What would happen if the Internet Crashed?

[Anathema]

That's Goldeneye.

[DjCiD]

That's Goldeneye.

nope the Kurt Russell one...

well what if all the power and lights and electrical stuff went down too... kinda like in the K. Russell movie Escape From L.A.

did something with the satilites I just dont remember...

[VigilVirus]

Goldeneye is the one about exploding nuclear missiles in the upper levels of the atmosphere to destroy all technology down below.

[emprworm]

that is not a required function for the internall network to be kept alive. So a lot of local net's would be formed. Then it's just a metter of time until Sun or Microsoft sends one of there tech geeks to make them communicate with eatch other.

gryphon, I do not think you are recognizing the magnitude of this. A local network is nothing more than a private network. Those networks would not be able to communicate, effectively wiping out the backbone of the internet. Private (local) networks cannot communicate with each other. I said that IF the world becomes economically dependent upon the internet just to function (which is not currently), then such a disruption could be catastrophic- Lets say that someone takes over those root servers and reprogrammes all DNS entries to point somewhere other than they are supposed to. Within 3 days, nearly every DNS cache in the world would have a new DNS database and the people controlling the root servers would have absolute power over all internet destinations. You know CISCO routers? They do not "backup" their DNS entries. They get their entries live from an upstream source. Those upstream sources ultimately point to the root servers. You cannot just go in to a router and do a "restore". You cannot change 25 million routers overnight. They would all be wiped!!! No, Gryphon. If the DNS root servers were stolen and reprogrammed, the entire internet would collapse. In this case, the ONLY way to fix such a problem would be to re-write the entire TCP/IP Protocol Suite or implement a new protocol because all millions of computers would be pointing to the stolen DNS servers- and nothing would change that without re-programming the TCP/IP suite. You fail to grasp the utter magnitude that such a thing would cause. Why, Gryphon, do you think these 13 servers are spread out all over the world? Huh? Is that just by chance? NO. The internet would NOT function if the root servers were stolen and re-programmed. The DNS entry for www.microsoft.com could be changed to point to some terrorist hacker server in Buenos Aires, and all those millions of WIndows computers doing automatic updates could be re-directed to the hacker systems automatically downloading and installing trojans. In fact, EVERY SINGLE DNS entry in the world could be changed, and all those DNS servers which AUTOMATICALLY propogate would be updated with the new entries in as little as 72 hours the entire world could be reconfigured. This would not take days to fix, but decades to fix. Have you ever made a DNS record change to a domain name? Why do you think it takes 3-4 days to take effect? Because thats how long it takes for propogation to spread worldwide from the root servers. worldwide! DNS works through automatic updating. That is the ONLY WAY IT CAN WORK. . I am wondering if you really know how DNS works Gryphon. You drastically underestimate how horrible this problem could be. And that scares me too- people who think it is not a big problem when it IS

It is because if someone were to gain control of the root servers, they could completely re-structure the ENTIRE INTERNET literally overnight. It would be a catastrophe.

[Dude_Doc]

Hehe, this reminds me of Deus Ex. An "energy server" machine is running the world, from the big picture. If it's destroyed, all electricity will also die. And there is only one "ES", in Area 51. Hehe, reminds me little of this topic lol...

[Anathema]

You know, if everything fails, we can always go live in caves and hunt on deer.

[Acriku]

We could still cut and build houses out of wood/brick you know ::)

[VigilVirus]

Unless there is a global thermonucleart war humans are not going to revert back to the Stone Age. Even if technology is destroyed, people know how to remake it.

[gryphon]

...if you really know how DNS works Gryphon. ...

Think we have been over this before, but I don't peticulary like it that you are contstantly doubting other peoples knowledge on certain areas [ of expertise ].

gryphon, I do not think you are recognizing the magnitude of this. A local network is nothing more than a private network.

Those networks would not be able to communicate.

That's what I mentioned. The internal network will continue to function. Not the whole internet just the small seperate groups of local net's.

I said that IF the world becomes economically dependent upon the internet

just to function (which is not currently), then such a disruption could be catastrophic

That's right. You said if. Hypothetically if that would be the case.

But at this point the economy is not bependent upon the internet in such a matter. So it's not as catastrofic as you claim could be. Hence the economy is not depending on the internet right now as it in your case does.

So let's say it happend . . . .but it didn't. And the economy doesn't depend all that much upon those name servers. That's why it would not be a catastrovy when it would have happend.

If the DNS root servers were stolen and reprogrammed

You have got to be kidding me ?! Reprogramming a root server ?!

Reprogramm it to do what ? You might be able to alter some of the tables [ some = all in the worst case ] and data entries. But reprogramming a name server .... not a change in Hell if you're rooting it remotely.

The rest .. . if all 13 name serves would be taken over by a hacker group and this take over would be known but can't be helped by the real admins of the name serveres, all ISP's [ not the small ones but the ones holding the backbone connections in eatch country ] would dump there current settings and continue to operate on there last perameters. [ and yes there would be a lot of bugs in that ;D ].

Small internal net's would be sustained. [ and again I'm not saying the internet is still fully up and running, just those small net's ]

No new adresses wouldn't be downlinked from the origionall name servers, instead the "minor" name servers take over the role of those 13 root servers. Copies of the root name server files from just before the take over would be flown by tech geeks all over the world so in a matter of days they will have taken over the functions of the origionall serves. A big guess that the internet will not be as fast as before, and there will be some errors along the way. But my point is that it wouldn't shut down.

I am wondering if you really know how DNS works Gryphon.

Again, that slick of sarcasme in your post doubting other peoples knowledge.

You know I really hate that ?

Any way. The 13 root servers in question are not Domain Name Servers. It are name servers.

There is a small, verry small differance which I doubt [ and now is my turn sinds I recon from your posts that it's normall to doubt other peoples knowledge ] you are aware off.

Mayby becouse you failed to look further then the news reports and general information you could find about this just prior to posting this.

This makes your whole reply .. .well generally &*(*^.

You drastically underestimate how horrible this problem could be. And that scares

me too- people who think it is not a big problem when it IS

-

You know, even the guy's who did this knew it wouldn't pose a problem for long. They knew that there efford would be undone within a matter of hours, or days.

The main reason was not to criple te Internet. Not even close. You might even say it was personall ;)

So I wonder if you even know what happend the last 2 years [aprox] in planning this. And what it was all about. Then what scares me is that people like you always think to know what's going on. Always think to know you'r on top of tings but in fact ....your just guessing like the rest of us.

And ironically as that is .. .that comes closer to the reason why "ex-fluffy bunny members" have done what they did by attacking those name servers.

[emprworm]

funny gryphon you didnt say a word about the FACT that a take over of the root servers could re-design the entire internet in just 3 days. Such a CATASTROPHE would take years to fix, not days. But you skipped commenting on that most important point. Wonder why?

I believe you understand DNS. I believe you are too prideful to admit that it would be a complete catastrophe if those systems were hacked and/or physically stolen, and reprogrammed. You know that I am right, I dont think you will admit it. I told you DNS is propogated automatically. A change to the root servers database would destroy the entire internet in just days. You know this. You didnt comment on it. Why didnt you comment on it? Or is it, once again like everything with you, you will refuse to admit I am right about anything and instead argue everything even when I am factually 100% empirically right about something (as I am about this)

[gryphon]

funny gryphon you didnt say a word about the FACT that a take over of the root servers could re-design the entire internet in just 3 days.

-

The rest .. . if all 13 name serves would be taken over by a hacker group and this take over would be known but can't be helped by the

real admins of the name serveres, all ISP's [ not the small ones but the ones holding the backbone connections in eatch country ] would

dump there current settings and continue to operate on there last perameters. [ and yes there would be a lot of bugs in that ].

Small internal net's would be sustained. [ and again I'm not saying the internet is still fully up and running, just those small net's ]

No new adresses wouldn't be downlinked from the origionall name servers, instead the "minor" name servers take over the role of those

13 root servers. Copies of the root name server files from just before the take over would be flown by tech geeks all over the world so

in a matter of days they will have taken over the functions of the origionall serves. A big guess that the internet will not be as fast as

before, and there will be some errors along the way. But my point is that it wouldn't shut down.

-

That's what would happen [ at least that's their main backup plan ] if some one would take over all of the name servers.

Guess you can't deduce information from texts not written by yourself about things in your own opinion.

Now what didn't I comment upon ?

O yea, the fact that I have to be right .. . well.. . if you'r wrong you edit your posts without saying it was wrong, it just disapears or you "forget" it happend.

And I don't care about what a DNS is or even does, it's something totally different than one of the name severs, but I doubt you even would admit that nor even understand the differance.

Remember code red ?

You know the true intention of that virus was that is was a worm ? A worm that would automatically attack the White house and there IT infrastructure ?

Guesss what they did to solve that problem ? Disconnected the US governmental infrastructure and changed the connections. All of them, ports IP's servers protocolls and who knows what. That's not that hard to do, most Sun and Microsofts Unix systems have just a few buttons who make those adjustments for you.

A change to the root servers database would destroy the entire internet in just days.

Great, a nice centance some guy wrote in a new paper, but neither he nor you can back that up. 2 of those servers where down for a couple of minutes, together with the reboot they need and change in tables after that restart you can safely say they where down for a few hours. Have you noticed any change on the internet ?

Ok, it was slow for about one hour. ..but that is totally not related to a time spann of 3 days to filter down any information what-so-ever. Where the hell did you get that 3 day time spann ?! The direct link those servers have to eatch other is working a bit faster then 3 days. It doesn't even take 3 days to filter down any information over the Net.

But your probably guessing that by the time an host needs to make your URL "alive". You order "www.myhomepage.org" now and it takes about 3 dadys before it's active ? Guest what happends if you would have direct access to one of those name servers [ a stupid comparisson hence the size of those things, they have numerous of direct access pointsbut he, let's not get to much into that ]. It would take way less then 3 day to become alive, more like 3 minutes.

I am factually 100% empirically right about something

You are placing a hypothetical situation of what could happend as if that should really happen. Portraiing a "worst case senario" as the only option that will happen. But that's just you [ or somebody elses ] guess. And that's what you can't admit. That the things you mention are just theories of what could happen. You "personally" being right or wrong has got nothing to do with my reply. [ but I guess you just answered you'r own question there. lol ;D ]

[emprworm]

And I don't care about what a DNS is or even does, it's something totally different than one of the name severs, but I doubt you even would admit that nor even understand the differance.

lol! Internet DNS is dependent upon the root servers. Totally different? Rediculous. A root server is simply a "." server. The internet relies upon DNS. Without it, the internet would not function. For name resolution to happen, a DNS server requires an upstream source for name resolution which ultimately point to a root server. And the 12 mirror root servers obtain their list from the one single Master Server owned by ICANN. Now I do believe that you do not understand DNS.

[gryphon]

Just to start a simple reasoning patern you just used .. .but that's the only thing you'r commenting on from my last post ?

Those DNS's are just to link URL's to specific computers [ put simply ]. That would / could sease functioning. But that's not the entire internet.

There is no "one" server on which the internet depends. Na main server that handels al the requests, has all the data. Worst case cenario is that with 80% down the internet would still function. [ I thought it was about 80, could be a few % off though ].

Evem put more pimple. What you'r stating is just a theory of what could happen. But non of us has really any idea of what would happen if that situation would occure.

[ And yes I said neither of us, so that includes me ! ]

If you'd say the Internet is strickly linking a URL to o computer, you could verry well be totally right. But if you count the Internet as "the biggest network that spreads itself over the entire planet" [ or something like that ] there is no change that by just bringin down those root servers the internet will collapse.

But then "the day the internet stood still" was apropriately choosen. You won't be able to use URL's to connect to any computer.Checking your MSN, forum's daily commics or in some cases even your daily porn wouldn't be possible for almost all regular users. Butt all those cooperate VPN's and private net's will stay intact [ if they have a good admin ]. If they together wih the current ISP's would bundle there powers and resorses they can verry well, possibly

take over the function of the current name servers within a few days / hours.

[emprworm]

Evem put more pimple. What you'r stating is just a theory of what could happen. But non of us has really any idea of what would happen if that situation would occure.

[ And yes I said neither of us, so that includes me ! ]

fine. i guess we can end our argument on this note then.

i just hope we never have to find out

[Gobalopper]

I would be more worried about people taking out the major backbone lines, like the ones that cross the oceans, then the DNS servers being attacked.

For one you can't exactly physically steal the entire DNS server, especially every single one across the world. It's not just one computer sitting in a room at some guys office. Its also very doubtful you could hack into every single server either, its not like they are running Microsoft products. ;)

They can also handle huge amounts of traffic and there are also backup servers that could be used. I'm sure if there was a massive organization who had spent a lot of time co-ordinating attacks it could be possible but the chances are very slim.

[emprworm]

Its also very doubtful you could hack into every single server either, its not like they are running Microsoft products.

LOL

[Desert_Eagle25]

The internet has MANY MANY backups, thats fer sure. what by the way, what does '(sp?)' mean? I know, i sound stupid :'(

[DjCiD]

Its also very doubtful you could hack into every single server either, its not like they are running Microsoft products.

LOL

Seems like ol' Gates has his hand in every piece of the pie... ;D

[Acriku]

Desert eagle = sp = spelling? As in they don't know if that is spelled write (sp?), you get my drift?

Empr, why do you read a reply and only post about one simple paragraph and ignore the whole reply? Perhaps because you are wrong or just lazy? You tend to do this a lot.

[emprworm]

no i dont

[katnip03]

freaky stuff. I don't know much about all of this but if it happens we are in a world of hurt. Not to mention everything else we don't know...it is just getting too freaky.