Arab protests

[Andrew]

So apparently lots of Islamic countries are having big protests. Egypt has lost most of the internet tonight.

Here is a disturbing video showing a protestor in the streets being sniper(?) killed. Video is possible reason why internet is down, and supposed to be big protests tomorrow.

http://video.ap.org/?f=None&pid=oT7qj_wiVHTbYae3scwok4_irYjJ2R8Z

Discuss.

Instead of going crazy like they did over danish cartoon protests, they are finally protesting about more freedom and wanting better government?

[Edric O]

These are not "Islamic" protests. They are Arab protests. Religion has nothing to do with it. People are taking to the streets to demand jobs, food, and the fall of US-backed dictators across the Arab world.

[Caid Ivik]

Algerie, Tunis, Egypt or Yemen are all countries led by quite impervious state-parties, while police, media and military are all dedicated to preserve the regimes. This really has nothing with Islam as a religion. Perhaps (in case of Egypt) the cause were more likely Christians, who first protested against inability of state to protect them. Government, deciding the cause was too dire to be simply censored, allowed them a rally, but lost the grip after the events in Tunis. The cause is more likely economical - the regimes are too corrupt and unreliable for foreign investors, so the masses of educated young people have no jobs; on the other hand, they can't emigrate so easily, because of dubious image of their countries in more developed ones.

I guess there's no need to explain the protests against Danish cartoons were not more than an inscenation.

They may not be actually aiming for freedom, but generally, masses of unemployed young people are a volatile sort. Some went to mountain rebels, others to Muslim Brotherhood, and some tried the protest way; it worked in Tunisia quite lot, so the others are inspired.

[ErasOmnius]

I am not sure they are even Arab protests. They are cries for economic justice.

Egypt, Bolivia, Tunisia, Kyrgyzstan, etc.

People see the money rolling in, but their lives have not changed at all. When we see these kinds of protests in the Gulf oil states, especially Saudi Arabia, then the <blank> will really hit the fan.

[Andrew]

Changed thread title. Guess we'll have to wait 6-9 hours before more news comes out of there (I assume they are sleeping)?

[Caid Ivik]

Jordan joins the protests - http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/01/2011128125157509196.html

These protests are getting messy, in Cairo should be tanks rolling, but it looks like a good start of the year.

[Andrew]

If what I am reading is correct, the military is not supporting police, and some government buildings are being looted and burned.

pics

some videos

al jazeera English probably has best coverage. watch live feed on their website.

[Edric O]

Remember when the United States was talking about bringing freedom and democracy to the Middle East? Now while the people have taken matters into their own hands and are out on the streets risking their lives to bring down Hosni Mubarak, the US government is suddenly all concerned about "stability" and "restraint". Oh, and they continue to give Mubarak billions of dollars.

"This sort of thing is only supposed to happen to brutal dictators we don't like, dammit!"

[Caid Ivik]

Another example of rhetorics contradicting acts Still, when Putin or Ahmadinejad say nothing it's quite expectable, but from Obama one would expect some demagogy in this moment.

[athanasios]

The world is burning but who will benefit? People are revolting for more freedom but will they get it? Is this a true uprise or motivated for other purposes? Maybe to be used as an excuse by the World Dictatorship to speed up the enslavement of mankind with a new Law and Order? Brothers and Comrades stay alert!

[Andrew]

The USA gives Egypt $1 billion a year in military funding so they leave Israel alone. So the tear gas and probably guns/bullets are funded/given by USA. So in part USA is responsible for killing Egyptians.

Egyptian Riot Police Using Tear Gas “Made In The U.S.A.”

Joe Biden is stupid as always saying the egypt president is not a dictator, yet wikileaks cables say that usa thinks he is.

Maybe the admin is not supporting protestors that much because they have puppet government in power, unlike when Iran was having problems they would have liked it to succeed.

[athanasios]

In one way or the other one is sure: USA will make profit. No, that stuff is not a free gift from uncle Sam. When the Capitalists give 1 they demand 10 in exchange.

[Andrew]

In case people didn't know, this street vendor who set himself on fire is what started all the protests.

I didn't realize the president of Egypt has been in power for 30 years. Nice to see USA supporting a dictator.

Something big happening today. Meeting at Tahrir square. Jets, helicopters, tanks moving in.

[ErasOmnius]

In case people didn't know, this street vendor who set himself on fire is what started all the protests.

I didn't realize the president of Egypt has been in power for 30 years. Nice to see USA supporting a dictator.

Something big happening today. Meeting at Tahrir square. Jets, helicopters, tanks moving in.

I'm not crazy about the USA, either. It would be better to say the West, because that includes Canada, Greece, Scotland, and the UK.

[athanasios]

http://athens.indymedia.org/local/webcast/uploads/egyptian_military_against_police.flv

Officials and other capitalists abandoning Egypt, Egyptian army divided, bedouins taking control of cities and ready to attack, dictatorship releasing prisoners who supported it and were imprisoned by the army, hundreds dead and doctors forced to hide the number of casualties...

All Arab world is on fire: Yemen, Syria... AND not only: China censors the internet too!

WORLD REVOLT?

[ErasOmnius]

Problems all over the globe where people want a 'piece of the pie'. No protests in China, however.

[jihadvsdune]

yeah it was time for a revolution i hope they do it in the whole world so we be a normal world.

this world is just too hard too live in money and power they all want it dont give it.

[athanasios]

Seems that Saudi Arabia and Kuwait may be next.

This is interesting:

Fall of Saudi Arabia to End Dollar Reserve System?

...Could it be that the power elite itself is inciting these disturbances?...

...We've already reported suspicions that the Tunisia unrest was likely aided by CIA;...

...the West is hoping to install a variety of "democratic" regimes – many of them perhaps "national unity governments," with Islamic overtones. These overthrows might accomplish numerous purposes, including the furtherance of elite globalism...

...Way back on January 12, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton finished a four-nation tour of the Middle East and then gave a "rousing speech" in Doha. The New York Post reported she told Arab leaders that they "can expect to face growing unrest, extremism and even rebellion if they fail to quickly address depleting oil and water reserves and to enact real economic and political reform."...

...Hillary Clinton: "We support the universal rights of the Egyptian people including the right to expression ...

And definitely stay away from gold and silver, on that those guys are in err. Am I right ErasOmnius? (Not that I have the cash to buy any though. ;-) LOL )

Israel 'fears' post-Mubarak era

...At a news conference alongside Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, on Monday in Jerusalem, Netanyahu said Egypt could wind up with a radical Islamic regime as in Iran...

...Earlier, an Israeli newspaper had reported that Israel has called on the United States and Europe to curb their criticism of President Hosni Mubarak "in a bid to preserve stability in Egypt" and the wider Middle East.

The Israeli daily Haaretz reported that the foreign ministry, in an urgent special cable, instructed its ambassadors to key countries, to "stress ... the importance of Egypt's stability".

Seems Egyptian protesters are preparing to break Gaza blockade.

[athanasios]

Is it a World Revolution? Are the World Dictators trying to suppress what is getting out of control?

Greek 71st Airborne Brigade to do exercise in suppressing demonstrating/revolted crowd.

Source: 'DIKTΥO SPARTAKOS', the network of the conscripts

DISOBEY! DISOBEY! DISOBEY!

You have both the option and the right to do so. And if you are a Christian it is a COMMAND!

Do not let the World Dictators turn you against your own brother, your sister, your father and your mother. If you disobey the COMMAND soon you will face the same fate with them!

[ErasOmnius]

There can be no Middle East Confederation without a 'democracy' in each of the nations of the Middle East. Democracy is pretty much a transitional government anyway.

[Andrew]

The peaceful protests have turned violent. Saw a video of a guy on a camel get taken down by mob of people.

At least they got internet back.

Egyptian protesters clash in Tahrir Square

Mubarak supporters came in on horses/camel and attacked protestors.

The police disappeared last couple days, and now all of a sudden pro mubarak supporters come out and attack protesters? hmm.

[ErasOmnius]

Too bad Egypt doesn't buy the amount of Treasury bonds from The West that China does. Then Mubarak would have gotten a free pass on democratic reforms.

China does whatever it wants to its' people, and Tibet; and American is still smilin' Uncle Sam.

[Wolf]

I love how idiotically anti-American you all are. Surely, if the U.S. got involved to support the protesters by any means, you'd all be crying foul and discussing just what secret plot the U.S. has up its sleeves--or what puppet regime we were installing a la Iraq. Since the U.S. has chosen to stay removed from the conflict and allow the Egyptian people to choose their own future (as I'm sure all of you would agree is the right answer), you instead bash them for "supporting the regime"--not now, since Obama's made it clear that he wants democracy in Egypt now, but over the course of the last 30 years. Listen very carefully: if you make this argument, unless you are also willing to make the argument that the United States should have forced Mubarak out of power when he assumed power roughly 30 years ago then you need to shut the hell up. You look too stupid if you don't. Diplomacy is a lot more complicated than that. Anti-Americanism is your bias--one that you hold personally--and these protests have very little, if anything to do with the United States beyond the personal feelings of some of the people rioting. You know how many countries purchase tear gas or firearms from the United States? I bet half of them--and the other half buy from Canada, the EU, Russia, etc. Just because a country sells arms to people doesn't mean it supports their policies.

Still disagree with me? You're wrong--I mean, objectively, and nothing you say can change that. If that upsets you, tough--for you, that is, not for me. I actually really dislike all of you and you being upset makes me very happy.

[athanasios]

Brother remove the rafter from your eye...

Dozens dead, many hundreds injured. Dictator censors (blocks) Al Jazeera. TV stations Censored and show nothing. Thousands of people on the streets, vehicles on fire. Dictator releases prisoners to support him and fight protesters.

Watch live:

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

[ErasOmnius]

I love how idiotically anti-American you all are. Surely, if the U.S. got involved to support the protesters by any means, you'd all be crying foul and discussing just what secret plot the U.S. has up its sleeves--or what puppet regime we were installing a la Iraq. Since the U.S. has chosen to stay removed from the conflict and allow the Egyptian people to choose their own future (as I'm sure all of you would agree is the right answer), you instead bash them for "supporting the regime"--not now, since Obama's made it clear that he wants democracy in Egypt now, but over the course of the last 30 years. Listen very carefully: if you make this argument, unless you are also willing to make the argument that the United States should have forced Mubarak out of power when he assumed power roughly 30 years ago then you need to shut the hell up. You look too stupid if you don't. Diplomacy is a lot more complicated than that. Anti-Americanism is your bias--one that you hold personally--and these protests have very little, if anything to do with the United States beyond the personal feelings of some of the people rioting. You know how many countries purchase tear gas or firearms from the United States? I bet half of them--and the other half buy from Canada, the EU, Russia, etc. Just because a country sells arms to people doesn't mean it supports their policies.

Still disagree with me? You're wrong--I mean, objectively, and nothing you say can change that. If that upsets you, tough--for you, that is, not for me. I actually really dislike all of you and you being upset makes me very happy.

Welcome back Wolf. Good to hear from you.

My whole point is that I think America should refrain from getting involved. But when a nation like ours uses up a huge amount of the world's resources, I suppose that the US has got to get involved. Looks like Obama, and everyone other POTUS else before him, is supporting the 'apparent winner'. Since it might be a few more days before we know who that is, I'm sure Uncle Sam and The West will play both sides of the fence.

But most importantly, hopefully none of our young men or women will have to go over there to freeze in the mountains or desert (as in Afghanistan or Iraq), and get maimed or killed. Or sit on an aircraft carrier for 2 years practicing drills endlessly in the eastern Meditteranean, because there really are no jobs in the states.

And Wolf, you don't dislike me because of this issue. People rarely do, unless there are of the 'military type', and 'served' for years in a foreign land. It's the 'other moral issues' that bother you.