how racism really started

[TMA_1]

I heard a great talk on Tony Brown's Journal about how racism may have started. Many people point to religion and other big players but this african american professor says it started with social darwinianism. That certain classes socialogically are "inferior". Like blacks, asians, Americans, eastern europeans and so on. Also with Eugenics and the idea of breeding a superior race of men. It started with bad science. what do you guys think?

[Anathema]

I don't think it ever "started", I think it has always existed. People need to consider somebody an enemy, to focus hate and agression on. And since we don't have aliens, we resort to other people.

[TMA_1]

actually it hasnt really always existed. I have never found any account of racism in antiquity.

[Terror]

well, i don't know... but it just think that it is because people feel superior to others...

[Inoculator9]

That's how modern racism (1500-1900) started. African being black are seen as a slightly more advanced monkey. Europeans saw it as a means of training lower creatures to do their dirty work. If they could have trained gorillas to do it they would have.

[Anathema]

If an African tribe were to defeat another, the losers would become slaves. They often traded these slaves with Europeans. But yes, African people were treated as apes.

[SurlyPIG]

That's how recent slavery was started. Racism has existed as long as there have been people of difference. Prejudice and discrimination based on prejudice has and always will exist as long as people of difference are interacting with each other. Since we are all different, that is an inevitabilty. There has and always will be people who are intolerant and condescending based on insignificant distinctions. That is unchangeable. It is as old as humanity itself.

[TMA_1]

actually it isnt. The only mention of racism in ancient times that I have found was the cast system of some of the hindu cultures. The bible is never showing of racism. Anybody can become a jew. Moses married two black women in his life. Some of the people who helped some of the great prophets were of different races. even christ's line has some prosolite jews. racism really started in america and other nations with the advent of slavery and trying to find a "good reason" behind it. Also like I said social darwinianism and eugenics.

[SurlyPIG]

Darwin's principle never applied to humans. Any human can be the biggest idiot and still have a dozen kids. Or they can be a total genius and never have a snigle offspring. History is written by the dominators and the victors. Of course they're not going to say that they enslaved these people, outcasted those people etc. And BTW, the Christian bible says that after armageddon and the return of Christ, 2/3 of the Jews will die and the remainder will acknowledge christ and convert. So yes, there was religous discrimination back then too. It basically says the Jews will either convert or die. LOL. Ludacris. I don't know why so many people choose to interpret their bible literally. Besides, two thousand years ago there weren't the mixes of people we see today. Most everyone was isolated in their own little world.

[TMA_1]

This is a discussion on racism, Dont take your attitude in here.lol Also its called "Social Darwinianism" It is not involved with the exact terms of macro evolution. It was started by a man named Mark Spenser. It talks about how many human races are inferior and will die out. Many horrible bigots talk about how the white race is more advanced and that the other races will die out. Keep on subject ace or dont contribute at all.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Africans are related to the Arabians. Racism existed when.... the humans builded Rome. :)

Other cultures and countries despises the other color and cultures of the other, and racism will always exist, no matter what the people is going to do.

Sure Racism could end, but only if the Nations enforce it.

If you say "jew" for example. You will get a fine or thrown into jail. Though, that will not be a great idea for a nation.

* Presses the Civil war button. * ;D

[Inoculator9]

Interpretations of evolution is a good example of how racism and slavery started. But in ancient Egypt the Nubians were enslaved. The skin color and body types between the two was extremely similar. Some cultures used slavery as a means to aserert their dominance.

[TMA_1]

Slavery has nothing to do with racism. Racism is something totally different. I have not once come across a middle eastern or western culture in ancient times that was as racist as america. they really werent even racist from what I see.

[Inoculator9]

That's true, few cultures were as racist as the americans. But racism has quite a bit to do with slavery. If we had respected and appreciated the africans we wouldn't have enslaved them. But during the really early history of england they had foreign children (black or indian) to act as attendants. The English were very racist during their early history.

[TMA_1]

no no the europeans and americans were racist. I am talking about slavery in ancient times.

[SurlyPIG]

I have not once come across a middle eastern or western culture in ancient times that was as racist as america.

True. But it didn't start in the US. It started as soon as people of difference met each other. Indians and Arabs have always been racist towards each other. Racism starts as soon as cultures of distinct physical difference develop the means to transport themselves to meet other cultures. And Innoc is right, enslavement based on race is racism...lol

[Inoculator9]

I think americans are still somewhat racist, more along the lines of stereotyping. This what I meant. I hear some weird stories from african americans about them bringing home some electronic equipment and getting busted by some stupid cop because it looks like they stole it. A lot of people are still racist, maybe just subconsciously, but the they are.

[TMA_1]

slavery has nothing to do with racism. You can be a racist slave and a non racist one. In many ancient nations like rome. There were slaves that were africans, greeks, persians. Slavery is seperate from racism but there can be racism along with slavery.

[Inoculator9]

Well of course all the situations aren't the same, I'm just saying that it does happen. In Rome they acquired slaves mostly through conquests.

[Acriku]

Inoc, racism still exists but let's not be hypocritical like you seem to be (stereotyping Americans as racists). Sure there are some bad apples, but I like all mankind, whether he be yellow, red, white, or black. Hell I would say good morning to a purple dude. And sorry to say but there are so many African Americans shoplifting these days it's not funny. Every corner I see black teens with trade signatures walking and cursing to cars that go by, and every robbery I have seen or heard of at Publix were black people. So it would be a good idea to check out people that dress like "gangsters" walking with expensive equipment (get real, like people who live in the suburbs will suddenly buy expensive electronic equipment, it can happen but it is very suspicious). Not all black people steal, but a lot of the "teen gangsters" do.

[The_Sadukar]

slavery in the old roman empire was not based on race, then slaves were defeatet enemies (who survived), or criminals, sometimes it were poeple who had no chance of paying off their debt.

[Caid Ivik]

Racism? One white saw a black and frightened. Or when Cortes attacked Incas, they thought he was a God, because he has other body color.

[pointybum]

Perhaps if we ask that question of racism to the yanomami tribe in the amazon rain forest, what would their interpretation of racism be? This is a close to TMA's topic we can get without mixing modern interpretations (200 years) into the boil.

They fear white man because of heresay, this heresay being that white man captures, enslaves, and then trade them to the markets. So, are they judging white man as being smarter? Or are they judging the white man as a savage (global?) tribe.

And if one looks back in time, the Romans done a good job of influencing white superiority over other colours. Was this because they organised themselves more intelligently, and would being white be the coincidental factor, or is there something in the genetics that suggests that white must empower no matter what?

I dont think so. Information is power, the Romans realised that. I think it was a coincidence that they were white and coupling it with good organisation, they dominated a fair chunk of the world and probably started the whole racism spoil.

[Dude_Doc]

I think I heard, some time ago, that there are racist animals, or somekind of that. This means that, for example, that a bunch of white pigs will not accept a black pig, and vice versa. So what happens? The black/whie pig will die, because he won't be nurtured by his mom, or etc. So maybe this also flows in our veins? I mean, would you become more racist if, say (no offence), an asian man came and killed your family/friend/lover? Would it depend on how your view of the induvidual person, or his family, race and country as one? Then comes the other question: what did his country do? Well, he was born there, or, his ancestors came from there. Or, well, the person himself is not normal to come to your house and kill for no reason. That is some of the question. Who will you hate and why?

[quoudam72]

Racism is based apon one race of people's interpertation of another as we have determined so far. Racism is something more because it usually involves many factors. Let's start with what TMA_1 pointed out about slavery in ancient times. Slaves usually were aquired by battle with the losers being taken into slavery by the victors (rooted in tribal behavior). Many cultures have done it (slavery due to battle) in their history (Romans,Mayaians,Africans,Babylonians,Assyrians etc.,etc.) so it was not about racsim in some cases it was about who won and who lost. Slaves were permitted (Bible) but you were suppose to treat your as humans (but even with this to may have only applied to tribes that were of the same race).

The mentioning of the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade was based on racism without a doubt Europe needed to finaly conquer Africa. Racism has all these excuses why a person is inferior to the point of utter ignorance. Someone mentioned bad science let us not forget bad education (or lack of education). Let's take Africa for example European scholars and their thoughts about Africans. European scholars considered Africans to be inferior based apon the development of Africa (mainly the interior beacuse as we know Northern Africa has always shared a relationship with the Mediterranean). I point this out because many (scholars) considered Egypt not to be a part of Africa all to discredit Africans themselves. The very logic in this suggests racism is somehow a factor. Another example would be Spainish conquest of South America. Both Africa and South America are harsh lands that have yet to be as developed as say other countries but there are many factors that have to be considered that make these countries developed in the first place.