Command & Conquer 4

[Edric O]

The end is the beginning...

Not long ago (one or two weeks, I believe), EA officially announced C&C 4. Now, they've released the first official trailer. It's a story trailer, not a gameplay one, and it shows what might be a very interesting plot twist. I won't spoil it for you - go ahead and watch:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-debut-command/53140

What I find particularly exciting is not that they've announced another Tiberium game, but that they're marketing it as the LAST Tiberium game. Could we perhaps get some answers at long last? The Tiberium storyline so far has only piled up questions on top of questions. Even Kane's Wrath didn't really explain anything and just opened a few more mysteries. Is this when we finally find out what's really going on, or will EA leave the big questions unanswered forever?

Here's my personal list of Tiberium-universe questions. Feel free to add to it, and let the speculation begin:

Who is Kane and what does he really want?

Why is Kane ageless, and how does he keep coming back from the dead?

What is the Tacitus and who built it?

What is the origin of Tiberium?

Was Tiberium designed by some entity for some purpose? If so, who is that entity and what is the purpose?

What is the relationship between the Scrin and Tiberium? It appears the Scrin go around harvesting Tiberium from "infected" planets. Do they send it to those planets, or do they follow around some sort of natural Tiberium distribution process?

The Scrin need Tiberium to live. Were they always like this, or are they a warning of what might happen to humanity if it embraces Tiberium?

What is the relationship between the Scrin and Kane?

[Dunenewt]

Certainly looks interesting, although I thought the whole series went downhill after Red Alert!  I've seen that you need to be online even to play the single player campaigns though :s That doesn't sound too good to me.

[Edric O]

Also, this is a Tiberium game right after a Red Alert game... so the rule that Dune must come after Red Alert has been broken. :-

[gunner154]

I remember reading elsewhere that the gameplay is going to be radically different... pretty far from RTS, but I could be wrong.

[vota dc]

Certainly looks interesting, although I thought the whole series went downhill after Red Alert!  I've seen that you need to be online even to play the single player campaigns though :s That doesn't sound too good to me.

I lurked in their forum....and there are grave news.

The game will have more rpg elements (well veterancy is a rpg element in RTS...but too much rpg could be very bad),no bases (rumor),no tiberium fields but tiberium mines (very strange to explain since cover the Earth surface),no multi-harvesting,preplaced refineries,no scrin (this is a rumor).

[Edric O]

That seems more like a list of unlikely ideas being thrown around by the game developers. I doubt they would make any radical changes to gameplay. After all, this is EA we're talking about. Innovation is not their style.

[gunner154]

Indeed, unlike Relic which turned out the horror now known as Dawn of War 2...

No tiberium fields is a truly weird concept, considering the flavour of losing your troops while they run over the tiberium fields, especially in the older games.

[Dunenewt]

No, this does sound about right, especially considering elements in RA3, such as only being allowed to place the refineries in certain places.

[Sneakgab]

Basically didn't play any of the series after RA but...

The immediate impression one gets from the info gained from Edrico's questions is that Kain is some scrin guy come to fill the planet with tiberium for the tiberium addicts (scrin). This would explain why he keeps coming back (clone, disguise, whatever).

[Edric O]

Basically didn't play any of the series after RA but...

The immediate impression one gets from the info gained from Edrico's questions is that Kain is some scrin guy come to fill the planet with tiberium for the tiberium addicts (scrin). This would explain why he keeps coming back (clone, disguise, whatever).

No, C&C 3 makes it very clear that Kane is not working with the Scrin. Kane manipulates the Scrin into doing what he wants them to do, at the cost of the near-complete destruction of a Scrin fleet, so he is certainly not their friend. In fact, he wants to steal their technology.

However, Kane does know a lot about the Scrin, and the Scrin also mention that some information about Kane already existed in their database before they arrived at Earth (although they do not mention what that information actually is). So it seems that Kane and the Scrin met before, or perhaps they had a common "friend."

Also in C&C 3, GDI discovers some cryptic Scrin communications referring to a second alien race, possibly related to the Scrin. Perhaps Kane is working for that second race, or is one of them.

[Sneakgab]

Maybe he's just an interstellar tiberium drug dealer, come to hook humans on his tiber crack just like he did the scrin.

[MrFlibble]

Well, one thing is certain about Kane: he's not Duran :P

[Dunenewt]

How dare you make a reference to such an inferior RTS franchise.

[Wolf]

I have to agree with Edric--"Tiberium Wars" was more or less marketed as the "last" Tiberian-series game as well, and we did get questions piled atop questions. However, I have to think that the series is fast approaching the limit of interesting material that it can present. The arrival of the Scrin in C&C3 has pretty much set up the "endgame" for the Tiberian series. They've promised to re-invade Earth, they probably will, and they'll either conquer it or they won't, in either case, I see some sort of end-state developing with Humanity becoming a credible rival to the Scrin interstellar empire, or being wiped out. Or, perhaps, the Scrin will be wiped out. And this will lead me on an interesting (I think) digression:

At the end of Kane's Wrath, we see what I assume to be LEGION's consciousness being warped away from Earth and "toward" the Scrin, arriving at some final destination where it, again, I assume, "infects" some sort of Scrin network. Would it not be interesting that Kane, acting in humanity's interests all along, actually manipulated events such that the human race finally brings about the downfall of the Scrin? How awesome would it be if LEGION invades the Scrin much in the same way that the Scrin invaded Earth--unexpectedly, and from the inside.

And, regarding Kane... well, I always did, and I still do believe that Kane is either the Biblical Cain or Lucifer, himself. I've never seen a game fully incorporate classical science fiction elements (the invading alien speices) with the religious mysticism that might be found in other genres, and I'd love it for the apparent-immortality of Kane and his origins to go unexplained, or left as the mystery of a higher plane of existence; something far, far beyond the limited imagination of even the Scrin.

*And having seen the video, I do see an "endgame" being set-up with what's presented. However, there's something I do want to point out: this game could be like Fallout 3--where you spend 50$ for the initial disc, but can only "find all the answers" after forking over 10-15$ each for 3-4 "downloadable contents." The end may certainly "begin," in 2010, but they're going to try to screw us for all we're worth.

[Edric O]

I have to agree with Edric--"Tiberium Wars" was more or less marketed as the "last" Tiberian-series game as well, and we did get questions piled atop questions. However, I have to think that the series is fast approaching the limit of interesting material that it can present. The arrival of the Scrin in C&C3 has pretty much set up the "endgame" for the Tiberian series. They've promised to re-invade Earth, they probably will, and they'll either conquer it or they won't, in either case, I see some sort of end-state developing with Humanity becoming a credible rival to the Scrin interstellar empire, or being wiped out. Or, perhaps, the Scrin will be wiped out.

I agree, but I fear that the great endgame story of C&C 4 may amount to "Scrin invade Earth, Scrin get beaten back, GDI figures out a way to reverse the growth of Tiberium, the end" - with no further answers about anything. I really hope I'm wrong.

And this will lead me on an interesting (I think) digression:

At the end of Kane's Wrath, we see what I assume to be LEGION's consciousness being warped away from Earth and "toward" the Scrin, arriving at some final destination where it, again, I assume, "infects" some sort of Scrin network. Would it not be interesting that Kane, acting in humanity's interests all along, actually manipulated events such that the human race finally brings about the downfall of the Scrin? How awesome would it be if LEGION invades the Scrin much in the same way that the Scrin invaded Earth--unexpectedly, and from the inside.

Yes, that would indeed by a great plot twist. In fact, any revelation to the effect that Kane has some motive beyond getting power for himself would be awesome. All the Tiberium games have strongly hinted at some greater plan on Kane's part, but so far we don't know what that might be. When it does finally get revealed, it must, must be something more than just a simple power grab.

And, regarding Kane... well, I always did, and I still do believe that Kane is either the Biblical Cain or Lucifer, himself. I've never seen a game fully incorporate classical science fiction elements (the invading alien speices) with the religious mysticism that might be found in other genres, and I'd love it for the apparent-immortality of Kane and his origins to go unexplained, or left as the mystery of a higher plane of existence; something far, far beyond the limited imagination of even the Scrin.

That's very likely what the original story writers intended, but there's a problem, from a purely RL commercial perspective: If Kane is Cain, then revealing this fact (or anything else surrounding Kane's origin) would inevitably offend large numbers of Christians - no matter how you try to spin it. Since that's a bad marketing move, EA will never do it. They will either leave Kane's origin unexplained (much to my frustration, because I really like to have everything explained at the end), or they will come up with a different origin story that probably won't make much sense.

*And having seen the video, I do see an "endgame" being set-up with what's presented. However, there's something I do want to point out: this game could be like Fallout 3--where you spend 50$ for the initial disc, but can only "find all the answers" after forking over 10-15$ each for 3-4 "downloadable contents." The end may certainly "begin," in 2010, but they're going to try to screw us for all we're worth.

Hey, if they come up with a good story, I won't even complain too much. I mean, you know, it's not like there aren't other means to... err, learn the story... *looks around for the ever-watching eye of Gob* Far be it from me to suggest anything that might go against forum policy to discuss, of course. ;)

[Wolf]

Which is a shame, really (the bit about EA refusing to go the Biblical Cain/Lucifer route due to political correctness), since the Christians didn't kvetch when it was the Ark of the Covenant in Indiana Jones, or the Crusades in Assassin's Creed. Though I, personally, don't think people would actually protest a game that has, as a plot point, the existence of Cain, the brother of Abel, or Satan a la The Master and Margarita, it is true that EA as an institution is so cowardly that they will never even consider the possibility.

[ordos45]

Which is a shame, really (the bit about EA refusing to go the Biblical Cain/Lucifer route due to political correctness), since the Christians didn't kvetch when it was the Ark of the Covenant in Indiana Jones, or the Crusades in Assassin's Creed. Though I, personally, don't think people would actually protest a game that has, as a plot point, the existence of Cain, the brother of Abel, or Satan a la The Master and Margarita, it is true that EA as an institution is so cowardly that they will never even consider the possibility.

I'm not sure I'd say that, Electronics Arts did pay people to pretend to be Christian protesters at E3 for their upcoming ripoff of Dante's Divine Comedy. 

[Edric O]

Yes, but the Divine Comedy rip-off, as well as things like the Ark of the Covenant or the Crusades, can be included in a plot while avoiding making any definitive statements about God.

With Cain and Abel, on the other hand, God directly punished Cain, and there's no way you could tell the story while skipping that part. So, either they'd have to say that God really punished Kane, in which case they'd be confirming the existence of God, or they'd have to say that the entity who punished Kane wasn't really God, in which case they'd be denying the truth of a Biblical story. In either case, lots of people would get offended.

[Wolf]

I disagree--when the Ark of the Covenant explodes open and angels of death melt the faces off of a hundred Nazis, I believe there is at least some tacit recognition of divine power. Nevertheless, I think there might be a middle ground between the two major alternatives that you present, though it would take a measure of subtlety. Even then, we pretty much have to conclude one of these already, for, just how is Kane living through era after era? And they did show Joe Kucan murdering Abel in an inscription on a Hebrew tomb in Renegade--God is either an alien or God is actually God. The real question is... where is Eden? Speaking metaphorically, now, they always said that Nod was specifically an "anti-Western movement," which takes on profound significance when one learns that, in the Bible, Nod was always east of Eden. Does Eden refer to GDI? The Blue Zones? Or is Earth itself the Land of Nod? Frankly, the whole series is, at this point, Judeo-Christian allegory. How many times is Kane crucified?

[Caid Ivik]

Which is a shame, really (the bit about EA refusing to go the Biblical Cain/Lucifer route due to political correctness), since the Christians didn't kvetch when it was the Ark of the Covenant in Indiana Jones, or the Crusades in Assassin's Creed. Though I, personally, don't think people would actually protest a game that has, as a plot point, the existence of Cain, the brother of Abel, or Satan a la The Master and Margarita, it is true that EA as an institution is so cowardly that they will never even consider the possibility.

I guess there are better reasons why to protest against EA than using of biblical names in their names.

[Sneakgab]

''I disagree--when the Ark of the Covenant explodes open and angels of death melt the faces off of a hundred Nazis, I believe there is at least some tacit recognition of divine power. Nevertheless, I think there might be a middle ground between the two major alternatives that you present, though it would take a measure of subtlety. Even then, we pretty much have to conclude one of these already, for, just how is Kane living through era after era? And they did show Joe Kucan murdering Abel in an inscription on a Hebrew tomb in Renegade--God is either an alien or God is actually God. The real question is... where is Eden? Speaking metaphorically, now, they always said that Nod was specifically an "anti-Western movement," which takes on profound significance when one learns that, in the Bible, Nod was always east of Eden. Does Eden refer to GDI? The Blue Zones? Or is Earth itself the Land of Nod? Frankly, the whole series is, at this point, Judeo-Christian allegory. How many times is Kane crucified?''

So... what do you think of my crack dealer theory?  ;D

''Maybe he's just an interstellar tiberium drug dealer, come to hook humans on his tiber crack just like he did the scrin.''

[Edric O]

I disagree--when the Ark of the Covenant explodes open and angels of death melt the faces off of a hundred Nazis, I believe there is at least some tacit recognition of divine power. Nevertheless, I think there might be a middle ground between the two major alternatives that you present, though it would take a measure of subtlety.

I hope you're right. There could be cryptic references to Kane being punished by "Him" without explaining exactly who "He" actually is.

Even then, we pretty much have to conclude one of these already, for, just how is Kane living through era after era?

Kane doesn't just seem immune to the effects of aging, he also appears to be able to reform his body after being disintegrated into subatomic particles by an ion cannon. I can only think of three possible explanations for that:

1. Kane keeps a special backup of his mind that can be downloaded into a new cloned body. The ending of Firestorm strongly suggested this.

2. There is more than one Kane.

3. Kane is some kind of energy being or other incorporeal lifeform who doesn't need a body to survive, and can build itself a new body when needed.

And they did show Joe Kucan murdering Abel in an inscription on a Hebrew tomb in Renegade--God is either an alien or God is actually God.

Yes, but that inscription left the issue of God conveniently unexplained. God is either an alien or actually God, but as long as they don't tell us which of those is true, C&C can rely on a sort of Schrodinger's God.

Also, that wasn't just any old inscription. It was above the tomb of Abel. And Kane mentions that the tomb is "where the Brotherhood began."

The real question is... where is Eden? Speaking metaphorically, now, they always said that Nod was specifically an "anti-Western movement," which takes on profound significance when one learns that, in the Bible, Nod was always east of Eden. Does Eden refer to GDI? The Blue Zones? Or is Earth itself the Land of Nod?

My personal theory is that the Land of Nod is another planet that Kane traveled to after the murder of Abel. This is probably where he learned about Tiberium, and met the Scrin or their ancestors. Kane's immortality is, I expect, the "Mark of Cain." After all, in the Bible, the purpose of the Mark is to ensure that no one will kill Cain. It's not that much of a stretch to go from that to the idea that the Mark grants immortality.

Frankly, the whole series is, at this point, Judeo-Christian allegory. How many times is Kane crucified?

Calling it allegory is giving the writers a bit too much credit. I'm sure they're just making it up as they go along. And the main reason why Kane keeps getting resurrected is because he died in the first game, then they decided to bring him back for Tiberian Sun because he was such a great character, and then resurrection just became Kane's "thing."

[Wolf]

The Tiberium/crack-dealer theory is legitimate; but if that were true, it would mean that the addiction of alien species (including humans) to Tiberium is somehow profitable to Kane. How... we're not really sure. How anything would be profitable to noncorporeal alien beings or godlike entities is beyond me.

[Sneakgab]

Well, the temple of Nod has been around from the beginning (one of the few things I know about the series), so maybe they had some kind of religious theme in mind for Kane from the beginning. Could be they just wanted to give Nod a ''cult'' thing. Could be they just thought it was a cool building though (ie: just coincidence).

I also suspect they just made it up as they went along. How many of the original writers were even still around at different points in the series?

[vota dc]

But who will be enough brave to play the game to discover the truth?There will be population cap in C&C 4!