Wicca and Neo-peganism

[sneezer3]

I think God wanted humanity to fall. Adam and Eve did not know what was right or wrong, good or evil (since they had not eaten from the tree of knowledge), so nothing stopped them except an old man in the sky yelling at them. And he allowed a snake to get into the garden...

I suppose we will never know... But it would have happened a lot later, if ever.

No. he knew we would fail. but wanted to give mankind a choice. and we blew it. and your probbly right about it happening latter if ever. But think what all adem & eve caused by sining that one time in the garden. :)

[Acriku]

How did we blow it if Adam and Eve didn't know between good or evil? They were totally innocent to God's wrath.

[VigilVirus]

They did something against God's will and they knew that they weren't supposed to.

[Acriku]

There's no way to know they shouldn't do it becuase that would require a knowledge of good and bad and that was not accessible to them without the Tree.

[Edric O]

That's right, Acriku. They were incapable of forming their own moral system, separate from God's. That's what "knowledge of good and evil" means. They couldn't judge for themselves what was good and what was evil; they were totally dependent on God to tell them. And He told them that eating the fruit of knowledge was evil, and that it was forbidden.

They knew that what they were doing was wrong, but did it anyway. And notice that I don't take this story literraly. Adam and Eve are a metaphor for the early humans.

[TMA_1]

"I think of demons like flys. The must have been about that size to be able to infect about 3 per pig in the bible in mark."

Edric is right, they are not "little creatures". They are transendent beings.

Also it isnt an issue of who's religion is better acriku. I just dont respect the Wiccan beliefs. They are so made up and half baked. It is a very new religion and people often think it is ancient. It CANT be confused with real witchcraft that is age old. Wicca is very new. It is like shallow attempt at "making" a religion based on old mythology. Its just really silly.

[Acriku]

Wicca dates back to the druid times which were even before Christian times.

[sneezer3]

"I think of demons like flys. The must have been about that size to be able to infect about 3 per pig in the bible in mark."

Edric is right, they are not "little creatures". They are transendent beings.

Since they are non-corporeal beings, demons can be any size they want.

I don't mean to go hard on your guys. but i don't think thats proven<What i mean by proven is its not said anywhere in the bible.> or even assumeing it is just plan assumeing it. And if your right there could be to types of them. like one thing of flys like and others able to take diffrant shapes. and if there able to infect about 3 per pig. well. they most at lest be able to get small. And Demons are fallen angles.

By the way the bible reffers to them has "Devils" it don't want any poor pagen tottly sinful mixed up not sure whats right to get it confused with a good "demon" has the word "Demon" means that they can be good or bad. and don't wanna get you confused. thats why i perffer to call them "Devils" i'm preety sure the word "Demon" don't even appaer in the bible.

If you have anything to say about this. try and provide a bible verse or chapter.

And Acriku- you cannot get before then. it goes all the way back to when he crated the earth. :)

[emprworm]

hu? wiccan new? wiccan is very very old. its not even a religion in itself per se, it is classified as animism.

[Edric O]

Yes, but that depends on what you understand by "Wicca". For the most part, modern Wicca is quite different from ancient druidism. There's also the small problem that we have very little information about what druidism was like, so a lot of stuff is just "assumed".

[Usul]

The way I see it Wicca is as believable as any other religion it just depends on how you take it. I am a Wiccan but an agnostic one following the Jungian interpretation that the God and the Goddess are archetypes. What Wiccans mean by magick are things like the spirits, telephathy, clarivouncy, telecnessis, OBE, the importance of dreams, herbalism, etc.

[Caid Ivik]

It's a new form of primitive animism. But it's a good sign. Atheistic west is returning to religiosity. Soon, they will find what is true believe, and its true values. It's like a "restart" from that chaos brought after Reformation. Many people were disgusted by chaotic Church, much of them became nihilists and lost their sense of life. I can say, they returned to animal, pre-cultural, state. That brought the world wars. Now, they are trying to find the sense of life again. Some seek in animism, some in eastern ways, some are lured by occultists, some start hearing the God.

[The_Sadukar]

So basicly you are saying that, Caid, that atheists are no better the animals? In that case I would call you a danger to mankind.

[Edric O]

That's not what he said.

[Dante]

I see Wicca as a new 'belief' not yet worthy of being called a religion, although it may earn the title in time. I believe that all the ancient beliefs from long before Christianity have been taken out of history and refitted by people who rather fancied a change. They see themselves as creating something new or preserving something old. Actually their modifying something old into a jumbled mess.

Some Wiccans, I am sure, have their own god/s and truly have made it a religion. But without the entire believing population believing the same things (which they don't) it is nothing more than a jaded cult.

It is impossible for Wicca as it is to ever become a religion, it's too fuzzy and weak. Also the ancient beliefs, they could never be re-accepted entirely. As for something new... who knows?

[The_Sadukar]

That's not what he said.

Then He is no danger.

[emprworm]

Yes, but that depends on what you understand by "Wicca". For the most part, modern Wicca is quite different from ancient druidism.

its all animism just the same. regardless of whether "old" nor "new", its the same category of religion that has been around for thousands of years.

[TMA_1]

"Yes, but that depends on what you understand by "Wicca". For the most part, modern Wicca is quite different from ancient druidism. There's also the small problem that we have very little information about what druidism was like, so a lot of stuff is just "assumed"."

Errr... We agree edric... lol the world is coming to an end!! lol glad to see we come together on this. truce?

[Edric O]

What truce? We were never at war. :)

[Acriku]

Edric, that is exactly what Caid said. When people broke from the church, they became athiests and Caid described them to turning into animal state. They became primitive. Well Caid is wrong, and that is sad.

[Caid Ivik]

My fault, animal state was too hard word for you. Nihilism destroys many moral values in life. But I didn't ment they lost ALL values. That's why they aren't animals. Animism has nothing with it, call it "shamanism" or "druidism" if you want. Every religion brings values. Without them, we are animals. You cannot have a sense of life without a values in it.

Just you all feel I was trying to make you "under me". I'm like you, I just want to tell you what I think about nowadays situation.

[Acriku]

So should I go out and murder a couple hundred people because I am lacking those values given by the precious religions?

[Dante]

And animals do have values. What do you think causes pythons to look after their young? Religion? Some special snakey clan? Do they bow their heads in prayer and wish they hand hands? Maybe they put the two ends of their tongues together... ::)

[Edric O]

There's a big difference between instinct and values, Dust Scout.

Acriku, what can I say, you're right. Of course atheists have values too. The only problem is that your values aren't based on anything other than what you've been taught by society and your parents during your childhood. They are a product of our times and are subject to change. One day, killing may become "moral" to atheists.

[Dante]

There's a big difference between instinct and values, Dust Scout.

Acriku, what can I say, you're right. Of course atheists have values too. The only problem is that your values aren't based on anything other than what you've been taught by society and your parents during your childhood. They are a product of our times and are subject to change. One day, killing may become "moral" to atheists.

Ahh, wonderful. I was wondering if anyone would menetion instinct, congrats Edric. Nonetheless, instict is to cause the species to become successful. That this is done through care and not burying the eggs to protect them shows that some kind of values, even if they are animal and subconcious, do exist. Otherwise the pythons could use any number of tactics that other snakes employ to ensure that their eggs survive.

And I'm pretty sure atheists can make up their own morals... Otherwise there'd be far more killings than there already are. Of course these morals do depend on your upbringing, but so do religious ones. For example; how can people who are members of the same religion, Christianity, be either Catholic or Protestant? They have been brought up to interpret the teachings of the religion in different ways. So religious beliefs too are changable. That's how Spanish Inquisitions and Salem witch trials happen. And don't say that only one interpretation of these is true, because that's what all the other people would say.