Debates...

[TMA_1]

Goodbye TMA? lol

Ego trip edric. You obviously will earn when you are older. I never said I was out of the argument. I have stated before that I am just as bad as every other teen. I just know my place. Your opinions are emotional and out of touch. You are losing ground because your emotions rule. Your whole argument is that you are just as mature as an adult. You say that your emotions dont rule but your emotional posts prove my point. By the way big words wont prove your intelligence.lol

Also CAPITALIZING YOUR POINTS LIKE THIS dont do much to help.lol ;)

[SurlyPIG]

LOL TMA, read the link and tell me it's not a good idea. Or are you actually saying you share the opinion of people like Saddam Hussaine on this issue? I suppose you think slavery is ok too. If the UDHR was upheld across the globe, the world would be a *WAY* better place. Period. If you disagree with any of the principles of the UDHR, then point them out, and tell me your own. I could use a good laugh.

You have 'yet' to grow older to legally drive a car, legally have sex, legally drink, legally smoke, legally get a job, legally get married, legally get a mortgage, and legally have kids (not in that order), and you tell me you are the wiser.

So what you're saying is that anyone who isn't a driving, drinking, smoking, married, mortgage-retaining, non-virgin parent is worthless.

LOL. That sounds pretty elitist to me. You may have all the things you just listed but what you lack is a reasonable moral code. I feel sorry for any teenage patients you may have. I actively disassociate myself from people with your views in reality. You say you can relate to teenagers, having been one, but obviously you can't. You are far more out of touch than you think you would like to believe.

[Acriku]

*GASP!* You mean all this time I have been illegally going to work?

[TMA_1]

lol oh yeah. I love slavery and man saddam. He is amazing! ;) typical teenage anger put out. He thinks he can win by "offending" me when he is really making an ass out of himself.

[ordos45]

Just have to say:

1. If you have a liscence and are 16, you can legally drive in the US.

2. Legally having sex? You mean it is illegal for two people of the same age who love each other to have sex?

3. I can legally drink on my trip to Cancun this Spring Break if I wish, yet I will not.

4. Legally smoke, like in the US, only two more years. Or once again, in Cancun...but I won't.

5. Legally get married. So what exactly is an illegal marriage? I know that law prohibits homosexual marriages, but outside of that, what is an illegal marriage. I mean, some trbies in Africa a ten year old can legally be married to a man three times her age.

6. Legally have kids? Okay, under US law, you have sex, you have a child, oh well. Only if you are seen as an unfit parent will it be taken away, and thus unless it is the byproduct of a rape it is not illegal. Of course, I am unfamiliar with the law system of the United Kingdom.

7. Mortgage, hate to tell you, I'm not sure about the UK, but I could rent an apartment now, legally.

I'll quit adding to this now, because it has strayed from TMA_1's original thoughts on debating and has become a debate itself. So, this is my last post in this thread.

[pointybum]

LOL TMA, read the link and tell me it's not a good idea. Or are you actually saying you share the opinion of people like Saddam Hussaine on this issue? I suppose you think slavery is ok too. If the UDHR was upheld across the globe, the world would be a *WAY* better place. Period. If you disagree with any of the principles of the UDHR, then point them out, and tell me your own. I could use a good laugh.

You have 'yet' to grow older to legally drive a car, legally have sex, legally drink, legally smoke, legally get a job, legally get married, legally get a mortgage, and legally have kids (not in that order), and you tell me you are the wiser.

So what you're saying is that anyone who isn't a driving, drinking, smoking, married, mortgage-retaining, non-virgin parent is worthless.

LOL. That sounds pretty elitist to me. You may have all the things you just listed but what you lack is a reasonable moral code. I feel sorry for any teenage patients you may have. I actively disassociate myself from people with your views in reality. You say you can relate to teenagers, having been one, but obviously you can't. You are far more out of touch than you think you would like to believe.

Do you wear the same underpants as Edric?

Cut the crap and be honest with me - the teenagers in the feminists thread - do you think they are qualified to make derogatory comments about women.

It aint a hard question - a yes or no answer.

[exatreide]

how old are you pointy?

[SurlyPIG]

[quote author=Acriku

[TMA_1]

Nah not trying to win favor Ace. I have been coming to this site since 99. Joined the forums in 2001. I really dont care what people think of me, hence my unpopularity.lol I dont know pointy too well but he seems alright. You are too emotional. Please cool down so that your arguments make sense.

"and I'll be happy to point out the flaws in your arguement."

"I think it's quite impossible for anyone who isn't a communist or a bigot to disagree with the UDHR."

I am probably going to regret this but you are extremely arrogant and hypocritical. You say what you fight against. You prove your own teen immaturity. I am just envisioning your post against this one. I know what it will say.lol

[SurlyPIG]

You are far more emotional than I am, TMA. I do not run around calling everyone who disagrees with me an ass.

For the fourth time, why don't you actually read the UDHR before you take a position on it. That is bad debate. That would be like randomly picking someone to vote for in an election.

If you disagree with ANYTHING in the UDHR, say so. If you are not specific, I can only assume you disagree with all of it. And it DOES condemn slavery, so thats where I drew that arguement from. I have asked you in 3 posts, 4 times to actually READ what you were posting about, and you obviously have not. The UDHR seems long, but it's mostly spacing. 30 rights. They are extremely well written and easy to interpret. I genuinely doubt that anyone using good logic can disprove anything in the UDHR. If you can, good on you. Let's see it.

As to your last paragraph, I find it amusing that you'll call me all these things and not give a sinle reason for saying so. Hypocritical? That's laughable. I compel you to find one example of me being hypocritical. You, on the other hand are because you express the opinion that the opinions of teens are generally incorrect, yet you are a teen. Do you not see the backward flaw in that arguement?

I don't actually think you believe what you called me, though. I'll give you more credit than that. I call this the "big boy flame technique". Instead of calling stupid someone stupid and gay, it's hypocritical and arrogant. A thesaurus doesn't make you any less wrong.

[TMA_1]

nah I still stick with my opinions about you. Also I disagree completely with the UN. Not fundimental human rights. Young people do not need extra rights. For our history as humans it has always been the case that kids were to follow their adults. Some great cultures that were not racist, bigoted, trustworthy, righteous and loyal did the same for their kids in disipline and raising of children. What you propose is the destruction of child raising. Its seen by logic. Teen's opinions for adults are not as important as adult opinions.

I have many problems with the UN and dont really give a crap what they say. so the laws only prove that you have the rights you want.

Your immaturity is pointed out by saying I love saddam and am pro slavery. It is a good attempt to get me emotional. I just wont go down to that level. I stick to my opinions I said before about you.

[pointybum]

LOL TMA, read the link and tell me it's not a good idea. Or are you actually saying you share the opinion of people like Saddam Hussaine on this issue? I suppose you think slavery is ok too. If the UDHR was upheld across the globe, the world would be a *WAY* better place. Period. If you disagree with any of the principles of the UDHR, then point them out, and tell me your own. I could use a good laugh.

You have 'yet' to grow older to legally drive a car, legally have sex, legally drink, legally smoke, legally get a job, legally get married, legally get a mortgage, and legally have kids (not in that order), and you tell me you are the wiser.

So what you're saying is that anyone who isn't a driving, drinking, smoking, married, mortgage-retaining, non-virgin parent is worthless.

LOL. That sounds pretty elitist to me. You may have all the things you just listed but what you lack is a reasonable moral code. I feel sorry for any teenage patients you may have. I actively disassociate myself from people with your views in reality. You say you can relate to teenagers, having been one, but obviously you can't. You are far more out of touch than you think you would like to believe.

Right, now seeing that you have agreed that the majority were talking out of context of reality when discussing feminists, there was relevancy to why I suggested the lines on drinking, driving, smoking, as well as other things - to assist you guys in seeing the overall picture. Your naff reply demonstrates total lack of understanding of the ongoing topic. This was aimed at Edric who seems intent that he is better than the average teenager, and of course, better than adults. He has offered no support to his theory other than slander. Then you trump in and say what you've just said? What am I to gather from your posts other than your constant picking at one line or the next without understanding the whole ethics of the discussion?

Explain the difference between contradictory and hypocritical. Do you know the difference? And if so, tell me why you cannot possibly be neither.

I mean, lets face it, you're the one who suggests 'try not to read between the lines too much'.

Eh? Are you sure?

And yes, re-read all the crap you have written and then try to piece my threads together. The minor puzzles will reveal fairness to my comments than the so-called corruptness you are trying to pin me with.

It is my job to make people feel better, my way to do this is to follow the honesty route from the start. Honesty gets to the root/truth of the problem faster - not assumptions - they can lead you anywhere just like this thread has so many times.

I am not here to look for agreeance, I am here to ask for honesty so that something good can be yielded from the debates.. It seems that this is not the case, nor will it ever be seeing we cannot see, smell, or touch each other.

:)

[Acriku]

Quote from: Acriku

[SurlyPIG]

EDIT : Sorry for the huge post and sorry to Acriku...I thought you were directing your post to me.

nah I still stick with my opinions about you. Also I disagree completely with the UN. Not fundimental human rights.

The fact that the UDHR came from the UN does not make it any less relevant. Your total unwillingness to cooperate in this "debate" (and I use the term loosely) is demonstrated in the fact that, despite my asking 4 times, you DID NOT ACTUALLY READ THE UDHR. How can you pass judgement on something you do not know in the slightest? Ever heard the expression "Don't judge a book by its cover."? I asked you what the big problem was with the UDHR. Since you just say you are against it, I can only assume you are against it all. From that it is logical to assume you are pro-slavery, pro-discrimination, pro-feudal, and pro-torture. If you do not tell me otherwise, how am I to assume you do not agree with any of these things?

Young people do not need extra rights.

Finally you see my point. As far as freedom of expression is concerned, they deserve the SAME rights. They are people and should be treated as such.

For our history as humans it has always been the case that kids were to follow their adults. Some great cultures that were not racist, bigoted, trustworthy, righteous and loyal did the same for their kids in disipline and raising of children. What you propose is the destruction of child raising. Its seen by logic. Teen's opinions for adults are not as important as adult opinions.

Really? Name some. There has never, EVER been a completely in-discriminatory culture and there never will be. What I propose is the reckognition that everyone is a person and should be treated as such. What I propse is the abolition of the old belief "Children are to be seen and not heard." I have never ONCE spoken about anything other than freedom of opinion, and freedom of expression. What YOU are saying is basically "STFU until you're X years old." Where do you draw the line? 18? 21? 45? 60? 75? Tell me, TMA, at what age does someone become a person? At what age does someone stop being a person?

I have many problems with the UN and dont really give a crap what they say. so the laws only prove that you have the rights you want.

We are becoming a globalized planet. The actions of one nation can effect the entire world. Do you really have so little foresight that you cannot see the problems that would exist if the entire world was one big free-for-all? The UN tries to protect the rights and interests of every person and culture in the world. I don't know what you were trying to say in that second sentence, if you meant the UDHR or the rights that are actually upheld and practiced.

Your immaturity is pointed out by saying I love saddam and am pro slavery. It is a good attempt to get me emotional. I just wont go down to that level. I stick to my opinions I said before about you.

Lies. All lies and exaggerations. I said that you shared the opinion of Hussaine on the subject of the UDHR. Never once did I say you loved, followed, or agreed with his principles (lie #1). I said "I suppose you think slaver is ok too." How am I to know if you do or you don't if you say you disagree with the UDHR? Again, that is your arrogance and your ignorance. I mean, ffs, you didn't even read despite my asking you to four times. So since you tell me you just plain disagree with the UDHR, I assume it's with it all. And you havn't even denied it, becaus you don't even know what you're talking about. I will not answer any more replies on this matter until you actually read the UDHR.

Right, now seeing that you have agreed that the majority were talking out of context of reality when discussing feminists, there was relevancy to why I suggested the lines on drinking, driving, smoking, as well as other things - to assist you guys in seeing the overall picture. Your naff reply demonstrates total lack of understanding of the ongoing topic. This was aimed at Edric who seems intent that he is better than the average teenager, and of course, better than adults. He has offered no support to his theory other than slander. Then you trump in and say what you've just said? What am I to gather from your posts other than your constant picking at one line or the next without understanding the whole ethics of the discussion?

Sorry, I still fail to see how drinking poisions, inhaling toxins, and operating heavy machinery can make one's OPINION more vailid. And I fail to see why I am supposed to defend Edric's post, but I will. Never once did he say that he was above adults. He said he was more mature than many of his peers, and DID prove it, remember? He mentioned that he goes to the best HS in his country. And you should at least acknowledge that he doesn't seem like the typical teenager. If you think my beliefs are less valid just because they are likely to change over the course of my lifetime, then I can say the same about you. Your view on certain things are likely to change as you grow older and become a senior.

Explain the difference between contradictory and hypocritical. Do you know the difference? And if so, tell me why you cannot possibly be neither.

Being hypocritical is the opposite of "practice what you preach". It would be, like my good buddy taqwa11 said, like swearing to a life of celebacy then buying a subscription to a porno magazine. Hypocracy is saying one thing and doing something different. Contraction is the opposition of arguements. An example would be TMA's. His opinion is that his opinion is irrelevant. It's a paradigm. It's contradictory. If you think something I've said here is contradictory to what I've said in another thread, say so. I'd like to fix it up. I do my absolute best to meintain everything I have said here regarding freedom of expression everywhere else in my life. You wouldn't really be able to tell if I am hypocritical or not, because you don't know me in real life and you don't know if I really practice the principles I preach on this forum.

I mean, lets face it, you're the one who suggests 'try not to read between the lines too much'.

Not quite sure what you mean by that...

And yes, re-read all the crap you have written and then try to piece my threads together. The minor puzzles will reveal fairness to my comments than the so-called corruptness you are trying to pin me with.

As I have said all along, if you wish to pin stereotypes on people, fine. It's natural for people to do that. It makes it easier for us. It makes it so that we don't necessarily have to get to know someone completely before we can pass judgement on them. But we must not let the stereotypes cloud our judgement. And we must be able to accomodate for any and all exceptions to these stereotypes. That has been and is my only arguement against you, and it is mostly derived from this statement:

I cannot accept an intelligent argument from a teenager but I would from an adult

I still see no reason why you cannot accept both, if both are intelligent. If a 14-year-old and a 40-year-old said exactly the same thing to you, would you accept the 40-year-old's opinion more simply because he/she is older? How about if they were 40 and 75? Or 75 and 110?

It is my job to make people feel better, my way to do this is to follow the honesty route from the start. Honesty gets to the root/truth of the problem faster - not assumptions - they can lead you anywhere just like this thread has so many times.

You can't live everything. You have to assume some stuff. You have to guess some stuff. You have to observe some stuff. Sometimes we become the product of our time and the media. This isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as what we see and hear is true.

I am not here to look for agreeance, I am here to ask for honesty so that something good can be yielded from the debates.. It seems that this is not the case, nor will it ever be seeing we cannot see, smell, or touch each other.

Do you think I am being dishonest in what I post? How did you come to that conclusion? Did you assume it (you denounced that in your previous paragraph)? If that's the case then you are no better than I.

[zamboe]

I've heard once about a Universal Declaration of Basic Children's Rights, also sponsored by the UN, however I am not 100% sure that it exists. Guys, have u ever heard about it ?

I mention this because this probablly makes a difference and distintion with the UDHR and therefore put Children's rights at a different perspective.

[TMA_1]

lol whoa ace. I have never known you care that much about what I have to say. Thanks. On another note I dont have to follow anything I dont want to as long as I follow the constraints of my country. Globalism isnt something that I should just accept because its happening. It sounds like nazi germany. When the prolitariats succumbed to the power of hitlers "third reign". I dont succumb to anything I dont want to and will die for what the lord gave me. Conformists like you are the kind that destroy the fabric of our society. Read Gibbon's Decline and Fall of Rome. When a nation becomes lax in its original foundations and comprimises its basic beliefs than you see its total destruction. I will not read your UN laws because I dont want to read them. I am a simple man. I do things in an order that I see best by the Lord. I dont have to prove my righteousness to you because you arent worth it.lol

[SurlyPIG]

Zam, I did a search and found nothing. There is no mention of one at the UN's site either. There are several children's rights groups and organizations, but the UN made sure there is absolutely no distinction between any people's basic rights. There is likely one, though, made by some third party organization.

TMA, that's a better way to post. You seem very anti-globalization. Well, it was your country that initiated the trend with foreign trading. It expanded it's views of a free market and capitalism to places that weren't ready for them, and created a huge mess of problems wherever they went. Granted, other capitalist countries were also involved, but the first and the biggest contributor to globalization is by far the US. You might be surprised to learn that the UN is fairly ANTI-globalization. They make their decisions on a board of representatives from each country. Each nation, no matter what its size, power, population, or economy, has two representatives. They actually PROTECT against the destruction of cultures. They set up the new Afgani government, for example. They brought freedom to the 10.5 million Afgani women that were almost enslaved under the Taliban. The fact that you won't even read anything about them or written by them demonstates complete intolerance and a total lack of willingness to cooperate. Reading anything doesn't make you believe it. If it did why would we be arguing? No, learn first, then pass judgement.

It seems to me that you don't really know what you are talking about, on this issue, and that you are simply regurgitiating the opinions of ignorance that you are surrounded with. You don't have to and shouldn't be simply a product of everyone around you. Are your parents anti-globalization? I'm not surprised by your position, though. Many Americans are anti-UN because they don't want to disarm their warheads and give food and development money away to third-world countries.

[TMA_1]

lol. Your so full of it. Thats why nobody has posted. Someday you may grow up. I doubt it by how yo uact. ALso the globalization started in WW 1 by many nations. Not just america. Study your history.

[SurlyPIG]

Ok, so I'M the one who's supposed to grow up? Well then Mr. High Horse, explain this;

edric. Your full of prunes.lol

he is really making an ass out of himself.

you are extremely arrogant and hypocritical. You say what you fight against. You prove your own teen immaturity. I am just envisioning your post against this one. I know what it will say.lol

I dont have to prove my righteousness to you because you arent worth it.lol

Your so full of it.

It's like I said, practice what you preach. You call me immature, yet you are so uncooperative that you won't even READ what I post about. That's quite a sad case. 17, and you're already totally arrogant and completely stuck in your ways. A redneck, essentially. Oh, and this isn't a religious debate. I could care less what your religion thinks of this matter.

[TMA_1]

A redneck is a man or woman from the south that stays out in the sun too long without any protection on the neck and eventually get a sunburn.

I dont live in the south and am not prone to sunburns.lol

I love my highhorse. It is so precious to me. ;)

I stick to my opinions about you and love how you argue your case even though you are talking exactly about yourself. Not me.

[SurlyPIG]

LOL, and you call me a hypocrit. I gave 5 examples of you being a flamer, then you turn righ back around, call ME immature, and don't post a single example or arguement. Learn to debate, ok? You're just making yourself look naive and you're desparation is apparent by your posting "because god said so" nonsense. You have nothing to defend yourself with so you're acting like you're holier than thou and taking condescending pot shots. It reflects quite badly on you.

[TMA_1]

because I am just playing with you.lol I wouldnt debate with you because its a waste of time.

[TMA_1]

lol the reason why I am not debating with you is because I am playing with you. Debating with you would solve nothing and would take too much of my time. so I am just sparking discussion. that simple. Your emotions show your true teen attitude.

[SurlyPIG]

The reason you won't debate is because you're dead wrong. You really don't think much of me if you think I can't see that.

I'm in much better control of myself than you are, and it shows in my posts. Every post you make is "Your emotions show your true nature" blah blah blah "Typical teen attidute" this that and the other thing. You made this topic, you called it "Debates..." If you are unwilling to debate, then don't post in it. You're obviously not sparking discussion, you're trying to start conflict so you can say "See look Im right your out of control stupid teenager haha" At least pointy would sort of back up what he said. Yeesh, so hard to find good help these days...

[TMA_1]

lol I would argue but not with you and I dont think much of you. It has nothing to do with weather I could win or not. Geesh I mean you are smart but you just dont get it.