is space just a vacuum?

[gryphon]

And energy is nothing ?

If something exists, does it then not scientifically needs [ takes in ] space ?

[VigilVirus]

Energy is not nothing. It is weightless, but we know it exists. But it is not measured in particles.

[Anathema]

...nothing...it exists...

wooooh paradox 8)

[gryphon]

The fact that it's not messured in particles does not mean it isn't contained of particles.

[ there is an edit to my previous posts about that :) ]

But that's not the point of this discussion. I just mentioned what I thought, not to biscsuss it mearly to mention it. :)

[Acriku]

Light can come in form of particles in which the light acts as particles (photons, during photosynthesis for example), or waves (such as light going through glass, it acts as a wave).

Weight is relative and should not be a qualification of existence for energy.

[gryphon]

Light doesn't come as particles or waves sometimes. It always comes as the same thing [ presoumably that is ;) ]. It's just handeld as a particle or wave depending on what we need to calculate or understand of it.

It should be that light has mass. Not weight, you'r right about that.

[VigilVirus]

Light has no mass.

[gryphon]

Then why is it attracted by gravety for instance ?

[VigilVirus]

It's not.

[exatreide]

Then why can it be sucked into a black hole ????

[gryphon]

The theory about black holes .. . . .

But a lot of it is still guess work. It may or may not be a particle. The string theory about it is nice, but if we have a fitting theory at the moment .. I doubt it. :)

[VigilVirus]

[quote author=ExAtreides

[gryphon]

We're not reallyl shure on that I thought. Nor even the fact if black holes even do exist.

And another example, mayby not as good, but great stellar bodies [ like the Sun ] bend the light as the stars that are behind them from our point of view.

Now I know that can also be caused by "just" bending space. But it still comes down to basically the same thing. We don't know what it excually is.

[Acriku]

So what is being absorbed Vigil, if it isn't anything?

[VigilVirus]

So what is being absorbed Vigil, if it isn't anything?

Light is not nothing it just doesn't have mass.

[Acriku]

So it is absolutely nothing that somehow reacts with our retina? Here are some links explaining light:

http://www.bam.ie/bambrat/light1.htm

http://www.westga.edu/~chem/courses/xids/lectures/Light/

http://colossalstorage.net/light_dc_1.html

[Anathema]

Don't have time to read Acriku-s links, but a lot of scientists believe light is bended off by large objects. Of course Dr. Vigil disagrees ::).

Gravity deforms space time. Therefore light follows a different path in the vicinity of a black hole.

[VigilVirus]

So it is absolutely nothing that somehow reacts with our retina? Here are some links explaining light:

http://www.bam.ie/bambrat/light1.htm

http://www.westga.edu/~chem/courses/xids/lectures/Light/

http://colossalstorage.net/light_dc_1.html

Dude, can't you read? How many times have I said that light is NOT nothing? It just has no mass. Pure energy does not have mass, only matter does.

[Terror]

Dude, can't you read? How many times have I said that light is NOT nothing? It just has no mass. Pure energy does not have mass, only matter does.

Well as far as i've learned light does get attracted by the black holes cuz of gravity. A black hole is a star that has gone old and it got as small as a football or something. It's gravity is so strong nothing can escape it, not even light.

I don't think light has a mass... just energy.. and energy doesn't have a weight right?

(damn this conversation would be a lot easier in dutch, and now we're talking about it.. half the dune2k site is dutch.. can't we make the language dutch instead of english? :P )

[Caid Ivik]

Actually, what IS nothing? Something what has no position, influence and definition. So if light does not exist, but we feel it and work with it, it exists. Or mathematics, how many things, i.e. 1+1 does not materially exists, but we can imagine it, so it exists at least in our minds. Some nihilists were just like that thinking about God, rational scientist think such about time. Light is. Not only we have a definition of it, we can feel it. Maybe when it turns into heat or solar electricity. Basical exotermical reaction. So, no action of the string is "full energy" or "full matter", light is bizzare because it is somewhere in the middle.

[Timenn]

Well, Einstein says: e=mc

[Caid Ivik]

What actually causes gravity isn't known. "g" you've showed is gravitonic acceleration, not gravity. As you showed, it is very relative due to movement of source. It is more like one-pole magnetic field, so the primary definitions of it are induction amd gravitonic force, which depends on mass (or mattery, number of atoms, please Timenn, use word "weight"). More mass, more gravity. Possibly is gravitonic energy carried by photon-like particles called gravitons. Like EM waves are carried by photons, gravitonic waves has photons. And maybe the speed of graviton is even bigger than speed of light. That depends on graviton source mass, and if it's bigger than photonic energy, it will become a black hole.

[TMA_1]

well there are a lot of theories on it. One is that gravity is actually a partical. It is called a graviton. They are extremely small and have no mass. Just because something doesnt have mass doesnt mean it isnt real. photons dont have mass but they do exist.

[Terror]

?? gravity is a force... every mass produces a gravity.. hell even I produce a gravity.. even though it is so small that noone feels anything of it... the moon however is large enough to create a noticable gravity field

[VigilVirus]

?? gravity is a force... every mass produces a gravity.. hell even I produce a gravity.. even though it is so small that noone feels anything of it... the moon however is large enough to create a noticable gravity field

Yes, every matter has mass and therefore has gravity, but energy is not matter.