Politician shot down

[gryphon]

Just heard today that they found 2 more possible targets and a detailed map of the home of Pim Fortuyn in the car of the suspect.

[ and it's still my opinion that Pim Fortuyn isn't the same as any other "right wing" politician that are rising in a lot of other European counrties. ]

Has any one seen the funeral today ? That where a lot of people, some even verry fanatical.

[TMA_1]

THe military has to do with this. Nations power is from its military. The U.N. wouldnt be as strong without the U.S. We are an immoral people with many problems. That doesnt mean that we arent as powerful. I dont care about holland and people die. even politicians. My comments are as meaningless as this thread that casts pity on a politician that I never even heard about without the media. I really dont care about other nations. Now days its looked at almost as evil to think so. It just doesnt matter to me though.

[gryphon]

That's your opinion, and as sutch I'll respect that. But a lot of Americans have another view on thing. And to say you don't care about other nations could be a bit premature. What about the oil import from the Arabics, and the hardware you recieve from Asian countries. Not to mention the Russian trade.

Thoughout history many nations have made the mistake that a big army is the only thing that matters. Look at the Spanish Armada, it came to The Netherlands but was defeated by some vishermen. The English wern't safe also, we sailed up the Themes and sunk their entire fleet. Then what about the 80 years war, that Spanish guy Alfa thought to conquer our country, guess again, just some farmers ;D

You don't care about other nations ? Then why has the USoA requested the use of our AWACS planes to gard the USoA the last months ? Same with the Canadian forces and the British advisors. You may not care about other countries, but your country seems to care about other countries. Mayby you should consider moving to another . . .. . .

[Nyarlathotep]

Thoughout history many nations have made the mistake that a big army is the only thing that matters. Look at the Spanish Armada, it came to The Netherlands but was defeated by some vishermen. The English wern't safe also, we sailed up the Themes and sunk their entire fleet. Then what about the 80 years war, that Spanish guy Alfa thought to conquer our country, guess again, just some farmers ;D

I just love some good history lesson ;D

That aside, this thread was started because a politician was shotdown in Holland. What makes it special is the fact that we never thought it would happen in Holland.

I respect everyones opinion, but the way things are going now, they are missing the point of this thread..

This thread has nothing to do with any army, any counrty (apart from Holland), ect. It has to do with the fact that a politician got shot for what he believed in.. THAT'S sickening sad..

[nemafakei]

Furthermore, if the US were not to care at all about other countries, its trade, on which it relies heavily, would plummet. This would cause a major economic problems for the whole world. Is it right that one country's arrogance should cause everyone in other parts of the world more poverty?

[Terror]

agreed... the US only care about the greatness of their own country. They only defend countries that are of economical importance to them.. they don't do it because the people who live there are low on food or something.

and bush is an asshole.... he and Poetin (russian president) made an agreement that they would destroy many of their nuclear weapons. but after a couple of days bush aleady cancels it because he says that he might wanna use it vs. some terrorists... what the fuck is his problem.... I think 2000 nuclear boms are also enough to destroy this entire world... bush is a DICK!! Poetin holds his word though (huraay Poetin) and destroys most of their nuclear weapons.

And indeed gryphon. Even if a mighty country like the US would occuppy countries with many soldiers their asses would be kicked... look at what happened in vietnam. (and they still hate it that they lost) and yups... the 80 years war was indeed a point why I am a bit proud at the netherlands.... they kicked those spanish arses... cuz the spanish build huge ships and thought that their large armada would kick our asses.. but those ships were so unwieldly that they couldn't hit our fishing boats and those huge ships went down like rocks :-). and on land we kicked the spanish asses with water. yups... don't fight us on land as we are the masters of water :D we'll drown everyone who tries :-)

[gryphon]

Evry country is good on his own ground, with it's own experians and resources. [ I assume ]

For those of you who have seen parts of the funeral on the telly, you could see that the ministers where protected by a special police force. The crouwd controle wasn't mutch. about 20 rows of people for let's say 70 - 100 meters, and just 20 police officers on the entire row. That whouldn't be considerd in a lot of other countries. But here, we don't meed more.

[exatreide]

I havnt seen anything on the news about it. Oh and you farmers sure did well against the germans....... ;)

[Caid Ivik]

UN should have it's own army, independent on USA, Russia or NATO. It should be composed from mercenaries payed by special UN military fund. This will be a first step to global unity.

[Timenn]

Like gryphon said, you are talking about armies while this is about the security of politicians in the world. And the situation in NL...

[gryphon]

It was Nyarlathotep who mentioned that. I only stated that we should get personal if I recal correct. ;)

[ I'm to lasy to look at page 1 for what I've said ;D ]

But you are both right. It's about the fact that a persone did use violense as a way out instead of words. And especially in The Netherlands that is un imaginable. Usually we talk to mutch, now it's the other way around. And I prefer the way it has been.

As I'm typing this there is a interview on Canvas [ a Belgium channel ] with Pim Fortuyn recorded about a week ago. In it he explains his ideas and the difference between him and other " European right wing politicians".

[Terror]

Timenn and the other moderators.... i have got a question. Why can't a topic change? I mean. if a topic changes in nonsence i understand that you say that we've got to stay on topic. But this is just a change in discussion. Can't you just let us go and change the topic cuz we've already discussed enough about the murder of the politician? I mean no offence

[nampigai]

I just saw the news that they believe that there's three persons involved in the killing of Pim?

[Nyarlathotep]

Terror, there's no problem in changing the discussion !

I just think that it changed from a politician who got shot down to armies for no reason.

The way the armies got involved had nothing to do with the fact a politician got shot and a lot of (Dutch) people are upset..

my 2cnts anyway

[gryphon]

Yea, that's one of the roumors I've heard to. But I don't know i it's true. There hasn't been a press release of the justice department. According to me it's still a speculation. [ but I can be wrong ofcourse ]

There are also roumors about a British unit being on the scene without any knows reason, a liquidation orderd by our current government or the Military, a ethnical group that hired a Dutch assasin to liquidate Pim Fortuyn so they won't get the blame.

Pick your favourite ;D

All other politicians have round the clock protection at the moment.

I agree on that topic thing. A topic can change, but in this case it was without a "valid" reason. It just suddenly shifted without any refferance between the two.

[TMA_1]

you guys.lol went over your head. zhoom

[gryphon]

you guys.lol went over your head. zhoom

Or it was your limited insight that makes a non existing conneting between certain theories so you can have some insight in a big consept that would else be way beyond your grasp. ::)

Anyway, can we quit this ?

[Caid Ivik]

This assassination showed only one thing: you Dutch have too liberal politics. In Slovakia hasn't been killed no politician since the fall of communism. Dutch legalized drugs, euthanasy etc. It's a paradise for mafians now, so one isolationist has been killed now. Nederland should change its politics, because it's heading to anarchy.

[Timenn]

I don't know anyone who get in trouble with mafia, even though I live near the capitol. And there are here not big problems with corruption. And what do you prefer? That you can use soft-drugs, or that you can buy a gun at each corner of the street?

And we are far from anarchy. There are so many rules here, and so many people just follow them, withouth really realising them.

Like the 'nota der ruimtelijke ordening', there stands where there can be build and where not (strict planning, becuase we have not much space). That's something other countries are not used too...

And it was not an assasin, there is no evidence for that...

I don't know where you get this from, but I think you haven't a clear vision on Netherlands

[Marcel71]

"In Slovakia hasn't been killed no politician since the fall of communism. "

In Slovakia Politicians kill civilians...

[Sardauker-Kirov]

Almost every country does that. Esp America, if you leaked information or did some other violation. You can expect Black ops on your roof with Usp's.

[gryphon]

"In Slovakia hasn't been killed no politician since the fall of communism. Dutch legalized drugs, euthanasy etc. It's a paradise for mafians now"

The first part is exactly the problem. No politician has been killed here to, and we didn't even have the "Fall of communism" here. This is the first, as we tend to call it "American style ourbreak" we have here. That's what the fuss is about. Not that these things are commen here.

A paradise for mafia ? Have you ever been to The Netherlands ?

Our law seems to be verry atractieve to cmpany's, that's why a lot of them have there "district bureau" near Amsterdam and our Airport "Schiphol".

even Starbick's has moved his European headquarters from the UK to Amsterdam, quess why ? Because the Dutch culture and country where a better fit to the company and it's policy then the UK.

And yes, softdrugs are leagal here.. . . so ? Does that state we are a "bad" country ?

I forgot to post what I wanted to post in the first place :)

The representatives of Pim Fortuyn have accused 3 politicians, 3 journalists, 1 newsredaction and a couple of internet sites of spreading hate and propeganda about him. Pim tolled that in case something happend to him [ he recieved some life threads ] they had to ecplore this option and take the nessesary actions.

[exatreide]

Yes the netherlands is a nice peaceful place. Atleast you dont have all the gang related violence you get with drug dealers and such.

[Anathema]

Yep. Keep in mind that no politician has been killed because of his vieuws in the Netherlands before.

Btw the assasin was a vegetarian, one who doesn't use leather either or eat eggs or milk. Fortuyn stated he would cancel the ban on breeding of minks for furcoats. He also said that environmentalists should quit whining. Sounds like a motive for murder for such a  person.

[TMA_1]

It went over your head because I am looking at the view of nations. killings of politicians are normal. and what I was getting at is the fact that people in america are not the greatest in the world. That doesnt mean though that somehow holland is a paradise. It is a small country that minorly contributes to the world. dont argue its the truth. you can quote that one and argue with me if you want. What it comes down to for a great nation is its military strengh. A great nation isnt always a good nation. nazi germany was a great nation in a sense that its military was very very strong. It was far from good though. More satanic actually. millions of jews, catholics, homosexuals, slavs and others were killed for their "great plans" of a white dominated world. sick stuff.