning be for humanitys own good? Well, consider all those children and homeless families starving somewhere in the middle of nowhere, with no one to help them. Think of all the food we could clone for them! Sure, it will be a meal from the clone wat, but they will live! The country that is starving could consentrate their money on building homes for the people. There may be some debt for the country cloning the food, but still, if we think morally and logic, we could help those people without taxing the cloning. Of course this is the far away future I'm talking about, but if we do research in cloning, that day when everybody can survive with the help of cloning comes a step closer. Sci-fi? Today maybe. But maybe not in 100 years.
DjCiD Posted December 30, 2002 Posted December 30, 2002 There may be some debt for the country cloning the food, but still, if we think morally and logic, we could help those people without taxing the cloning.Hey no problem I'm sure we can clone money too ;) j/k
ken124578 Posted December 30, 2002 Posted December 30, 2002 "just the first" step to human immortality through cloning.Unfortenetly this is not possible since the clone doesn't experience an life like that of his... uhh... wel, the other him.For example: you've married and are experiencing happy times, food for you and your children, now look at your clone, he could have an miserable life with no marrriage, he'll look different, have an different character and wil NOT be like you.You wil have died anyway, you wont "miraculeusly" be revived and brought back in an new body, its actually an new woman/man in a old body.
SurlyPIG Posted December 30, 2002 Posted December 30, 2002 A clone would be no more similar to it's parent organism than a set of identical twins.
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