How is the Church doing?

[emprworm]

thx for the edit! :)

[emprworm]

Acriku before you start telling me what Jesus taught, how about we just look at what he said. He never ever ever advocated violence. Anyone who acts maliciously in the name of Christianity acts alone outside Christianity.

This is proof that you do not need religion to be voilent. Violent atheists prove this time and time again. Quit blaming religion for violence.

[Acriku]

Empr get your head out of a aforementioned orifice and stop putting words in my mouth! I have never in this thread said that religion is the cause for violence. Your argument is misguided, and it is quite obvious that you do not have a good grasp on the topic, since you have no idea what you are talking about, are you arguing against someone who said religion is the cause of violence or are you arguing that athiesm is evil? Or perhaps you are arguing against nobody, since no one who has replied today has said anything about the above? Also, keep in mind Christianity is nowhere near as innocent as you prescribe.

[emprworm]

no not in this thread Acriku- but i have read posts from you elsewhere citing the over-used "crusades" crutch as a reason to trash religion. I originally was debating with Eric, but you intervened and joined in. Because you were defending him (his point was that religion is responsible for much of the evil of the world), therefore it was logical for me to conclude that you, too were sharing this view- especially since you would not deny it. But if you are denying it, I will no longer make that assumption.

[Acriku]

It was not logical at all, as I came in defending athiesm. And this thread is not subject to a few people, so anyone can intervene...But anyways, I do believe religion had a major factor in the crusades, etc, for if they was no religion, there would be nothing to differentiate those people that were another religion from yourselves. Take religion away, and there would be another difference to fight with. But since there is religion, those select people that were of a different religion died, because of their religion. But it was not the only cause for them.

[emprworm]

Take religion away, and there would be another difference to fight with. But since there is religion, those select people that were of a different religion died, because of their religion. But it was not the only cause for them.

ahhh ok. I guess I can accept that. The key to my agreeing with you is the phrase "take away religion and there would be another difference to fight with"...accurate statement.

The majority of crime in America (and we have a lot of it) is completely 100% free of religious views. People go into a store and shoot a guy for 20 bucks. It is despicable. It has nothing to do with atheism- nothing to do with religion.- its just people who hate.

And they can be atheists, buddists, zoroasters...whatever, it doesnt matter. they are going to hurt people regardless because it is in their nature to do so.

[Taqwa11]

I don't know where Edrico got that statistic about Christianity being a minority religion by, what was it, 2030? What will take its place as the majority? And don't say Atheism, because that is NOT a religion.

[exatreide]

oh yippers another religion thread. happy....happy....happy...joy...joy....

I think religion is a waste of time...Humans CAN live with out it.....

Athists seem to be be living quite fine with out being eaten by ravinous angles or demons or monkeys.......

Isnt everyone forgettting the american indians?

the aztecs?

the incas... Atacked for land and to convert them to relgion.

not just land, but for the forcefull conversion of people.

I dont think forcefull conversion is right....

people should belive what they should with out a bunch of empwor...puritans choping theire ears off for missing church the third time...

Posted by: Taqwa11 Posted on: Today at 20:53:08

I don't know where Edrico got that statistic about Christianity being a minority religion by, what was it, 2030? What will take its place as the majority? And don't say Atheism, because that is NOT a religion.

well most likely Islam.

[VigilVirus]

Heh, I agree with Ex. Religion is the cause of a lot of crime against human morality.

Religion does less good than evil. Just think of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and find me one thing there that is not caused by religion. And the worst is that it won't get resolved unless one group is gone.

There is nothing worse than a religious fanatic.

[TMA_1]

yes I know religion. he can be a nice guy but goodness he is violent. We should all tell religion that he isnt wanted anymore. Oh wait... Religion isnt a person but a collective of people. I just realized that we shouldnt judge a group, just individuals. ;)

[emprworm]

There is nothing worse than a religious fanatic

how about Mao ZeDong. Atheist fanatic. Biggest murderer in human history, topping the charts at 50 million.

there is nothing worse than a VIOLENT FANATIC - religion is irrelevant to fanaticism.

[TMA_1]

not to mention Adolf hitler who was involved in eugenics and mysticism. His striving was to create a super race by breeding "perfect humans" which dealt with darwinism. Also Joseph Stalin who killed millions who was an extreme athiest. Like I said, I know religion, he is a pretty nice guy.lol ;) judge individuals and not groups.

[Guest Eric E.]

Or Stalin :)

[emprworm]

people get fanatical over religion, but they were already fanatics looking for an object for their fanaticism. If there was no religion, they'd just be fanatical about something else. Take for example, the environment. People get fanatical about saving whales- so much so that they become violent against humans.

Take a fundamental islamic fanatic. Remove islam. You now have a fanatic with no object of his fanaticism. Give him time, he will find something else to grant him excuse to hate, mame, murder.

[Edric O]

I warned you Emprworm... despite the obvious facts that prove otherwise, a great number of people believe religion is the cause of all evil. This is one of those lies that is being told so often that people accept it as truth. :(

You know, I am amazed by how much I agree with you on this subject... :)

You took the words right out of my mouth:

Jesus never taught violence. He never hurt anyone. His teachings are non-violent. Therefore, it is accurate to say that Christianity does not promote violence.

Yet in practice we still see violence. Why is that? Can we therefore blame Christianity for violence? Logically, no. Yet atheists do all the time. Now lets take what you just said. On the surface, atheism does not promote violence. There is no teaching in atheism that says kill. Yet we see many atheists kill. Again, why is that? Is atheism therefore the cause of the killing? Again, NO

ThEREFORE: THERE IS A DEEPER CAUSE then religion/non-religion. Eliminating all religion from the earth will NOT remove violence.

People HATE in their hearts. They hate ALREADY. Religion/non-religion is just a way to justify/channel their hatred that ALREADY EXISTED PRIOR to them being religious. if you remove religion, people will just find other ways to justify/channel their already existing hatred and STILL be violent. Happens all the time. NOn-religious violent crime is extremely rampant in this world. IN the last hour, somewere within 50 KM of where you are sitting, there is a good chance someone just committed a non-religious crime of violence.

blaming religion for the world's hatred is really asenine and I have low tolerance when people do that.

This is my favourite Bible quote:

And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.

And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

- Mark 12:28-31

[emprworm]

well thanks, Edric. I am glad we can agree on the things that are most important in the universe. Everything else is rubbish compared to that. :)

[lowzeewee]

it sux.muslims will rule the world like the GLA in generals

[exatreide]

Atheism is not the cause for the murders and crime.

its the people shesh.

guns dont kill people

amunition dose.

[VigilVirus]

Response to Edric's quotes.

Christianity truly does not teach violence, but look at Judaeism and Islam with their eye for an eye and blood feuds. Or the Islam's jihad.

And it's not religion that is the cause of all evil - it is the diversity of religions.

[Acriku]

There are different types of Judaism teachings. Jesus himself taught one, Pharisaic, and that was all he taught. Then he started saying he was god. Rabbi's got pissed. Other rabbi's, a small percentage, believed him with his "miracles" (take note that Jesus went to Egypt to learn ancient healing techniques, and came back "performing miracles") so they followed him. The rabbi's needed to separate themselves from the Jesus followers. That whole group became christians. Christian teachings right now are nothing like they were in the beginning. It's all in this link: http://www.tcpc.org/resources/articles/many_voices_heschel.htm

Vigil, if it was a difference of religion that was the root of it all, then in fact religion was a major part of it.

A thing not many know about Hitler, was that he was fascinated by Atlantis, and sent archaeologists to the Mayan ruins, and other ruins, and uncovered skulls that were of a different shape. Hitler thought them to be the people of Atlantis. (They were in fact skulls from a religious practice by Natives, pressed in with boards to look deformed) Hitler wanted to repeat Atlantis and make the perfect race, just like Atlantis had done, and did his ways through this. It wasn't religion or lack thereof at all.

[Edric O]

Acriku, I don't need to point out that what you just said about Jesus is completely devoid of a single shread of proof, do I?

[TMA_1]

men kill from an individual desire. Some men control themselves and others dont. Anyways I realized, the church is the way its always been, currupt and evil. Only a few, the remnant, keep the strength. That is the way it is throughout history.

[exatreide]

How many athiest commited the mass slaughter of humans and animals.

what % of athiests have?

what % of christians have commited the mass slughter of humans and animals?

the point is. Its not the churh or the lack of one. its how the people interpet the teaching

[TMA_1]

damn straight Ex. now common sense is coming out.lol :)

[ordos45]

Okay, before Jihad can be expanded upon I have to say something.

Jihad literally means "struggle". Only one type of struggle is an actual war, and when used in that context, yes it is a "Holy War".

(Though IMO wars have never been holy.)