Emperors legions?

[Anathema]

I wonder how large the army of Sardaukar was during Shadam IVs rule. The movie mentioned 50 legions...that's only 500,000 men, wich is ridiculously low to be able to match the combined forces of the Landsraad (Napoleon had 400,000 men when he went to Russia).

So how many did he have?

[Caid Ivik]

Legion is composed by 6000 men, so 50 legions are 300 000.

Imagine 3 thousands of elite fanatic warriors with shields, lasers and other 10193 equipment...

[Anathema]

50 x 6000 is 300,000 ;).

And originally, a legion is 10,000 soldiers plus support. But even 300,000 men (or even 3 million) is still very little to rule over a million planets.

[nampigai]

no one says that the legion in the Dune days has the same manpower as the Roman age, and I agree if he has the universe in such an iron grip he would need more men.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

yeah too litle. I imagined like 50 million soldiers or like that.

Even Hitler had more than 3 million men.

[TMA_1]

it never says in the books that the legions of sardaukar are limited to 50. If you read in the books you will find that sardaukar are placed on hundreds of worlds in large quantities. Even if there were only a few million. Look what they could do in their prime.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

The sardaukar forces are equal to all the forces of the houses of the landsraad.

[IxianMace]

Don't forget that one Sarduakar is considered a match for 10 ordinary Landsraad conscripts. 8)

[Anathema]

But you'd still need a lot more then 50 legions, even if they count for ten as much.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

In the movie they say: "That's our entire reserves as well" when shaddam says that they should have 50 legions of sard on arrakis

[TMA_1]

those are just reserves. they still have to keep the peace of the galaxy. millions are posted all over.

[AlteaDeo]

and it's only Lynch's movie ;)

[Emperor Harkonnen]

yes. but maybe the prequels tell something about it.

I dunno about House Atreides, but the other two I haven't read anything about it.

[Caid Ivik]

Sardaukars weren't only Corrino force. They were used as ultimate punishment against unloyal houses. Order of the Empire was secured by House guards.

[nemafakei]

I think we can safely say that the Emperor of the Universe had more than 50 Roman Legions of troops. A legion will have come to mean something like a million men.

[AlteaDeo]

yeah, just imagine, only with conscription, how big an army could be in an entire universe.... :)

[Mahdi]

Page... 375 or thereabouts of Dune states how many men the Emperor lost in his pogram agains't the fremen, which to him and his forces isn't that many at all out of what was left on dune. I think it was 200,000 the fremen illed, but I'm not sure. It's in thufirs talk with the baron.

[Edric O]

Well, the fremen only won because of Paul's blackmail: Surrender, or the spice will no longer flow! Otherwise I think it's safe to say that the sadaukar would have steamrolled his fremen.

[Anathema]

That's not what he meant. Thufir mentioned the Sardaukar killed 200,000 fremen (I may not recall correctly), but that the Sardaukar lost 5 men per fremen- so that's a million Sardaukar.

Edric, the fremen mainly won because of their religious inner fire- the Sardaukars were over confident. The fremen wiped the floor with most of the Sardaukar stationed in Arakeen.

However, if Paul did not blackmail the guild, the Landsraad houses would have landed their legions on Dune and probably defeated the fremen.

[Emperor Harkonnen]

So then a fremen can take 25 Landsraad conscripts(if I remember right) that's unbelievable

[Caid Ivik]

yeah, just imagine, only with conscription, how big an army could be in an entire universe.... :)

Feudalistic armies are based on mercenaries, not conscripts. Conscripts fight for their country, but for one family?

[Anathema]

The appendix mentioned a Sardaukar could take 10 conscripts, so theoreticly a fremen could take 50 conscrips...wich sounds ridiculous, unless they use sneaky tactics.

Off topic, Duncan Idaho supposedly took down 19 Sardaukars before they killed him. That's a lot.

[Timenn]

Well, he was a swordmaster...

[Anathema]

Yeah, but when the Sardaukar where at their best, they could match a tenth level swordmaster (someone please explain the scale to me). So the Sardaukar did get a little sloppy over time.

[TMA_1]

After losing their secret religion and becoming to soft the sardaukar did lose a lot of their greatness. The rank of Duncan Idaho was a level 13 swordmaster I do believe. Not sure though you guys can correct me.

The fremen were good fighters but the reason why they were so good was a: They knew their environment, You can see when they went to other worlds that it was hard for fremen to fight but they were so frenzied by their religion. b: Their religious convicitions make them almost suicidle to their enemy. Their fierce loyalty can make them do things not normally seen. c: They use ambush and surprise in their warfare. Attacking unknowing enemies.

Without these things they would be just as good as these tepid sardaukar troops.