OK, so who of you are there?

[Edric O]

I read them, TMA, and I don't see their relevance to the topic. Especially considering that the parable about the seeds is, of course, a parable. And it's open to interpretation.

Sneezer, I strongly recommend that you read this site:

A Catholic apologetic's response to Jack Chick's tracts

It discusses Chick tracts in great detail and provides solid arguments on why they are wrong about the Catholic Church.

[Edric O]

I'll let that site do the talking for me, because they say it much better than I could.

Btw, do you have to use the KJV? It's written in old English and hard to understand for modern-day speakers.

Edit:

Click here to go directly to their rebuttal of the tract we were discussing.

[sneezer3]

I read them, TMA, and I don't see their relevance to the topic. Especially considering that the parable about the seeds is, of course, a parable. And it's open to interpretation.

Sneezer, I strongly recommend that you read this site:

A Catholic apologetic's response to Jack Chick's tracts

It discusses Chick tracts in great detail and provides solid arguments on why they are wrong about the Catholic Church.

I have been to that site before. i even emailed chick.com about it before.

I guess i'l have to answer to what they say on there to. :P

But i can do it to overtime ;D

I knew you'd find that site if you used a search engine. its one of the first Results on google.

But Cathlicisem is still wrong. and what you say "They wanted to divide us" you act like the Christans and Cathlics belive the same and are togather or something. lol.

And even if Jack Chick is wrong on some things. Cathlicism is still wrong.<Read above post about why>

I'l go there. this is gonna be a long night. :P

[Edric O]

Listen, I don't completely agree with Catholics. But I agree with them more than I do with Jack Chick.

The only point I'm trying to make is this: We are all Christians. Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox... ALL of us! We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and we should start acting like it! Yes, our beliefs are somewhat different, but we all agree on the essence.

Therefore, we must stop fighting each other like fools. A house divided on itself will fall. WE MUST STAND UNITED! And together we must fight the invasion of atheism and secularism that is sweeping across the world! Open your eyes and see who our TRUE enemy is. Fight atheism, not Catholicism!

You don't have to argue against everything on that site. Just accept this simple truth:

Together we will stand, or one by one we will fall.

[VigilVirus]

You seem to be delusional that we are at war. We are not, because there is no point to fight a war over religion. We must accept atheism, because it is as justified a religion as the others.

PS - atheism is not sweeping through the lands actually - Islam is the fastest growing religion

[Acriku]

Atheism is not a religion ;) Kind of hard to have a system of beliefs when all it is is the lack of belief of a certain something. a god.

[VigilVirus]

Athiesm is basically the absense of religion, but still my point is that ALL BELIEF SYSTEMS ARE EQUAL AND TRUE.

[Acriku]

Atheism is not tecnically the absence of religion, as you can believe in Wicca and be an atheist to every god.

[TMA_1]

I think it is because me and you edric are in different demonimations, hmmm ah? hehe fenring. Yeah we just d isagree because I believe in simple faith in what christ did as the way to be saved.

It also says that our mind is the battle field. The war is in the mind and spirit. It isnt dilusional.

[VigilVirus]

It doesn't matter. Don't tell me that atheism is the enemy - that's such bs. Some of my friends are atheists and are really great people and I look down upon all those who disrespect any belief.

[TMA_1]

err? lol

[VigilVirus]

err? lol

I find nothing funny about what I said. Criticizing the religion of others is the cause of much evil in this world.

[emprworm]

the cause for evil is not criticizing a religion, there is surely nothing wrong with that. the cause for evil is simply human greed, lust for power, and selfish desire.

[VigilVirus]

Criticizing religion creates conflict, because each group holds their beliefs true and sacred. And I'm not talking about the cuse of all evil - just a contributing factor.

[sneezer3]

I'll let that site do the talking for me, because they say it much better than I could.

Btw, do you have to use the KJV? It's written in old English and hard to understand for modern-day speakers.

No i don't. heres why

Psalms 12:6"The words of the Lord are pure words: as sliver tried in a furnace of earth purified seven times."

Now sliver after the 5 time is probbly almost pure. but if something is pureified 7 times it is tottly pure.

the NIV ASV and all that other is junk. Thats the devils work on stuff.

Jack Chick wrote a tract on this to! ;D

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp

I'm going to give you a few links on something called the bible codes.

http://www.theomatics.com/theomatics/home.html

http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

http://www.bibledecoder.com/

http://store.yahoo.com/dokosite/

look at the bible codes. they explan a lot. However you do not find them in other versions. this is even yet more proof that that isn't of God.

And there has been errors found in them. Some of those links might say that the bible codes are in other books i din't check all of them. But just other plan books, Anything of that is just by chance however the KJV 1611 Gods Word has many of this. Right after sept 11 is when i heard about them. <I think i'm not for sure> They found stuff link "Pentagen Burn" But however other versions the bible codes don't work. that should tell you something about them.

By the way. Most of the Cathlics don't belive what you think. They belive another way to get saved. i'm not sure what it is thats what i was trying to say earlyer. Some of them do belive Grace Though faith but that number is vary small.

"Sprinkled or something"?? YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY BELIEVE! Your ignorance is blinding you. I suggest informing yourself on Catholic beliefs before slandering them."

Now if they don't even belive that your saved by grace thought faith then you and me both know there going stright to hell when they die.

"And that just goes to prove how intricate and well thought-out Satan's plan really is... Whatever you do, it's still in his benefit. **** IT!"

No.

Romens 8:28

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose"

Baseicly all things work together for good to them that love God. And satins plan will in the end fail. that is why he is the gratest fool that ever lived.

[zamboe]

And Catholics are not Christans. if you think this then you really do have problems.

Wow. I didn't read that until now.

sneezer you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about, the statment is so ridiculous that doesn't even deserve more arguments.

Catholics are Christians, also the first Christian Church that existed since Jesus and since Peter which is now represented by the pope.

[TMA_1]

"Criticizing religion creates conflict, because each group holds their beliefs true and sacred. And I'm not talking about the cuse of all evil - just a contributing factor."

Since when does conflict follow with evil? You are way over sensitive.

[sneezer3]

And Catholics are not Christans. if you think this then you really do have problems.

Wow. I didn't read that until now.

sneezer you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about, the statment is so ridiculous that doesn't even deserve more arguments.

Catholics are Christians, also the first Christian Church that existed since Jesus and since Peter which is now represented by the pope.

To put it simply

Cathlics belive you are saved diffrantly. Some<Vary Few> Belive otherwise. That you are save by Grace Though faith.

At lest some of them are right on one thing.

[emprworm]

sneezer, who is this Jack Chick guy? An Apostle? Cmon. He's just another fallen, mortal human being with opinions like anyone else. Look to the Bible, not a Jack Chick tract for your source of truth. The idea that the NIV or other translations are of the devil is rediculous. I am going to surprise you now. You ready? The bible was NOT written in King James! Rofl. If you want the pure 100% unaltered text of the Bible, you will need to learn GREEK AND HEBREW. The king james is just another translation of those same manuscripts. And did you know that the King James has DELIBERATE ERRORS? Yes. The king james says Moses parted the red sea. NO! This is false. It is actually the Reed Sea. This is an example of an error in the King James that survives even to this day many Christians think the Hebrew text says "red sea". Because of the King James, this error is still believed even today. Am I knocking the king james? No. Its a great piece of work, but it is NOT perfect. It is a human translation of the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts just like any other translation. There is nothing "demonic" about the NIV or the NAS or others. If Jack Chick actually believes that other translations are demonic, this guy has some serious issues to deal with. I am hoping...I mean I am truly hoping that Jack Chick does not actually believe the NIV is demonic. That would be beyond silly.

[sneezer3]

I went to that site. it despretly trys to explan away truth. and wrote some stuff in notepad i'm going to copy and past what I put. I don't feel like doing anything for any other tracts.

"The author begins to establish the basis for which he is going to exclude Catholicism from the broader category of Christians. The only way to check it out, he says, is to use the Holy Inspired Word of God!"

Go ahead start out phyco anlizeing. this was also sorta of made for christans that wanna know if Romen Cathlices are Christans.

"Well it's a good thing that Jack Chick wasn't around for the first 300-400 years of the Church because there was no Bible for those Christians to follow. In fact, the various writings of each Apostle were only known to the specific part of the Church that they were written to. So that means in addition to not having a Bible, the various parts of the Church each had different writings from the Apostles depending on where the Apostles went and who they wrote to."

Aww shut up. some of pauls writeings IS PART of some of the bible.

"So if we use the basis that Jack Chick suggests, I guess that the first Christians couldn't truly come into existence until the books of the Bible were finally resolved. But when exactly was that? Was that in the late 300's when the Catholic Church resolved the issue or was that in the 1500's when Luther came up with "his version" of the Bible by discarding books that were a part of the Bible for the previous1200 years?"

The KJV bible was published in 1611 be more spsific on the dates. and yes we had the old testment for a LONG time. i think the Romen Cathlics took it away from us and maneged to kill everone with it but somebody actully re wrote it With God inspireing them again. Read the tract "The attack"

No sir. We had the old testment for a LONG time. In the new testment we read about stuff of when the only had the old testment. you need to know your bible better before you go to assumeing things. opps i forgot you use a diffrant perverted bible.

"First of all, the Catholic Church does not limit God's grace to seven channels as the author states here. Rather the Church teaches that these seven sacraments (channels), which were established by Christ, are a special form of God's grace for man."

"First of all, the Catholic Church does not limit God's grace to seven channels as the author states here. Rather the Church teaches that these seven sacraments (channels), which were established by Christ, are a special form of God's grace for man."

<No coment due to not knowing Cathlic history otherwise i'd probbly make you eat your hat by now.>

In John 3:5, we see Jesus saying "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit." This rebirth in water and Spirit is where Jesus refers to Baptism as a necessary part of our salvation.

Sure. your PERVERTED bible does. but it don't in my KJV 1611 it says "Verily Verily I say unto thee execpt a man be born of the water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."Notice it says AND of the spirit.

"The author also quotes Mark 10:14 where Jesus said "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the Kingdom of God." These two verses together raise an interesting question. If we must be reborn of water and the Spirit to enter the kingdom of God, then how is it that the children are a part of the kingdom of God without Baptism?"

You are puting words in his mouth he does not quote Mark 10:14 anywhere on that page. And when it says water I think it means earthly by a women since we are made 80% Out of water. But i could be wrong. And that area in the KJV not your perverted bible says "But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for such is the kingdom of God." You see in that area in my bible they thought Jesus had more importent things to do to talk to kids. But Jesus wanted all to be welcome. Lets read on and see how many more words you put into his mouth dispretly trying to explan away the truth.

"The analogy in Colossians 2:11-12 of circumcision and baptism shows the parallel of entering the family of God under the old law through circumcision and entering the family of God under the new law through baptism. As a general rule, circumcision was performed on babies ... so why not baptism?"

I'l tell you why. You where wrong in the first place. The bible tells us in a lot of places<Well maybe not your perverted one> About God telling us we get saved by Grace Though faith. John 3:16 Romens 10:9 Efshines 28&9I I can name a lot more if need be.

"There are other scripture passages that speak of whole households being baptized. This would seem to include parents, children and servants as well."

No

No. Even if you did have to get babtized to be saved. Kids before they where able to would still be able to go to heaven.

I don't fell like doing much more. all this crap takes a lotta time to refut. so i'l skip over to page 7

"Here again, Jack Chick uses words and associations with supposed ancient pagan rituals to put doubt into the minds of his readers.

What happened or didn't happen in ancient Babylon and Egypt has no bearing on what the Catholic Church is doing at this time."

Yes it does. if the word "Pope" "Nun" "Monk" DOn't even apper in the bible. and tells us how to Run a church with none of that included. Then that just goes more to prove Cathlices are a false Relgion. And i think jack chick is right. All of those Relgus looking custums are to impress the fallowers. You try to disract your reader from the subject by trying to point out one of the Bibles flaw. If Jack Chick was wrong about Cathlicism. then you are no better then him doing stuff like this trying to disract the reader.

Lets skip over to page 11

"Christ's command in John 6 to "eat His flesh and drink His blood in order to obtain eternal life" were indeed difficult to understand, especially since there was no way to do this other than through cannibalism.

Jesus finally gave us the means to fulfill His commands in John 6 when he instituted the Eucharist at the last supper. He said this is my body and this is my blood. He did not say this represents my body and blood or this is like my body and blood!"

That cuz your useing a perverted bible STILL. and STILL trying to despirtly explan away truth. and did you notice it said the story was COVERD UP??

So. so far you have

#1 Used a perverted bible that Christans do not use and wouldn't even say what one it was you where useing.

#2 Put Words in Jack Chickes mouth.

#3 You have lied and despirtly tryed to explan away truth.

#4 You still cannot explan why "Pope" "Monk" Or "Nun" isn't in there.

[emprworm]

the thing with the catholic church is that you do not need a Jack Chick tract to see that the concepts of praying or petitioning dead human beings (like Mary) is absurd. The idea of Mary being born without sin is also something that some pope guy made up one day. The doctrine that bread and wine actually becomes the physical body and real, actual blood of Jesus (containing His DNA, no doubt), is truly irrational, and to be honest, downright apalling. If this doctrine is true, then we would not only have enough DNA of Jesus to fully clone Him, but also enough blood to save millions of people daily. Of course, the idea that the wine literally becomes his blood is heresey as far as I'm concerned. It is a very scary doctrine indeed. Many innocent, truly Godly people were executed for refusing to believe such an obvious made-up lie that some pope guy thought it would be cool to force on a Catholic population that was forbidden to read the Bible for themselves. And that is the worst practice of them all - to discourage your people from reading the Bible for themselves!!!

But I am not going to call the catholic church demonic by any means. They have some very bizzarre doctrines but that doesn't mean that there aren't true believers in there.

Lets assume that all 1 billion catholics in this world are faithful and make 1 petition to Mary per day (conservative, most dedicated Catholics make many per day)

Now, believing that a dead, finite, limited human being (like Mary) who is not omnipresent and existing at coordinates (X,Y,Z) can actually hear you whisper a prayer in your bedroom at coordinates (R,S,T), and at the same time hear the prayers of about 1 billion other catholics who, on average, are uttering about 15,000 prayers to Mary per second 24 X 7, and to think that Mary as a finite being is not only Omnipresent to hear them all, but Omniscient to understand them seperately, and Omnipotent to 'relay them' to God is making Mary into something that the BIble expressly forbids- there is only One God. And Mary isn't Him.

[sneezer3]

sneezer, who is this Jack Chick guy? An Apostle? Cmon. He's just another fallen, mortal human being with opinions like anyone else. Look to the Bible, not a Jack Chick tract for your source of truth. The idea that the NIV or other translations are of the devil is rediculous. I am going to surprise you now. You ready? The bible was NOT written in King James! Rofl. If you want the pure 100% unaltered text of the Bible, you will need to learn GREEK AND HEBREW. The king james is just another translation of those same manuscripts. And did you know that the King James has DELIBERATE ERRORS? Yes. The king james says Moses parted the red sea. NO! This is false. It is actually the Reed Sea. This is an example of an error in the King James that survives even to this day many Christians think the Hebrew text says "red sea". Because of the King James, this error is still believed even today. Am I knocking the king james? No. Its a great piece of work, but it is NOT perfect. It is a human translation of the Greek and Hebrew manuscripts just like any other translation. There is nothing "demonic" about the NIV or the NAS or others. If Jack Chick actually believes that other translations are demonic, this guy has some serious issues to deal with. I am hoping...I mean I am truly hoping that Jack Chick does not actually believe the NIV is demonic. That would be beyond silly.

Just when i thought i'd have some back up. :(

If you wanna know what he belives go to http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0031/0031_01.asp

He belives its sorta a plot that the devil is really behind.

And yes he is a mortal human being with opinions like anyone else. He does not think they are demonic. but thinks that they shouldn't be out

And that is probbly just an archaic word. like "Shew" actully means "Show"

And errors have been shown in other bibles.

And about the Greek and Hebrew. Well God knew it would be Translated.

And NIV ASV etc. isn't translated from greek to hebrew. there changeing some of the words around to "Modern day Englesh." And most of them don't even fit and it gives a CLEAR WARNING not to mess with it or it will mess with you at the end of it.

[emprworm]

Sneezer, I would give you backup until I read you posting rediculous comments about the KJV. You of all people should know how utterly dangerous it is to make up biblical doctrines. There is NO DOCTRINE IN THE BIBLE saying that God will "only" bless 1 version. There is NO DOCTRINE that says "ONLY the KJV is God's truly inspired translation."

The doctrine of inerrancy ONLY APPLIES TO THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPTS and does not apply to translations!!

You are putting the KJV ABOVE the manuscripts. What say you about the fact that the KJV was wrong about the Red sea? Every single Bible except the KJV now translates those scriptures correctly. REED sea! Are you going to still believe in the "original" king james despite this error?

I trust the Manuscripts. When I read a verse, whether from the KJV or NIV, I always keep in mind what the manuscripts said. What is language, sneezer? It is words we use to communicate. Are you going to condemn the Chinese now because they cannot understand the KJV? All they get is a 'chinese translation'. Since when did ENGLISH become "GODS" language? People even to this day are translating the Bible into languages of cultures that have no Bible. And you can be sure that they are NOT getting the KJV. A person in Africa that speaks Swahili will not have any idea what "THOU ART" means.

Yet for some reason, guys like Jack Chick have this crazy notion that the KJV is the one true translation upon which all other translations are inferior. I'm sorry, but that is a load of crap that smells worse than a sewer. God is NOT about a bunch of English speaking white anglo-saxons. God is about THE HUMAN RACE. AND THE HUMAN RACE SPEAKS IN MORE THAN 3000 LANGUAGES!!! >:( grrrrr

It is wrong...100% WRONG to call any honest translation of the BIble "corrupted." Men spend their entire lives doing this, and guys like JCHICK are going to condemn it because they get an "and" or a "the" wrong.

Well guess what? I guess that if a bible that gets an "and" or a "the" wrong is DEMONIC, then every single chinese, indian, portugese, german, spanish, etc. Bible in the world is also demonic and the ONLY PEOPLE IN HEAVEN WILL BE KJV WHITIES??

uhh, no.

i back up you sneezer, on most of what you say. but condeming other bibles that seek to spread the good news to other cultures and other languages is going too far. support i have for you ends right there.

[sneezer3]

I g2g. i've been looking at all of that Cathlic crap for a long time. and its geting late. I'l reply tommrow and in depth.

[Anathema]

That Jack Chick is an asshole >:(

Having an opinion is one thing. If you think catholics got the wrong idea, go ahead and say that. But calling them unchristianic and accusing popes of dealings with the antichrist >:(

Edit----

In that last comic you provided link for, it says the following, when in England catholic agents try to replace "the true word of God" by their "counterfeit"

God stopped these undercover Jesuits from destroying His Word by having guards posted at their tables watching every move

I think the guards were posted by King James ::)