Debates...

[Edric O]

Actually... among Star Trek races, the Vulcans are my favourite.

[nemafakei]

"And you analise yourself non stop?"

Not to do so during logical argument, at least, is foolish.

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Edric O, the Ordos fanatic and Vulcan worshipper...... What's next? :)

[pointybum]

My argument has nothing to do with opinion on women/the feminism topic! I don't even post in it!

I only resent your generalisations, pointybum. They are ridiculous and an insult to many people. Yes, I agree that most teens are like you describe. But not all of us. ACE put it best:

Pointybum, Edric and I aren't argueing the generalizations you make, in fact, I suspect he agrees with them, as I do. What we are argueing is why WE deserve to be ignored because of the actions of those our age. You have said that, no matter what the arguement, you would hold the words of a teenager in with less regard, if any, than those of an adult. Reckognize that there are exceptions to any generalization and your outlook should accomodate those exceptions.

As a psychologist, I would have expected you to realize that each person is an individual personality and should not be stereotyped.

The only value of experience is that it provides knowledge in certain fields. But you can't have "experience" in religion (one of my main debate topics). As for politics, do you have any experience in that field, pointybum?

Furthermore, your nick clearly demonstrates your "maturity", doesn't it? ::)

TMA, stop insulting my mind and my intelligence. If you continue with comments about my mind being unstable, etc., just because I am in a certain age group, I will report this flaming to the mods. Keep me out of your generalisations.

Yes, I do have a very short temper and I am quick to anger. But it does not affect my judgement. I never acted irrationally since I was 12. I do not endorse teen "culture". I do not take people's appearence into consideration when forming an opinion about them. I do not follow sexual impulses. I do not attempt to hide my personality in order to be in line with socially accepted standards.

I didn't get into the best highschool in my country by being stupid.

Well, what have I done so far? I have merely asked for honesty in these boards and I get tramped on for suggesting that adults are smarter than teenagers.

Somebody who has a quick temper is losing control. Put these to a debate and the one thats shouting the most is the one not listening thus subconciously bullying their opinion across. Eventually, this undermines other people's chain of thought, perhaps inducing a kind of 'don't you dare have a different opinion cos I can shout louder than you' syndrome . So when the traffic only goes one way how is the debate considered fair. I havent dared get involved in your debated love for politics and religion, it'd just be a flaming exercise. Seeing that you are a Fed2k staffer that would concern me.

The feminist and shooter threads were my cues to support my comments, you have chosen to dis-regard them completely without intelligent consideration. I don't know why but I have touched your raw nerve. I have been fair where you have been short (your words - I have a 'very' short temper and quick to anger). You've still not offered a thoughtful point that suggests that you are better than others in your age group, and better than persons who have lived longer than you, whereas I have done this several times. And laughably, you still sit there and tell me you are not stupid (your word).

My name? Whats maturity got to do with it? Growing older consists of building on one's sense of humour, not losing it.

I like to think you are clever Eric but you need to encourage me a bit more to support this in your favour.

[pointybum]

Not non stop, just when I'm particulary angry, or otherwise susceptible to go nuts. :) And when I'm in the mood for self-evaluation (about once a month or so...)

Of course I'm not always logical, but I'm working on that ;)

Infact, dont bother - you've done your answer already.

[pointybum]

Dr Pointybum (I assume), I still fail to see your point.

It is (I hope) all agreed that teenagers do not have much experience of the world compared to their elders (and so can and do often make untrue assumptions and calims). Thus, on average, the elders should indeed be wiser. But we have not yet accounted for the deviation from this mean.

I agree that there are numerous people

You seem to simultaneously say

- That you do not judge people by stereotypes, but know eash to be individuals. From this, we can deduce that there will be perceptive teenagers who know more than others, and gain more from ther experiences.

- That the adults will be invariably wiser than the teenagers. (From this we can deduce that either knowledge and intelligence increases far beyond that of the variation in the population at a given age, or that as time goes on, the youth get thicker (ie measuring different individuals, but the same sections of society over time)).

- That those (A) who have less experience than others (B) should not speak as if they have any experience of a topic to a group ©, who could be even less experienced. If we did this, education would come to a standstill.

We know that variation in intelligence and perception are high, and that youth are not getting thicker over time, and that most of the point of childhood is preparation for social circumstances, and gaining experience.

Neither side has given evidence, as for this topic, it is not really possible. Hence, we need a logical basis for both arguments.

Would you kindly state, in one post, WHAT your stance actually is?

Where is your logical trail in this?

- That the adults will be invariably wiser than the teenagers. (From this we can deduce that either knowledge and intelligence increases far beyond that of the variation in the population at a given age, or that as time goes on, the youth get thicker (ie measuring different individuals, but the same sections of society over time)).

And again. Where is your logical trail in this?

- That those (A) who have less experience than others (B) should not speak as if they have any experience of a topic to a group ©, who could be even less experienced. If we did this, education would come to a standstill. Neither side has given evidence, as for this topic, it is not really possible. Hence, we need a logical basis for both arguments.

Would you kindly state, in one post, WHAT your stance actually is?

lmao its all around you - it's part and parcel of the building blocks of life. You guys are talking to me as if it don't exist? Have you ever been outside?

[AWACS]

Right I just noticed there are more pages to this topic therefore i have deleted my post

[TMA_1]

good ideas pointy, you seem to be correct. Edric, if you cant stand anything but the insulting of intelligence then you are insecture. I dont insult your intelligence. I say things that make you realize that I am questioning you and am harsh at times. If you cant handle it then go cry to the moderators. I will listen to them. not you though by how you act.

[Edric O]

"Dr." Pointybum, it seems I was mistaken to honestly admit my flaws to you, because you seem to hold them against me as if you are the perfect human being who never acts irrationally. Is that so?

I do have a quick temper, but as I have mentioned (and you have ignored), my anger never affects my judgement.

I have completely dis-regarded your comments about the feminist and shooter threads because I do not participate in them! How can I talk about a discussion that has nothing to do with me?

How many times must I say that the burden of proof is on the person making the claim? I refuse to "prove myself" to the likes of you. If you wish to consider me inferior, then I hope you have proof that I am indeed "inferior". So, for the God-knows-what time, where is your proof?

You've still not offered a thoughtful point that suggests that I am *not* better than others in my age group.

In conclusion, Pointybum, unless you stop evading my questions and actually provide *PROOF* to support your claims, I will be forced to repeat this over and over again:

If you want to consider me less intelligent/inferior to you, you must provide proof or your argument is null and void.

TMA, your whole post is one big non-sequitur.

Since you have no respect for me, I will return the favor. And since you consider yourself as not intelligent enough to have a meaningful conversation, that will undermine any future argument you make.

[Acriku]

Edric, you are claiming he is wrong. Provide proof or your argument is null and void.

[pointybum]

now you are becoming incredibly boring

[TMA_1]

edric. Your full of prunes.lol

[Edric O]

Acriku, he basically claimed I am stupid. Now you tell me: Should I be the one proving I am not stupid, or should he be the one trying to prove I am stupid?

If I claim you're a little green alien from Mars, should YOU be the one to prove otherwise? No, I should be the one to prove my claim.

[Acriku]

Actually if you claimed I was a little green alien I would laugh, but if it was a more serious matter like raping or murdering someone, I would do my best to falsify that claim, e.g. proving my alibi.

It sounds like you are lazy and you don't want to do anything. Step up, prove you are intelligent (which is obvious to everyone but pointy), or just ignore him and go on with your life.

[SurlyPIG]

You notice teens are so idealistic? notice that our emotions rule us? Every teen does have that problem. It is our body overproducing chemicals that while make us grow faster also rack our emotions. We dont have a good standard opinion because our bodies and minds are too mentally unstable. We are so idealistic or pesimistic. we arent ready yet to vote or do anything truely "adult". even if we have the capability to do those things are done in an unstable mind.

Speak for yourself, ok?

If you want to debate the sciences of human development, fine by me. Some people mature at a much more rapid rate than others. Physically and mentally, the rate is determined mostly by your genes, but can be influenced by other factors in your environment. Furthermore, having stereo-types placed on you tends to drive most people to believe the prejudice associated with them and behave in the way they are expected to.

Growth hormones causing irrationality? Ok, lets say you're right. If this is the case, I'm far past my peak. I've always been bigger than almost everyone else my age. By age 12 I was six feet tall, tipping the scales in at around 130. Since then I've grown maybe an inch or two, and gained around 15 pounds. I'm not going to get much bigger. I have, and always will be, an ectomorph. I'm pretty much finished any growing I'll ever do, so I should be, and believe I am, virtually free of any instability caused by GHs. When I was 9-11, I would describe myself as being more volitile, but I am passed that point. Very few others my age are. Like I've been saying all along, reckognize the exceptions.

Frankly I find it appalling that some of you actually consider age as a measure of self-worth.

[SurlyPIG]

Pointybum, you, my friend, seem to be an elitist.

I totally agree with Edric (wow never thought I'd say that).

Edric, I wouldn't even bother trying to argue/debate with elitists. Some people are just too set in their ways for any attempt of reasoning to be worthwhile. (BTW I'm not trying to provoke a response, quite the opposite actually) I was always told that I was not bound by things like my age, appearance, or race. Obviously Pointybum was told the opposite (he even said he was beaten up by his brother for being a smart-alec). The trouble with stereo-typing based on age is once somebody becomes an adult, they completely foreget what it was like being repressed as a teen, so they don't care anymore. It's as if they "graduate" from the forced low-life class into something bigger. It's obviously too late for pointybum, but TMA, your posts to shock me. While some of your statements may be true you seem to be unable to reckognize that there are *ALWAYS* very big exceptions to them and that you CAN be one of those exceptions if you so choose to be.

[TMA_1]

reasoning? you sound like you are arguing in the house of representitives. All you do is spill out your agenda without any evidance behind it. You have it great. You live under your parent's roof. You are dependant. Dont you see that you have no right to communicate to people who are above the level of dependance? If you think you have that right then I cant stop you. Only feel bad because your idealism coulds your judgement.

[SurlyPIG]

My rights are not chosen by those who see themselves as higher than I. I KNOW I have the right to express my opinion, REGARDLESS OF AGE, because it says so right in my country's charter, and on the UN's declaration of human rights. Is that enough evidence for ya? How about a link? There's my proof, now let's see yours. I want to know who and where it says I am worth less because of my age.

Tell me this; how does my living under someone else's roof make my opinions and beliefs less valid? That is totally stupid. It doesnt matter. I could say that my opinion is more valid because of my race and be just as blatantly stupid - or just as equally valid if you think you are correct in this matter.

[TMA_1]

Because you are dependant. Teens couldnt take living on their own. Look now days at kids running around in the streets. We are not capable of making the same choices as adults. As for the UN. Even if america is apart of it doesnt mean I respect it. The UN and other globalist entities are wrong as is. Your opinions so far on this page dont seem that great. sounds like every other teen that thinks they know what they are talking about.

[Edric O]

Your reasoning has a major flaw, TMA. Let us disect it:

1. Teens have no right to an opinion.

2. You are a teen.

Therefore, by your own reasoning, you have no right to have the opinion that teens should not have an opinion.

Furthermore, your last few posts are laughable, TMA. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Not every teen is an identical copy of yourself.

Having said that, I see no point in arguing with a wall, so I will not continue to argue with you. If you disagree with the Declaration of Human Rights, that's your choice. You see, unlike you, I respect your right to have an opinion.

Goodbye TMA.

[Edric O]

Acriku is right. I should provide an "alibi". And I think my in-depth posts and arguments in the many serious debate topics that I participated in are proof enough. They are also the only possible kind of proof: past actions.

So read topics like these:

Spew All About Politics Here

What is your religion?

Why can't humans work together to achieve a common goal?

Loss of Honour

The meaning of life

...and draw your own conclusions.

This topic has been going on for far too long. Pointybum, you are an elitist and a person that refuses logical argument. I have nothing more to say to you. Goodbye.

[Anathema]

I'll have to agree with Edric too. His arguments are sound and he's more inteligent then some adults I know.

[pointybum]

Acriku is right. I should provide an "alibi". And I think my in-depth posts and arguments in the many serious debate topics that I participated in are proof enough. They are also the only possible kind of proof: past actions.

So read topics like these:

Spew All About Politics Here

What is your religion?

Why can't humans work together to achieve a common goal?

Loss of Honour

The meaning of life

...and draw your own conclusions.

This topic has been going on for far too long. Pointybum, you are an elitist and a person that refuses logical argument. I have nothing more to say to you. Goodbye.

Hang on a sec.

You are telling me that I am an elitist? rofl.

I have supported my thoughts/comments several times, as requested, and not once have you done anything but repeat how 'high and mighty' you are against people of your own age group, as much to people older than you.

I have repeatedly giving you a wide berth to support your accusations that I am talking out of context to my reality and yours. Come of it, give me a leaf out of your book of life that demonstrates your superiority. You've still havent given me a plasuable reason to think you are not stupid because of the naff comments you make.

Of course I am going be defensive to everthing I say, but I have said it and offered a track to my comments - you atill havent and I am still waiting! This can either mean that you are cutting your nose off to spite your face (which is likely), or as I can really believe it, your arrogance refuses to see the other side of this big wall that you cast an enormous shadow on.

I challenge you to restart this thread with the topic - 'Why teenagers are smarter than adults', publish your points with a fresh start and then I will contribute passively if and where I see fit, just like a normal debate. I have asked time and time again for your interpretation because I am interested - what I do get is immediate denouncement and some crap about you being in control. Now is that immaturity ruling your head or is it experience with life?

I also challenge you to take this thread (and all the threads related - the stuff you refuse to look at) to the headmaster of your school and challenge those people with your opinions. After all, is it not these people who are tuning you up to the big wide world out there? Is your most influential teacher really going to disagree with anything I have said, quite literally, anything?

Grow up.

[Edric O]

Teenagers are not smarter than adults, they are EQUAL.

And there is a mutual respect between my teachers and me. I can say with certainty that my headmaster would completely disagree with you. He treats everyone as equals.

I only made this post to clarify the above issues. But this will be my final post in this topic. I want nothing to do with you.

Again, goodbye.

[end of topic] - at least for me

[pointybum]

Teenagers are not smarter than adults, they are EQUAL.

And there is a mutual respect between my teachers and me. I can say with certainty that my headmaster would completely disagree with you. He treats everyone as equals.

I only made this post to clarify the above issues. But this will be my final post in this topic. I want nothing to do with you.

Again, goodbye.

[end of topic] - at least for me

Clarified what exactly? You haven