Creating a board game based on RTS games.

[X3M]

Fun things do happen!

 

If I try to make a GR (36 times the picture above), my pc crashes. :D

Even though it would only be around 5 Mb big as a PNG file. In paint it is still 24 bit baby!.

Anyway, that would mean that it would become a file with size 442 Mb.

Hmmm, my RAM is 1 gig, how come it can't handle 442 Mb?

But yeah, my pc crashed on a paint picture. :)

 

---

 

In other news. I tried some weird stuff again with my formula's.

 

So 1 simple questions (that probably will not be answered -.- )

 

Ok, here it goes:

- The unit that I am talking about is a very strong armored tank (mammoth or devastator kind of armor).

- With a very long ranged weapon (sniper, SSM-Launcher, V2/V3-Launcher kind of range, maybe further).

- It is slow (same speed as normal infantry).

 

- The weapon is.....

a rifle (the one from the rifle infantry, not the one from trikes or humm-vee's or whatever)

 

Would you use it?

Is it useful? How?

[Nyerguds]

So... why not save the board in 8 bit? Or heck, 16 colours? Just use Gimp instead of paint.

[X3M]

I mean, somehow paint works in 24 bit. While your picture is saved as PNG.

I checked my RAM while expanding the size. Even though it was empty.

 

Same goes for Excel too. If you have a field of the maximum. Not much happens. But give them all a colour by selecting all fields (not the simple way, but the drag way). And your file suddenly shoots up in needed memory.

 

---

 

Anyway, I am still curious about the unit.

Would you use it?

 

The main problem is, when an unit receives a lot of range. No matter how weak the weapon. The costs for the armor is sky-high rocketing. This is the only situation that I think of my calculation as flawed. After all, what use is range alone, to your armor? You need to think of a combination of range with the damage, until it is of use.

 

I think I was to happy with my cost calculation in the past, since it gave so good round numbers.

 

---

 

I could post here the 16 unit combinations:

Where you have durability low or high.

Weapon strength is low or high.

Speed is slow or fast.

Range is short or long.

 

There are 3 out of 16 units that I personally never would use. It's those units that have high durability with low weapon strength. And speed or range is maxed out, or both are maxed out. They are only of use if you want to annoy the enemy and keep them busy. Or they get the job done in a slightly cheaper way then the high weapon strength units. I do know of situations that require these units.

 

The one that has short range and slow speed can act as a meat type of unit and is ok. The costs for the last one is also acceptable. However, the other 3 are way to expensive compared to all other units. You simply wouldn't buy them?

[Nyerguds]

I mean, somehow paint works in 24 bit. While your picture is saved as PNG.

I checked my RAM while expanding the size. Even though it was empty.

Yes. Which is why you should use something else :P

[X3M]

It seems I have not enough variables to play with.

 

 

I choose the second ehm, "option".

 

Since I (re)discovered that Range has notching to do with Armor.

Previously thoughts:

Unit durability increases weapon effectiveness (Damage over time) and thus Range effectiveness.

Range amplifies Damage and thus increases unit durability.

New statements (or very old ones):

Unit durability, only affects Range indirectly by increasing weapon effectiveness (Damage over time).

Range, only affects unit durability indirectly by amplifying Damage.

Yes, the fact that I had changed my thoughts somewhere in the past is due to the hit and run units. Speed and Range work together. We did not have that in the text based version of the game.

 

I am trying to rewrite the formula. I do have found 1 with the basis of a very old formula. Splitting the formula in 2 factors instead of 1 that I had for my board game. However, the prices that come out of the new calculations are to be compared with those of Warcraft 3.

 

210, 290, 575 instead of 200, 300, 600.

O well, at least I can add multiple weapons on an unit without having trouble calculating the effects on Armor for each.

 

So how come I had neat prices for my units when I was still playing with tibed? And I was not designing for a board game where I only have 4 variables? I had more variables to change in the past:

- Cool-down

Not board game material unless I add 1 to 3 counters. And I already have way to many counters.

- First shot advantage

It would change support units into cheaper or more powerful units. But you only have this variable if you have the Cool-down as well.

- Health

I currently use 6 as a basis for all the units. however, I could change this for the better. Problem 1 is, the basic Armor cost count would need a change. Problem 2 is, the balance changes again due to small versus big. Then I might as well discard the whole system.

- Sight

To H#!! with this one. It has almost no use in my opinion. Only thing would be if sight is more or less than Range. It works more with Speed.

- Splash

All part of the weapon system.

 

The forgotten variable:

Well, there are actually 5 variables that I can play with instead of 4 (A, MD, S, R) at this moment. Size is the 5th. However, changing 210 and 290 into 200 and 300 with size corrections is not going to happen. The new sizes would be 231,525 and 270,989. Players can't cope with this. Right?

 

So, what now? If I where not to change the formula I encounter several problems:

- 3 out of 16 basic designs are "flawed". Meaning, you can have them. But you pay 50% to much on average compared to other units. Simply due to the calculations.

- Further more, players don't want to use that kind of units. Weak weapon, strong Armor, slow Speed and huge Range. Well, I would, but not for that price.

- Third, I now have noticed that this is why I had so much trouble adding different ranged weaponry to one unit. After all, crushing is 0 range while a Sniper is long range. Combining the 2 would result in changing a rule on part of the Armor. With splitting the factor into 2 factors, this problem is long gone.

 

Maybe I should even remove the Speed addition to the weapon costs. Hit and run units only are exponential effective (2 directions) in open fields.

And to counter the exponential effect, I could use the SUM formula to Speed and Range. Meaning, 1 Speed costs 1, 2 Speed costs 3, 3 Speed costs 6 etc. But that would only make things more complicated. And my game is based on linear warfare.

If I where to remove Speed and Range, and simply setting non-movable / movable rules. Would mean that a lot of strategy and tactics are lost.

[X3M]

I wonder how people feel about certainty in a game.

 

The situation would be that each player has to hit the other player 6 times for a kill.

If a player has a choice of 1 hit each round that is certain,

or 2 hits with each a 50% chance.

 

What would a player choose?

Should a player have a choice in this?

6 rounds for ending the opponent sounds safe, but is it worthwhile?

3 lucky rounds means a win for the other choice, but there is a risk on infinite long battles...

 

And perhaps it is a "dead" question. But how do you feel about this?

 

---

 

All I know is that the Rocket Launcher from Dune 2 has this kind of gamble. If you hit, the other tank is almost dead. If you miss, your almost dead.

I found myself hitting, and then running away. Which makes the game more dynamic. In games like Warcraft2 you don't see this. Even C&C didn't have this. So Dune 2 had a dynamic part that only returned in Starcraft.

 

I intend to add this to my game. Even though I am forced, I am glad I have found a way to implement it.

My co-worker doesn't like the idea. But then again, he forgets I am the only one playing it.

[X3M]

Well, I have a solution to my problems. Took me long enough.

The weapon system is now completely separate from the health system in the formula. This removes more problems than I thought.

 

I have also introduced accuracy and agility.

Basic health went down from 6 to 3.

Suicide units become less useful, but still chase of others.

Killing goes twice as fast, and that means gaining twice as fast experience.

Experience is now worth twice as much, so in the total picture, you can double up 4 times faster.

Uber units after gaining a lot of experience, might still have a chance on missing targets. This depends on the accuracy and agility.

Designing units is more complicated now, since I have more statistics to work with.

Some units for my first box have changed... a lot.

 

I am back at where I ended with my progress.

Posted 27 July 2013 - 08:14 PM

Yaay!

[X3M]

Well, it has been some time since I posted about my board game.

I am making a lot of progress lately since I have some play testers.

I keep the map simple, simple colours and simple usability. The map is roughly 1 by 1 metre large.

 

There are 2 maps they like to play:

 

Is for 2 players, but a third one wanted to join. So we are now playing this one:

 

This second map has less cramped situations. And it allows 3 players.

However, a maximum of 6 is the goal.

So I still need to think things through.

 

As you can see, I have had some Dune influence. I still portrait the resource fields in orange (sand too).

The red-brown are mountains.

But players can build and move on sand, grass and forests.

Water is of course blue.

Purple (sand or grass) are the starting locations of the players.

 

Movement is only allowed 100% on sand and grass.

50% on forests.

0% on mountains and water.

 

The dots in each hexagon are used to determine the hit chance of the projectiles.

mountains block 100%

forests block 50%

If 2 dots are connected while crossing a side of a mountain or forest region. Then the effects are halved.

mountains block 50%

forests block 25%

This is determined by first rolling the chance for if the region is going to have effect or not.

If 2 regions have influence on the line, then each is decided individually.

 

The game has become a true dice feast. Where you need to roll dice when there are:

-enemy movements

-terrain effects (1 or 2 rolls for each terrain)

-accuracy of projectiles

-agility/durability against projectiles

-XP spend on projectiles

 

This is the current list of units and defences that we play with.

 

The other structure list is still a simple piece of paper. And we still need to work out how the main structure is going to be.

This current list of units and defences is going to get an update soon. XP for damage will be altered.

And if someone is interested. I will post a list of the meaning of each statistic and how they work.

 

Guess how I am calling this game :D.

[THE AQIB]

I tried to recreate a board game rts myself..

Fully based on dune..

But somehow I need to decrease the number of cards used..

especially spice cards..

I like your ideas and hence I began..

I haven't posted anything about it for now..

I have done 2p game but 3p 4p etc are still not possible..

How did you do this??

[X3M]

Great to see that there is a response. :)

 

I can't tell you how to do it. It is your game. So you just do it. And if some people tag along in the progress. You could get responses from them.

 

A lot of trials and errors.

Is what took me.

And a little bit of advice from BGDF.

Sometimes I was so stuck,

that I almost had given up.

2 times a setback of several months.

And 5 years is a long time.

 

:) almost a poem.

 

There are some things that I have learned in those years. And I want to share this:

"Keep records of what you test".

"Keep records of new/old idea's, discarded or not".

"Make sure you prototype everything constantly for real life testing".

"Simplify the game to the core".

"Listen to play testers". (If they don't like something, have trouble doing actions or don't understand certain rules) That with or without them giving suggestions.

"Don't listen to play testers". (If they want you to change something without a proper reason)

"Only ask for suggestions if you want to".

 

It was clear to me what I wanted. Although with testing I had to change a lot. Idea's that I had worked on paper, but where truly a hassle when you played. So in the end, I can say; it was not clear to me how I wanted it.

 

---

 

I still remember sending you that crappy explanation of only Infantry. Where only 2 regions fight each other. I should have send you a proper document with some files for printing instead.

 

You could print those maps out if you want. They are my first tier prototypes. All you need to add are units from the list.

But I don't have proper pictures for them yet. You could use anything you want.

Make sure 1 small hexagon has sides of 4 cm.

The total map should be: sides of 48 cm (96 cm max diameter, 83.2 cm min diameter)

The unit cards will be having 2x2cm.

And above all, have a proper printer! Can't stress you enough with that.

 

For mapping, believe it or not. I use Paint. It is the fastest and easiest way once you have created a blanc.

I got a lot of complains that the maps where to small.

I am thinking about making the sides 3 cm yet keeping the 48 total side size. So the map expands from 12x12=144 to 16x16=256 regions.

In return I also have to make my unit cards 1,5x1,5 instead of 2x2. And I don't know if the map could hold up to 6 players at that point.

 

---

 

Hmnmmmm, I should post here what the statistics mean.

 

Unit:
How the unit is called.

 

Group:
Certain production facilities produce a certain unit group.
Barracks train Infantry
Heavy factories train Tanks
Mine layer center lays mines. etc.

 

Number:
Is the maximum number of these units allowed on the board for 1 player.

 

Costs:
Is what a player pays for training/building this unit.
In this version, it is also the size and the statistics of this unit.

 

Armor:
Is the maximum allowed damage on this unit for each projectile that hits.
If the incoming projectile is lower, than the Damage of the incoming projectile is used.
1 Sub T: 1 is the Armour, Sub T means it is a sub terrain unit. And the enemy only can use AT-X weaponry for hitting this unit. It also has its own dimension for a maximum of 3600 placed in a region.

 

Health:
Always 3 times the Armor. Structures have 15 times the Armor. When there are enough damage counters on this unit, it dies.

 

Durability:
When an enemy attacks this unit. It is what the enemy needs to roll, or less, for each projectile.
Meaning, if it says 6. The enemy doesn't have to roll, it is a hit anyway.
If it is for example 4. Then the enemy needs to roll a 4 or less for each projectile to place a hit.

 

Speed:
If the unit decides to move, no more than this number.

 

Multiplier:
The number of projectiles that this unit shoots.
3 Sui. (Sui. = Suicidal) Means that this unit shoots 3 times. But immediately dies after.

 

Accuracy:
When this unit attacks an enemy. It is a number that this unit has to roll, or less, for hitting an enemy.
Meaning, if it says 6. This unit doesn't have to roll, it is a hit anyway.
If it is for example 4. Then this unit needs to roll a 4 or less for each projectile to place a hit on the enemy.

 

Damage:
Is the maximum allowed damage with this unit for each projectile that hits.
If the Armour of the enemy is lower, than that number is used.
1 AT-X: 1 is the Damage. AT-X means it can hit sub terrain units only. Each projectile also follows a path underground, like a shock wave. Unlike projectiles above ground, this one cannot cross water, but does cross bedrock/mountains.
50 Res (Res. = Resources).: This unit can carry 50 Resources for each Multiplier. All resources are 50 chips. Bigger units could carry less than allowed.

 

Range:
How far an unit can shoot.
There is a bonus of 1 extra Range if this unit cannot move into that region. Meaning, if a region has for example 3000 worth of units while this unit costs 900. It is 3000+900=3900 > 3600. This unit gets +1 range.
Defenses also can gain +1 range, as if they are able to move.
Production also can gain +1 range, as if they are able to move. But the surrounding regions have to be completely filled instead.
The main reason for this rule is that 0 ranged units don't need to move into a region any more.
Be warned, mines do not apply to this rule since they are underground units. However, if a neighboring region is completely filled with mines, then those adjacent can join the fun too. Especially handy if the enemy moves on a region where the wrong mines are stationed.

 

XP:
Experience costs for increasing a certain statistic on that unit.
Health+: increases Health by one time Armour. More Damage counters can be put on this unit before it dies.
Weapon+: Increases Damage effects in the last dice roll. Normally you roll 0-0-1-1-2-2 with each projectile. Where 0 means a miss, 1 is a hit and 2 is a double hit. With one upgrade you may re roll if you throw 1 or lower. With 2 levels, you have to throw 2 or lower. Once you have reached level 6, you simply use 2 dice. And the re roll is now based on the second dice. Where level 7 allows you to do a re roll of 1 and lower on the second dice.
Both H+ and D+ increase to 2 times the costs after 3 upgrades. Then they increase to 3 times the costs after another 3 upgrades. etc.
Speed and Range increase by 1 after paying the XP. Then the very next time the XP costs increase by SR+
NO means NO upgrades possible.

 

---

 

Well, there you have it. The game should be playable somewhat.

But I still have lots of rules to post. But that is for another time. Me and my buddies have discovered yet another error in one of our rules.

[THE AQIB]

Very informative..

I've got even more ideas from this..

Thanks X3M..

Say is this pure rts or tbs??

You have a version which can be used??

I can try testing it..

[X3M]

It isn't real time. And there are no timers.

But it isn't completely turn based either.

 

There are situations where players can cut in whenever they want.

This means that 2 or more players do an action at the same time.

This happens when:

- One player is moving around. And others want to attack him/her. Then players play their turn ahead of time completely, the maximum is until a player spends all actions in that round. But there is also a penalty for the attacking player. So better spend the action points with care.

- A player gets attacked while standing still, the defending player can shoot back at the exact same time. That is kinda playing his/her turn 0,5 ahead of time. This is actually the normal fight.

- Some Event Cards give the right to play a normal action before other players do so.

- Some Event Cards allow a player to play several actions on 1 squad, while it only costs 1 action point.

 

Once an unit has done anything in 1 round, it is done doing stuff. It can be either shoot or move. Unless certain Event Cards are played.

 

- My manual needs updates after last 2 weeks of testing. You get a copy as soon as I have updated it.

I always suck in explaining things.

 

What more do you need?

- As said before, try to print one of the maps on paper. Each region should have a side of approximately 4 cm.

- Until now, for the units, we used papers with names on them. If you can get your hands on paper and scissors, you can simply add units while playing.

- We also used the same size papers for damage inflicted, XP, upgrades (and resources)

- For the event cards, we used normal cards and pasted the word on it.

 

The game is very complex if you play it for the first time:

- First things first. When you start, only pit 2 little armies against each other for training. Force them to fight.

- Once you get a hang of it. You can play on the map instead.

 

---

 

You are working on a card game? That is different than a board game.

I am curious what you thought of?

[THE AQIB]

It isn't real time. And there are no timers.

But it isn't completely turn based either.

 

There are situations where players can cut in whenever they want.

This means that 2 or more players do an action at the same time.

This happens when:

- One player is moving around. And others want to attack him/her. Then players play their turn ahead of time completely, the maximum is until a player spends all actions in that round. But there is also a penalty for the attacking player. So better spend the action points with care.

- A player gets attacked while standing still, the defending player can shoot back at the exact same time. That is kinda playing his/her turn 0,5 ahead of time. This is actually the normal fight.

- Some Event Cards give the right to play a normal action before other players do so.

- Some Event Cards allow a player to play several actions on 1 squad, while it only costs 1 action point.

 

Once an unit has done anything in 1 round, it is done doing stuff. It can be either shoot or move. Unless certain Event Cards are played.

 

- My manual needs updates after last 2 weeks of testing. You get a copy as soon as I have updated it.

I always suck in explaining things.

 

What more do you need?

- As said before, try to print one of the maps on paper. Each region should have a side of approximately 4 cm.

- Until now, for the units, we used papers with names on them. If you can get your hands on paper and scissors, you can simply add units while playing.

- We also used the same size papers for damage inflicted, XP, upgrades (and resources)

- For the event cards, we used normal cards and pasted the word on it.

 

The game is very complex if you play it for the first time:

- First things first. When you start, only pit 2 little armies against each other for training. Force them to fight.

- Once you get a hang of it. You can play on the map instead.

 

---

 

You are working on a card game? That is different than a board game.

I am curious what you thought of?

Mine is based on a multiplayer campaign..

Choose a house insignia, give a name and start of in the vast arrakis..

2p minimum and can hold upto 6p..

but in versus battle until now i've made gameplay only for 2p..

Upgrades are available to all but only one upgrade per level and this upgrade is available only after we have a number of regions under our control..

It's based of Dune 2000 and mostly it's same except only 2 players can play one map and it's turn based..

Spice coins are used to buy stuff..

We will have defense buildings with us and can build more..

And offense is also possible..

A unit can handle two hits only..

And there are few rules of one shot kills like sniper hit infantry is one hit kill..

If we have repair pad we can repair our units..

And excess carryall other than the ones used by harvesters can help in immediate transport of the unit back to base..

If no carryalls they have to be moved by their speed (Siege Tank 1 move per turn, Trike 3 moves per turn)..

Harvesters need to be on map for three turns for one spice coin(still not decided yet) to be in your possession..

Spice Refinery and Silos are needed to hold your spice or you might loose a lot..

Unit construction buildings allow you to build new units as per your research..

Startport cost differ by dice throw..(I still haven't fixed this as of yet)..

SuperWepons also available..(Ornithopter Strike, Death Hand etc..)

Well thats all for now..

 

PS : I'm not creating a new topic as of yet so i posted here.. You can just point out any problems there is in this post..

[X3M]

I don't mind. It is somehow the same topic. Its just your work.

On BGDF it is often confusing if one is doing a board game or a card game.

And sometimes they simply have only dice.

 

The Health is something that I always wonder about in games.

I had 6, but now I use 3 because of various mathematically and balance reasons.

The difference with other games is that I want Speed and Range to be balanced as well. There for it is important to know the Health.

I got an excel with all Health possibilities for my game. This for easy; balancing, XP and costs calculation, and normal default values on R and S.

I checked 1 to 15 Health values. But those values are only for my game.

 

You said you only have 2 Health for each unit? Each unit is at some immediate risk. Same can be said about having 3 Health, but less.

 

What are the statistics that you use on your units?

What is your combat mechanic?

Can you give me examples on both questions?

 

Dice throwing for Starport differences in costs. Is a good idea. Allow the player to do that only once in a while. Harvesters take 3 turns as well. 1 Dice doesn't offer much options. You can't have a 100% value combined with the same down and up limit. 2 down and 3 up or 3 down and 2 up. Not very balanced. Unless you allow re-rolling. But then you could get into an infinite loop. Try to refrain of that. Unless...

1 = 60%

2 = 80%

3 = 100%

4 = 120%

5 = 140%

6 = out of stock.

 

---

 

Meanwhile, I am marking unneeded text purple in my manual. I think I make a copy for future works. And clean 1 version entirely based on the current game. But working on manuals requires a lot of work and rereading. I am now on 1/3th to give you an idea of the progress.

[THE AQIB]

units have

defense

range

altitude

speed

defense is based on terrain..

mountains, sand, rock etc.

if both attacker and attacked are on the same terrain higher probability of attack being successful..

else success varies by other factors..

range allows long ranged units to attack short ranged without getting hit..

altitude is used for differing air vehicles and land vehicles..

for example missile tank is both aa and anti land..

speed determines number of squares that a unit can move per turn..

extra stuff

1. attack sickness: some units can't attack even after they are moved to a position..

2. stealth: only infantry standing within range=1 can attack these vehicles..

3 splash damage:

this is of two types

3a bullet splash damage : seige can do 1 attack on units around the unit it attacked..

3b self destruct splash damage: does 1damage to units around it..

4 sonic effect: all units between attacker and the attacked are damaged..

unit can be repaired if we have a repair pad in base buildings..

extra carryall can pick up a vehicle to instant transport.. or it has to roll back turn based..

4unit per order in starport and each unit will have seprate profit loss percentage..

well this game can extend to infinite time..

also we can play random maps also..

other than multiplayer campaign..

i'm also trying to create a singleplayer campaign but it's problematic..

what about in map elemdnts like capturable neutral buildings or factions which might help/attack us..

Unfortunately I suck at making board game ai..

[X3M]

So its a board game that you work on. :)

Anyway, you are mentioning things that I had done some research on:

 

AI:

I tried to create AI for my board game too. But after 1 week of plotting. I decided to quit with the AI. My game is too complex for that. The game is not fool proof, not to mention the AI.

Although I did come up with some "basic" AI rules to follow for some of my first missions. Players would act the same way any way. But these would be complex too.

 

For all missions: In a most optimal combat; target selection if there is a choice:

Tier 1 choices:

If one shot remains to death, place that shot.

Tier 2 choices:

In case of the light weaponry, shoot light, then medium, then heavy.

In case of the medium weaponry, shoot medium, then light, then heavy.

In case of the heavy weaponry, shoot heavy, then medium, then light.

Tier 3 choices:

One that has been slightly injured before.

One that has spend XP on Damage (then on Speed or Range, depending on XP costs for those 2)

One that has spend XP on Health has to be saved for last if possible.

Bonus Tier choice:

Play an Event Card if it gives access to a better target following the above. This means that another target is in another line.

 

There still might be situations where these choices are not optimal. Nor will these choices work in cases where the AI was supposed to plan ahead. For example, if an squad is moving around, planning on attacking the AI that has Infantry. Then you want to damage or take out the Infantry killers first. Players can recognise this. The AI cannot.

 

Further AI notices (Starcraft Editor experience got me working here):

In missions, defences, units and units with patrols can be fixed before hand.

Main problems that I encountered are the build up of a base and forces for the AI.

That too had to be fixed before hand, the base is not to be expanded by the player, only to be replaced if shot down.

And forces or expands that would be build by the AI had to be written down as well.

 

Before the above, I had some discussions with board game designers on BGDF, regarding AI:

http://www.bgdf.com/node/13512

Where notching is mentioned about the above. :)

 

Splash Effects:

Man, did I had trouble with these.

It is one of the hardest things to balance. And for a board game, never recommended.

I already had trouble with suicide units, special weaponry and the squishing of Infantry. But those troubles are over.

 

A siege tank splash is very tough to do. In RTS there is still some simple way to deal with it. But in a board game, all you can do is allowing multiple projectiles to be divided amongst the targets while making sure the maximum is killed off.

 

A sonic tank splash, the same as the siege tank splash. However, friendly fire is a no no in my game. Unless you go for a kill on your own, then there is no enemy fire, sort of speak. In my game you can only target 1 region (or 2 if an enemy is standing in your own region where you are firing from). However, I did come up with a "flack" type of sonic splash. Where you can fire 1 projectile at a range of 6, 2 at a range of 5, 3 at a range of 4 etc. Resulting in a long range with a weak weapon, but a short range proofs to be very deadly.

 

Minimum range? :

Do you have that one? I do :). In my version, this is how it works:

You can strategically approach units by using mountains as cover. If you manage to move inside the minimum range. The other unit cannot return fire. 0 range is common in my game.

Since I don't want to shift infinitely. A Sonic blast would have no 0 and 1 range, and the maximum range has +1. Thus certain flame units and very fast units will already be a treat. Then the missile or rocket launcher might have no 0, 1, 2, and 3 as range. But the maximum range has +2.

The 2 minimums in these examples.

So a range of 2-2 (=12 fields) for the cost of range 1 (0-1= 7 fields).

And a range of 4-4 (=24 fields) for the cost of range 2 (0-2= 19 fields).

But the more fields, the less cost efficient. And thus minimum range has more risks and less bonuses.

Also keep in mind, when 1 unit approaches another. A minimum range shortens the time when the opponent can be hit.

Minimum range is actually used for making cost efficient versions of long ranged units.

 

In combination with special weaponry and a minimum range. I could upgrade my Snipers to "deadlier" versions against Infantry. But that only works on open or large maps.

 

Rules:

Although you have written down stuff for me. Is it sufficient to play the game? It is often recommended to board game designers to write down every new rule immediately in a manual. That way you can simply share your current version with any one. And you know that I have failed that in a way. However, I need to check 16 pages already :D.

 

RPS:

Do you know what RPS means? Rock Scissor Paper. What beats what?

There are natural and artificial versions.

An example is the long range and speed in my game. Where unit use the terrain for cover. That one is a natural one.

 

The artificial one is often damage effects against armor types. Mine is natural from the base. But is starting to look like an artificial one due to making things simpler.

If you see something like: Sniper does 150% damage against Infantry, that is artificial.

If you see something like: Sniper shoots 6 times, with 1 damage each, then it is natural. Because it depends on the other game mechanics how the Sniper is good against Infantry.

 

Which RPS do you use or occurs in your game? And how?

[X3M]

Instead of 12x12, I have now created a 15x15 map.

No more orange regions, since I want to put resources in dessert, grass and forests.

Player starts are now crosses instead of purple.

The prototypes are starting to become color blind friendly?

 

The map is very symmetric, except for 1 resource. That one is "spiral" symmetric.

I need to do more spiral symmetric maps. They look more random in a way. Just like the one of 2 players above on this page.

 

 

Roughly needed 10 minutes for that one.

A little bit more experimenting is needed to see if this size will support up to 6 players.

I think not. But then I simply create a 18x18 map. If I keep up with the 1 metre max. Then regions would be 2,6 cm. That is 1 inch. Hmmm... of the odds.

[X3M]

Play tested 2 maps.

 

- 15x15 seem to be working well for 2 or 3 players. Although, I have not yet tried to make one for a max of 6. We decided to cut some into pieces and simply use one board as a base.

 

- Me and my friends are starting to doubt the use of having dessert alongside of grass. 1 of them should get a little bit of a different property.

 

- My friends are wondering when I add mixed terrain. For the prototypes, I could use striped or squared templates. Although this takes time in paint. And Hexagrapher doesn't really support that either. They only have 50-50 terrains like swamps and lesser mountains.

 

- 1, 2 and 3 regions only support the player with that much resources (50 - 100 - 150 each turn). They also are depleted after harvesting 72 times. Resulting in 3600 - 7200 - 10800 as a max. So some new maps called Spiral. They have more in the centre. They also will support the use of the other 2 resource gatherers. Until now we only used Workers. Which are slow and need to be placed in line. The first one had 12, or 600/turn and a total of 43200. Which allows for an army size of 1/3th of the maximum possible. It was a win for me since I prepared my Gatherers and Cargo Trucks with sufficient anti Infantry material. No workers to be found :).

 

- Low resources where for fast testing. I made that clear to my buddies.

 

- However, they now do know that once the main bases have no resources left. The one who is fastest in hunting, will probably win. So there is a declaration of loss halfway the game. Unless all prepare in time. I expect harder games (for me) to come.

 

- Perhaps a rate different then the total storage? Having low rates with high storage in a resource point expands game time and increases tactical decisions. Great for the main base. Hunting spots should be limited in storage or have high storage as well. Either way, some stay to the end, others should perish once gathered. Although putting this on the map in numbers seems to be difficult. I am testing this already for an hour. :(. And to top it of, I only thought of a good way for the complete Hexagons. The parts simply don't support the new way. hmmmm. Maybe symbols instead of numbers. But that is for a next time.

 

- For the picking. No limit in gathering rate. The storage is all that matters.

 

* Above all, my prototype map making goes faster now then printing them. :) My protocol for editing goes fast.

First I make the map, in the same time I decide where resources are placed by placing an orange block in the lower right corner. Then I place numbers outside the map and simply copy paste them where I want them. Cleaning up around the text and removing the orange blocks.

 

 

 

The progress on 1,5 hours between the 2 maps.

 

THE AQIB,

you didn't answer my question about RPS? :)

 

[X3M]

A thought just occurred to me.

 

If I use this forum for my maps. I can print them out on work in high quality and high definition. Without wasting my own paper and "expensive" ink. And without having to log in on the slow hotmail network. Nor will they see my hotmail password.

 

[THE AQIB]

I still didn't understand rps properly..

can you explain with examples??

[X3M]

RPS; Rock Paper Scissor,

Paper beats Rock beats Scissor beats Paper.

 

Another example; dune 2000:

Light Infantry beats Troopers beats Quads beats Trikes beats Light Infantry.

[THE AQIB]

RPS; Rock Paper Scissor,

Paper beats Rock beats Scissor beats Paper.

Another example; dune 2000:

Light Infantry beats Troopers beats Quads beats Trikes beats Light Infantry.

no I still haven't done rps system yet but it'll match dune 2000's..

although there are extra infantry and super weapons to accommodate upto 6 players..

also tech tree's vary by player's choice..

ie : sniper will be taken by one while someone else will take mortar infantry..

 

hence only thing common is tech tree levels..

infantry

engineer

heavy infantry

special infantry

light vehicles

harvesters

combat vehicles

medium vehicles

heavy vehicles

special vehicles

[X3M]

If you are planning to have a RPS, design this first. Because it determines your combat speed, which is your game speed. And you have to base you resource management on your game speed. I am lucky that my combat speed is limited by turns. This way I have a bigger array of resource management possible. Build up is also limited. However, we haven't reached that speed yet.

 

Game progression:

I have a clean build up.

After a while the build up goes slower.

Then the armies reach a max.

Then resources start getting depleted.

Then there is a decline for every one.

It is during the entire game, the most tactical person wins. However, disturbing build up for others or nagging the most of resources are both tactical advantages that a player should try to grasp.

 

Army build up:

So a choice of units then. That is a good idea.

However, when I tried that I discovered that you need to do this in classes.

It is logical that a player should not choose between a trike or a combat tank. Different type of armor and different type of damage.

But I had choices like the one you mentioned. Just a difference in weapon. That too is a bad choice.

The best way is to allow players to choose out of unit that are having the same armor type, and the same damage type.

 

Unless you want to have some sort of chaos game. Those are fun and you should allow players to make the weirdest combinations :).

 

---

 

Working on terrain pictures. These will also allow me to have the one to 5 parts of 6 types of terrain.

 

Maybe you can help me with something.

Me and my friends are wondering what the difference between grass and sand should be? Technically they are the same. Visually they are only a difference in color.

- I personally thought of speed restrictions, but I already have that in the form of terrain blockades. And speed restrictions makes things unbalanced and too complex. So, no speed restrictions.

- And having a size reduction on the sand is also something weird to do since I already have forests or terrain combinations for that.

- Having building restrictions is also a no no.

 

Gona need some time on this one. But it will be rewarding if I find a solution.

[X3M]

- And having a size reduction on the sand is also something weird to do since I already have forests or terrain combinations for that.

- Having building restrictions is also a no no.

 

Gona need some time on this one. But it will be rewarding if I find a solution.

 

Well, after some advice from several people on several forums. Even though some had suggestions that I already had worked out. The main problem was not solved by any of them.

 

So I simply asked my co-worker, the ww2 specialist.

He said, Sand gave bad footing, and damaged machinery over time.

The units also kept more distance.

 

For basic units:

So Sand has become 50% movement/placement, 100% projectile movement. The sub terrain is still dirt.

In comparison with the other region types:

Water is 0% movement, 100% projectile movement. Sub terrain is water

Grass is 100% movement, 100% projectile movement. Sub terrain is dirt

*Forest is 50% movement, 50% projectile movement. Sub terrain is dirt

Mountain is 0% movement, 0% projectile movement. Sub terrain is bedrock

 

* Forests are more of an addition now. The 50% will be a factor instead. On grass, they have a default effect of 50% movement. On Sand they will now have an effect of 25% movement.

On water, they are combined with grass or sand.

On mountains, they are combined with grass or sand.

For both meaning that players first take a look on the distribution between water/mountains with grass/sand. What remains is factored with the forest.

 

I could name combinations out of these. Like swamp or Beach. But I have decided not to. Since 1 region will exist out of 6 segments based on these.

There is a lot of work to do. Even if it sounds logical. Eventually, there will be terrain that players don't understand and apply wrong.

So there will be an extended terrain section in the manual.

[X3M]

Detailed designs of textures. How far should I go?

It is 100% home made. That is for sure. :)

 

Textures done:

 

Water symbol

Grass symbol

Dessert symbol

 

Tree's on Grass addition

Dead Tree's on Dessert addition

 

A hexagon has 6 triangles. Each triangle contains 4 symbols. And a Tree can be added. Each hexagon can have 6 different triangles.

 

However, for even more detailed changes. Or better yet, a good distribution of the textures on 1 hexagon:

Removing the middle symbol, and 33-33-33 type of terrains can be made.

When a Tree is added, 2 symbols disappear. And 2 remain to leave options open for a mixed terrain of 50-50. The Tree has influence on all 3 symbols. If a terrain is going to have 3 types, then a group of 3 triangles need to get each a different combination.

 

---

 

Troubles are encountered.

 

Textures pending:

Mountains. Seems to be the hardest. The texture is brown with boulders on it.

I also want to have these boulders in;

Water

Grass

Dessert

 

But that in combination with (Dead) Tree's?

There is hardly any room to draw the boulders and distinguish the rest.

 

My options are:

- Find a way anyway to put in boulders as well, not on the symbols, nor on the Tree's.

- Replace Tree's with the boulders. Since Forest properties are 50% that of Mountain properties.

- A complete Mountain texture can have smaller boulders on the place of the symbols.

 

---

 

When making maps. At first placing the textures will be a bit clumsy. But after making more and more maps. The combination of textures with neighbouring textures will increase. And a simple copy paste will be the result.

 

I never knew that making the board itself with proper textures (also regarding color blindness) would consume so much time.