Big Brother is Back... and He's Gonna Need a Bigger Harddrive!

[Mahdi]

I read about this in the local 24 hours (one of those small, free daily commuter newspapers) a few days ago. 

The U.K. is considering (are you ready for it?) intercepting, recording, and saving every single e-mail, text message, and phone call made in or to the U.K.!

Have none of you English/Welsh/Scots/Northern Irish heard of this?  How is it that this hasn't been mentioned here yet (or have I just missed it?)

Hell, they're even trying to force ISPs to provide them with all U.K. internet surfing records!

In order to provide a source (I'll see if I can find the original article I read in my stack of papers) I did a quick google search and this website popped up.  I've never visited it before, but it has an article from the 21st on this subject:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23731999-2703,00.html

Edit:  Found the original "article" - a 33 word blurb in the May 21st Ottawa edition of the Metro (which is a big international commuters newspaper, I'm sure others of you have seen versions in other cities).  I've also changed the title of this thread and a bit of the content of this message to replace my failing memory with the corrected information.  Here's the full blurb from the Metro:

UNITED KINGDOM  Britain is considering a massive government database to store the e-mails, Internet information, phone-calls and text messages of all residents to help security forces in the fight against crime and terrorism.

2+2=5

[Edric O]

Why don't they arrest everyone - you know, just in case they might be terrorists?

But seriously, I'm not sure who exactly is considering this ridiculous measure, but I highly doubt it could ever get through Parliament. The outcry would be massive, and Gordon Brown is on shaky ground already. Lots of people in the Labour Party are just itching for an excuse to try to bring him down.

[Mahdi]

The outcry would be massive

Really?  You think so?  I don't.  I think our western, democratic societies have reached a point where the people in power can do pretty much anything they want and, sure, there will be arguements, protests, and angry citizens... but ultimately it'd all be for naught, because we won't do anything.  They put up cameras in public parks here recently with speakers in them so city officials can watch you while you play and tell you to move on if you're "loitering" (code for "under thirty").  People don't like it.  People complain.  People don't do anything.

Granted, there's a large degree of difference between those two scenarios, but essentially, the problem is the same.  We're too civilized. We elected the government.  Once in they can pretty much do whatever they want and there's nothing anyone can do about it because we arn't gonna revolt and chop off their heads. 

And ya know what, in the next election, the same government that everyone grumbled about invading their privacy and taking away there civil rights, well, they'll get re-elected.  Because most people always vote along party lines, for no more reason than because there parents voted for one party or another or they live in a conservative or liberal town.  Of those who don't vote among party lines, some will agree with the governments logic.  Others will like the idea that there will be a hell of a lot fewer kiddie porn sites.  And most will simply vote for them for the inevitable tax breaks.  It's the way of the modern world.

Not that a violent revolt would be a good thing it's just that we, right now, don't seem to have a middle ground.  We grumble, and we complain, but they're the ones in power, what are we gonna do, rise up in revolt?  It's said, it's done, there's nothing we can do, accept it and move on.  This seems to be the attitude of most westernized peoples (Edit: Not to exclude myself from this comment either, I'm as guilty of it as anyone else).

[Andrew]

Heh, a guy in New Brunswick is fighting the courts for the ban on skateboards. He skateboards as a method of transportation. And they keep putting him in jail and fining him for doing so. He obeys all the laws (same as a bicycler would) except that he uses a skateboard.

Skater gets support from new councillor

And Mahdi is correct that the people will not do anything about these laws. Protests don't do anything, whether in a 3rd world nation ruled by military, or western country.

Eventually the Canadian version of the DMCA will become law effectively making millions of Canadians criminals. The Iraq war protests have done nothing.

EDIT:

Proposed US ACTA multi-lateral intellectual property trade agreement (2007) via wikileaks

This is essentially a torrent killer law.

The proposal also bans "anti-circumvention" measures which may affect online anonymity systems and would likely outlaw multi-region CD/DVD players.

Hurray vendor lockin! I buy product A and want to play it on Product B, but that is not allowed. I have to buy a different version of product A (say product A1) to play on product B. I cannot "circumvent" product A protection measures because of some stupid laws. So I end up paying twice for Product A. And when a new media format comes out? I have to pay again.

Hopefully it will be as effective as the other measures against information, which penalizes those who legally use the product and not those who obtain illegally.

[Megashrap]

Hell, they're even trying to force ISPs to provide them with all U.K. internet surfing records!

Sounds a little like the U.K.'s version of the Patriot Act.  :-

[Kirby Gotenks absorbed]

I'm happy I don't live in the U.K...

But, isn't this against the law? Don't people have the "Right to privacy", I know S.A. has that (Does the U.K. have that?

[Dragoon Knight]

This is relatively old news.  It's been on the table since something like 2005, but it's nothing to worry about.  They can't force ISPs to divulge that information.  It's just another scare tactic by the copyright fiends.

"Oho, you'd better stop all your illegal downloading before it's too late!  Look what we're trying to introduce!"

Total nonsense.  It will never happen.

[Mahdi]

This isn't about getting isp's to release who's downloading music (which is something the music industry is trying to do everywhere) this is a database containing every phone call, text message, e-mail, and phone call made or destined for the U.K. in order to "fight against crime and terrorism".  I'm surprised they arn't opening your regular mail and scanning it all into the database too!

[gunner154]

Yeah, it's old news. I've been hearing of this a long time ago already. At least a variant of it.

[nemafakei]

I thought this was operational 5 years ago, myself.

[Hypatia]

Any other Canadians here remember the time back in the '90s when the RCMP was opening peoples' mail for no demonstrably sensible reason? I was active in the Society for Creative Anachronism at the time, and it's listed somewhere as a "paramilitary organization." Well, yeah... all the fighters and archers and fencers in their home-made armor and swords, bows, and foils are really going to do some serious invading!  ::) It's probably just a coincidence, but around that time, two of us in our local branch tended to have some of our mail go astray whenever we sent letters to particular cities. Finally, it got to the point that I figured "well, I don't care if they read my mail or not, just as long as they send it along when they're finished!"

Honestly, this hare-brained idea is completely unworkable and unenforceable. And I can see serious litigation happening if they even try. Do they not realize how much of the publishing industry happens online nowadays? I'm one of the copyeditors for somebody in the UK who's been writing novels and short stories, and he emails me what he's written, I read it and send back my comments and corrections, he makes changes, sends them back, and so on until he decides everything's to his liking and then it's off to the next step of the process. Having all this stored in a government database would definitely not be accepted by anybody involved in this business.

[Mahdi]

It didn't end in the mid-90's.  I had a French-Canadian roommate (he wasn't active in any political group, and was working on his masters degree) who ordered a new part for his computer in, oh, 2002 or 03.  It never arrived and the company said they shipped it and gave him a tracking number.  He contacted Canada Post who told him the RCMP had intercepted his mail as part of an ongoing investigation into terror.

[Hypatia]

:O

Yeah, they tend to get paranoid over the dumbest things. I was once picking pine cones near the local DND armouries, and some idiot from there rushed over and demanded to know if I was taking pictures. Considering that I was in high school, had the family dog on a leash, no camera, and a container full of pine cones intended for Christmas decorations, of course I was spying!  ::)

I guess I should feel very fortunate that nobody ever intercepted the stuff I used to get from Minnesota. For several years I subscribed to a Star Trek fanzine published by some very nice people at Intergalactic Underground Press.

My grandmother was worried about that name being on the outside of the envelope. Of course, she was a bit irrational about it: "What will the neighbors think?!"

I assured her that the neighbors had no business knowing the contents of our mailbox, but she worried about it nonetheless.

[Sneakgab]

This kind of thing tends to make me feel more appreciatve of the ''noble'' hackers, ''pirates'', encrypters,e.t.c. Without these ''lovable'' rogues our privacy and ability to entertain ourselves at reasonable costs would be non-existent.

Some might suggest that the internet will allow for the next social/political revolution by providing information and communication so effectively and easily. Might it also be said that the fore-mentioned illegals will thus be indirectly necessary for political revolution? In that case, maybe some of them should be applauded as defiant heroes?

Of course, many of them ply their trade for amusement or profit. However, another motivation (or perhaps the sole reason) for many of them working their magic is rebelliousness and out of ( often understandable) spite for the ''system''.

[nemafakei]

"Well, yeah... all the fighters and archers and fencers in their home-made armor and swords, bows, and foils are really going to do some serious invading!"

To be fair, with a few horses, they'd be able to take the RCMP.

[Hypatia]

I don't know about the American SCA branches, but I never heard of any Canadian branches using horses. SCA is not like RenFaire; it's more authentic and has strict safety standards, which means certain activities and items and materials are forbidden, except for display purposes.

[Andrew]

I'm pretty sure the RCMP use horses, usually when there is going to be a protest. They help because they can see more with being so high in the air.

But I don't know of any of my local RCMP branches using horses regularly.

[Hypatia]

The detachments that have a Musical Ride group would have horses. But I have no idea if the horses would be used for other purposes.

The RCMP around here use cars and bikes. We have an extensive hiking/biking trail system throughout the city, and it finally occurred to them that one way to make them a bit safer would be police bike patrols.

[gunner154]

They might just store mails based on keywords. If I were to use a faulty code to produce gigantic text files full of gibberish and use a script to send them repeatedly between email accounts (and automatically delete them - give allow the transaction of emails to occur to let them grab it). Something's going to blow - the ISP, email service provider, or the government's hard disks.

[Hypatia]

And some words take on a whole different meaning when you're talking about subcultures. Also, the "invented" words used in subcultures, ie. "filk" in SF fandom: It's a completely innocent word that means music/songs based on a science, science fiction, fantasy, or SCA theme. But a lot of people have unfairly assumed I typed a dirty word when I've used it online. I can only imagine what CSIS or the RCMP would make of it.