Emperor the truth

[ken124578]

ken, you are right the Hark need a long range unit *but* it does not mean that it is fair for the Hark to be able to cover almost the *entire* map with toxic poison that kills infantry almost instantlly, and poison which *stays* on the map for about 5 minutes even after the Inkvines are dead. Minos and Kobras don't have toxic, infantry-killing crap that actually stays all over the map for 5 minutes. Because of that, Inkvines are way too overpowered.

1. navaros, the inkvine toxic doesn't stay on the map for 5 minutes, max. 1 minute.

you could also interfeer by NOT making infantry and moving ur infantry to an safe place.

2. inkvine fluid does not instantly kill infantry, the impact causes equal damage as the toxic itself.

3. it has equall splash damage as the kobra and the minotaur, or a bit bigger but its only effective against light armered vehicles and infantry (not sardaukar)

4. an minotaur and an kobra do not have that toxic that hangs around for an while yes, but they have better fire power/re-load time.

5.

[Edric O]

Here's my advice for you Nav: TRY USING SOME OTHER GROUND VEHICLE BESIDES MINOS!! Maybe then you'll notice that Inkvines can't even scratch vehicles.

If the Harks are soooooo good, why aren't you a Hark? Then you could use the Inkvines yourself...

[Navaros]

sorry to Repoman if I am taking this thread OT, if so post on here about that and i'll refrain from doing so once you've said i'm taken it OT.

In the mean time:

ken, the Inkvine is very effective against Sards and *any* type of infantry. And the Inkvine reload rate is *way* faster than the reload rate of the Mino. The fact that the Kobra and Mino have better firepower than the Inkvine does not matter, because properly-used Inkvines can easily kill all of your enemy's Infantry, and without Infantry, (including Feds/Sard etc.) then the Atreides player is quite dead, even with a lot of Minos/Bikes etc.

EdricO,

making bikes against good Hark players isn't gonna help vs. Inkvines. By the time I kill one or two of his Inkvines with bikes, the rest of his

vehicles/Inf will have slaughtered my bikes. Bikes are no solution.

Btw I truly think that a lot of you don't know just how excessively overpowered the Inkvine really is, because to use them well takes skill, and a lot of players who use Inkvines never use them skillfully. Unless you see the Inkvines being used by a very a good player, you will think they are weak and have little use. But the first game you play against a Top 3 player using Inkvines, I gurantee your entire attitude about it will change.

[exatreide]

Nav. I have played EBFD,Empire earth,Starcraft,broodwar(both of which i could defeat you most likely in) RA2,RA,C&C,Tib sun.Civilazation 2,Civilation III. And dozens of other strat games. So dont test me nav. I have been going nice on you. I havnt joined the albamontern to eat your liver and put your head on a stick. I am one of your few qazi allies. Dont push me.

[Repoman]

Nav you have no idea man.

One thing is that i play qm way to much.

The harvester problems are livable man wake up to yourself. Extremely rarely will it cause problems so seriously stop whining about it.

The formation move works quite well it is just neccessary to space out your units a little more than what you do. Understand the concept of a bottleneck and you will understand how to negate its problems a little better.

Now look at the irkvine in a different way and you will see that they are not all that effective. Sometimes taking a few losses in a game is not all that bad when it is economically advantagous in the time vs damage equation. The micromanagement time involved in killing a few infantry with the irkvine is very high. The actual money damage that they cause is insignificant. Now a smart atriedies player will have two barracks. The infantry that pour out of two barracks can easily fill up the ranks of a few of their dead mates.

Now anyone who recommends using bikes against irkvine is a newbie, as machine guns are ineffective against armour. Irkvines cannot hit moving targets full stop!. 2 easy ways to take the irkvine are with fedyakin and sards. 2 feds on guard predicting the irkvines attack are a low time, 2:1 damage ratio. A great equation. 500$ for 2 fed to kill a 1000 irkvine and you still have the fed. Sards are almost as good at taking them out as well. Both stategies require little time to complete the mission.

You want to whine about hark hassle a unit that has way to much power against one house : ordos. If ordos fails in a frontal assualt then it is pretty much impossible to stop a gunship rush. Atriedies can carve up the gunship rush with a few drones flying along side the gunship rush. Ordos have almost no way of stopping it. The aa troopers are too slow, the apc doesn't do enough damage and they require 2 aa bombs to take one gunship.

Anyway i've had enough of talking about it time to go kill a few irkvines ;D

At the end of the day it's all a little bit of fun 8)

[Navaros]

Repoman. why don't you post your WOL nick on here so we all can see just how you fare against the other QM players.

Inkvines are *only* easy to kill *if* the enemy lets you *access* the Inkvines.

The bottom line is, good Hark players will *not* let you access Inkvines with any type of Infantry, including Feds, Sards, or Sard Elites. If you move your Minos/Inf forward into the Inkvines, your units often will start stumbling all over themselves, without firing, and the Hark player will have caught you in exactly the trap he was hoping for; from that point, you are dead. If you do not understand this, it is because you have never played a good Hark player in QM.

It *is* hard to micro Inkvines well, yes, but once you see it done then you'll be changing your tune. Keep playing Emperor in QM and one day, eventually, you'll come around once you have suffered by the mighty Inkvine.

I agree with you that Ordos need a far better AA or at least an equivalent unit to the Hark Gunship. That's totally unfair and if I was an Ordos player I'd be very mad about that for all eternity. I used Ordos as a newbie and right then I knew the AA of Ordos just doesn't cut it. One of the reasons I stick with Atreides is because they have the best air defense by far. I almost never lose to any sort of air attack unless the enemy has already won the game with ground units. If Ordos had either of those things

(an air drone or gunship-like unit), Ordos might end up being the best House, but because they do not, Hark is the best House.

[Repoman]

My WOL nick is mroptus. I agree that hark is the best house but one of the houses has to be the stongests, it's inevitable. The point i was trying to make is that emperor has gotten closer to perfect than any other rts game by far excluding rts's that have only slightly different races.

When the irkvines are taking out your kinjal build 3 barracks so that you constantly have more replacing the dead. Even a couple of irks cannot keep up with 3 barracks.

[DjCiD]

Repoman. why don't you post your WOL nick on here so we all can see just how you fare against the other QM players.

what about you mr Cyrenius or how ever its spelled... i dont see you posting your nick anywhere on the site ::) how do you expect ppl to fin dyou online... what are you hiding? huh? if it wasnt for a few ppl knowing your nick and bringing it up once in a blue moon ppl wouldnt know who you are online... im really begin to wonder what your trying to hide...

[ethan]

sorry to Repoman if I am taking this thread OT, if so post on here about that and i'll refrain from doing so once you've said i'm taken it OT.

In the mean time:

ken, the Inkvine is very effective against Sards and *any* type of infantry. And the Inkvine reload rate is *way* faster than the reload rate of the Mino. The fact that the Kobra and Mino have better firepower than the Inkvine does not matter, because properly-used Inkvines can easily kill all of your enemy's Infantry, and without Infantry, (including Feds/Sard etc.) then the Atreides player is quite dead, even with a lot of Minos/Bikes etc.

EdricO,

making bikes against good Hark players isn't gonna help vs. Inkvines. By the time I kill one or two of his Inkvines with bikes, the rest of his

vehicles/Inf will have slaughtered my bikes. Bikes are no solution.

Btw I truly think that a lot of you don't know just how excessively overpowered the Inkvine really is, because to use them well takes skill, and a lot of players who use Inkvines never use them skillfully. Unless you see the Inkvines being used by a very a good player, you will think they are weak and have little use. But the first game you play against a Top 3 player using Inkvines, I gurantee your entire attitude about it will change.

but, 1 mongoose is if they arent supported, (ie the WW mentally retarded AI)....

[Taqwa11]

Hark the best house? Hmmmm. I'm thinking very hard, and I can't remember Hark dominating the top ten. As a matter of fact, although I may be forgetful, when was the last time Hark won the overall title? Hark is good, yes, and I have to agree with Nav on one point (wtf, that's more than once), and that is that the Inkvine is a totally awesome weapon when used by a master. I've seen Acelethal micro his Inkvines with Hark, and I can't beat that as Atreides. There are other great Hark players too. However, it's NOT the best house. It could be with a small change here or there, such as making the flame tank or the missile tank more heavily armored or just slightly increasing the Devastator's range or splash damage (Sard Elites or Fedaykin eat up Devs like shrimp). IMHO, the most difficult house to master is Atreides, at least on QM settings, and I totally respect the best Atreides players for doing so. Lately they've been dominating the ladder with Atreides. Of course, one could argue that the best Ordos players don't play anymore, and that a lot of ex-Ordos masters have now quit playing as Ordos and have now mastered Atreides. I ramble too much like some damned know-it-all. Taq out.

[Repoman]

That is what i love about this game so much. The houses are so evenly matched yet there units are so different. Damn i love emperor. I wish that ww allowed a spectator mode for watching the best of the best playing. Westwood don't even know they have made the best game of all time. Osama if you are going to bomb america(which i hope they don't start at the ww building plz.)