Response to Hwi

[SandChigger]

SandChigger when you go to Hell what will be your choice? To 'swim in boiling hot semen' or 'in boiling hot shit'?

Still I am a bit happy when I am reading the Talmud: How much you try and how amusing your posts are, still you can't beat that SandChigger! [evil] LOL!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

So, does athanasios have some compromising pix or other sensitive information about the moderators here? ::)

[SandChigger]

When you say 'Paulian', do you mean any Gospel or Book in the New Testament and Pseudo-Epidgrapha, or just those written by Paul?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? How by the fires of your fantasy fictional Hell could you take "Paulian" in what I wrote above to refer to the texts? Jesus Fucking Christ, take your brain off auto-pilot for a while.

When I use "Paulian"

[Mahdi]

So, does athanasios have some compromising pix or other sensitive information about the moderators here? ::)

As everyone knows, I'm the one with the compromising pics around here.

As for these threads, I can speak only for myself.  They've been tightly moderated in the past.  They've been locked and deleted in the past.  But it never seems to make a difference as they pop up again a month later.  So, this time, I figured why even try?  Lets see what happens if I just let these same small group of people insult each other ad nauseum.  Eventually, will everyone get bored of posting the same replies over and over again with varying insults?  Or will it become something of a perpetual motion machine, forever propelling the post count of PRP forward?  Maybe I'll wake up someday, open one of these threads, and get so fed up with all the BS that I lock every single one of them and ban everyone posting in them.  Who knows what will happen?  Maybe I should make some odds and take some bets.

[SandChigger]

Thanks, Mahdi. It's always a pleasure to watch principled moderation at work. ;)

[Mahdi]

Like I said, I can only speak for myself, not the other moderators.  I may not be behaving as a principled moderator (whatever that is supposed to mean) but I am fair.  Were I to start moderating these threads your greek friend wouldn't be alone in having his posts deleted/recieving a temp ban for flaming.  You all have asked for the freedom to express yourselves without censor, now I'm giving it to you.  Most likely things will degrade to the point where I will have to lock and delete everything posted in these threads and this experiment will be a failure.  Looks like that is where this is heading. But for now I'll just sit back and keep watching what happens.  Maybe less offensive posts will start kreeping in.  Maybe.

BTW, not one post has yet been submitted for moderator review in any of these threads.  Nor have I, or any other moderator to my knowledge, been contacted with a complaint.       

[SandChigger]

Hmm. Could the board be malfunctioning then? Because I've submitted several of athanasios' posts for review (including the one above about the boiling semen and shit). And I've complained to one moderator about what I perceived as a double standard in the behavior of another. (And had a public post asking if there's a double standard at play deleted.) That's what I meant by "principled moderation" (which was not directed at you personally).

Edit: Maybe these posts should be moved to another thread, since they're WAY off-topic?

[Mahdi]

I have not touched any messages whatsoever in these threads.  I received no notifications that posts have been reported either.  Maybe this is due to the software change.  Report mine and I will check my spam filter.  Perhaps there has been a call for these threads to be more strongly moderated and I simply have not gotten those messages.  If so, I apologize, not just to you but to everyone posting in here. If you, or anyone else would like, feel free to IM me. I will not promise what, if any, action will be taken but I will read what is said and try to judge them fairly.

[Mahdi]

Unfortunately, I am posting from my blackberry so I cannot alter threads at this time (or review and edit my messages before posting) but you are correect about them being off topic.  If you, or anyone else, wish to discuss this further please IM me.

[MrFlibble]

If I am permitted to state my opinion, I find it very unlikely that hate-posting is going to cease by itself; perhaps for a while, but then it might start over again. So I agree with SandChigger that decisive action on the moderator's side is called for here. (After all, remember that guy who came from BlizzForums, falsely claiming to be an acquaintance of mine, and then started posting hateful stuff and attacking Dante? He had to be dealt with :-X)

[ErasOmnius]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? How by the fires of your fantasy fictional Hell could you take "Paulian" in what I wrote above to refer to the texts? Jesus flipping Christ, take your brain off auto-pilot for a while.

When I use "Paulian"

[SandChigger]

No. There was no way your question followed logically or genuinely from what I wrote. You were and are being an asshat. I'm sure your imaginary Jesus is well pleased with you.

I've been using "Paulian" here long enough that anyone who has read any of my posts and who has any sort of memory retention should know what I meant.

Now go find someone else to nail you up on your cross, hypocrite.

[arnoldo]

Hwi,

Regarding Isaiah 53, Jews interpret this (it begins in Isaiah 52:13) as referring to the righteous remnant of Israel (which is spoken of throughout the Prophets).  It is the custom in the book of Isaiah to call Israel/Jacob/Jeshurun by the word avdi/My servant (a conjugation of the noun 'eved'), and the things described in these verses are things which appear throughout the Hebrew Bible in reference to Israel.  Psalm 44 includes many the same themes.

The following is Isaiah 53 from the DSS

. . . and a comparison between a portion of it and the KJV

Below is the King James Version of Isaiah 53:1-3.

[1] Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

[2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.

[3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Below is the same passage from the Great Isaiah Scroll. Differences between the King James Version and the Great Isaiah Scroll are underlined. While these differences are not severe, at least in these few passages, it clearly demonstrates that more than 17 differences exist in Isaiah 53 between the Dead Sea Scrolls and the King James Version.

[1] Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

[2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor he hath comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire ourselves.

[3] He is despised and rejected of men and man of sorrows, and he knows grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; and despised him, and we esteemed him not.

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/31_masorite.html

It's a bit of a stretch to claim Isaiah 53 is referring to the nation of Israel rather than a "suffering servant" isn't it?  In Psalm 44 when Israel is described it isn't by referring it to as a single person . . . rather collectively by terms such as "us," "we", "our", etc.

Psalm 44

1We have heard with our ears, O God, our fathers have told us, what work thou didst in their days, in the times of old.

2How thou didst drive out the heathen with thy hand, and plantedst them; how thou didst afflict the people, and cast them out.

[SandChigger]

It's a bit of a stretch to claim Isaiah 53 is referring to the nation of Israel rather than a "suffering servant" isn't it?

The authors of The Oxford Bible Commentary and Peake's Commentary on the Bible (just two I happened to have on hand here at home) don't seem to think so. (I'm sure they have both there in your public library, if that's where you're posting from again.) Not to mention all the Jews represented by Eliyyahu.

You do realize that the language is poetic and metaphorical, yes? ::)

(Kudos, though, for demonstrating your ability to find a large and ugly image of the text. And for the hubris that allows you to school a Jew on Isaiah. ;) )

[arnoldo]

The Oxford Bible Commentary questions whether the servant is "likened to an asam (offering for sin)" and adds the caveat "If it is accepted as it stands the poetical fancy of the writer envisages the suffering of the servant as comparable to that of a blameless animal victim, like that of the lamb."  Earlier prophets, such as Jeremiah, described Israel as anything but blameless before the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. However it could be argued that Israel was the suffering servant which was offered up as a sacrifice to itself I suppose.  The Peak Commentary on the Bible doesn't help your argument either I'm afraid.

In the "Suffering Servant" passages in Is. 40-55, the highest revelation of the Divine grace in the OT is seen in His action in identiyfing Himself through His Servant with the suffering, scattered people, and bearing their sins and sorrows on His own heart.

[chatfsh]

Hwi,

Regarding Isaiah 53, Jews interpret this (it begins in Isaiah 52:13) as referring to the righteous remnant of Israel (which is spoken of throughout the Prophets).

Is it not true that some very highly esteemed Jewish rabbis and philosophers aptly applied this passage to the Messiah? Not Yeshua, per se, but to the Messiah, nonetheless.  For example:

And in it is Messiah ben David who loves Jerusalem.  Elijah of blessed memory takes hold of his head, places it in his lap and holds it, and says to him:

[Caid Ivik]

Hmm. Could the board be malfunctioning then? Because I've submitted several of athanasios' posts for review (including the one above about the boiling semen and shit). And I've complained to one moderator about what I perceived as a double standard in the behavior of another. (And had a public post asking if there's a double standard at play deleted.) That's what I meant by "principled moderation" (which was not directed at you personally).

Edit: Maybe these posts should be moved to another thread, since they're WAY off-topic?

[mod]I must admit I had a lot to do plus one party today; I'm not aware of athanasios being present and taking compromising pictures of me. As Mahdi mentioned, it really lags somehow; the complaint came only a few hours ago and is being reviewed.[/mod]

[Eliyyahu]

arnoldo,

. . . and a comparison between a portion of it and the KJV

That is not a comparison between the DSS Isaiah and the KJV, it is a comparison of an attempted English translation of the DSS Isaiah and of the KJV (also a translation).  And none of it addresses the deception of translating mi- and m

[ErasOmnius]

No. There was no way your question followed logically or genuinely from what I wrote. You were and are being an asshat. I'm sure your imaginary Jesus is well pleased with you.

I've been using "Paulian" here long enough that anyone who has read any of my posts and who has any sort of memory retention should know what I meant.

Now go find someone else to nail you up on your cross, hypocrite.

You entertain me.

But I am really interested in where so-called 'religious' people's 'compromise point' is. You see, that's the question that we religious people face, in this, the so-called great West [and Japan, of course]. I wouldn't want to leave you out.

So many people claim to be so religious, and have said so many wonderful things -- but I want to see just how 'silent' they can be in the midst of censorship, persecution, horrible name-calling. I find it interesting how so-called Christian people will change thier point of view to 'fit in'.

Now you, and your day-old censorship Crusade. I am finding it amusing that the ultimate cusser' and swearer [you] is chasing after poor athanasios, who has a hard time with English.

Oh dear 'friend' SandChigger, who is known throughout the Dune World as the ultimate tell-it-like-it-is person, did his response about hell really bother you that much?

[Mahdi]

Well, after receiving a number of PM's the overwhelming train of thought seemed to be "Yes, let us post what we want as insultingly as we like without censoring or locking threads, but then censor and lock the threads!"

So these convos are over.  Lets see if everyone can cool down a bit.