China issues

[Kokiri-Mentat]

  wow.  sounds fishy.  so.......what happens if this Taiwanese election reins mass chaos combined w/ this little nuclear incident?  Taiwan claims independence, they have nukes. China attacks.......awkward. 

Probably won't happen. but still not good news this article you just posted.

[gunner154]

Next time, someone's going to blow somebody up and claim it to be an accident.

[Andrew]

Beijing orchestrating Tibet riots

Now why would Chinese soldiers need monk clothing. Hmm.

[Kokiri-Mentat]

  OOps.  someone's busted.  looks like they may have bitten off more than they can chew.  we'll see how this plays out in the next month.  Combined w/ the Taiwanese election could be interesting.

Also , when the Dhali Lhama says Tibet freedom does he mean free from China sovereignty or freedom under China law?  I couldn't really tell from the article but in general I always heard him speaking of freedom under China law, not separation.

[Andrew]

China Regime Implicated in Staging Violence in Tibet Protest

[Andrew]

Torch was in London today. Lots of controversy. Someone tried using fire extinguisher on it, another person tried grabbing it.

Chinese state tv did not show anything about the controversy. Chinese citizens knew nothing of it when asked.

This summer is gonna be AWESOME. Tiananmen Square should be fun.

Hope to see more of this:

[Dunenewt]

What is that from?

[Caid Ivik]

I heard about a "gay park" in Beijing, where the homosexuals come to enjoy themselves, however I see no connection to the topic, be it olympics, politics, economics, not even to their weird grammar...

[Andrew]

Hmm, Maybe I accidentally deleted my own post, it was sent to the dungeon.

Here it is:

What is that from?

Two girls kissing in Tiananmen Square.

EDIT:

Torch relay in Paris has been cancelled. Too many protesters.

EDIT:

Some nice big banners were put on golden gate bridge just now by 3 protesters.

Picture here. article with pic here

[Kokiri-Mentat]

This summer is gonna be AWESOME. Tiananmen Square should be fun.

Hope to see more of this:

lol, i second that.

Going back to the elections, my Taiwanese friend was telling me about the election outcome: that the president that is pro-mainland government was elected, and my friend thinks that the Chinese government provoking staged violence in Tibet was a ploy  to get media coverage showing  Taiwan what the Liberation army threatens to do if Taiwan tries to break away.  My friend seems convinced that many Taiwanese changed their vote because of the footage they saw of the Chinese army killing monks.

[Caid Ivik]

I heard about the policy of the Nationalist Party being pro-mainland...but wasn't it in a sense, that they claim to be its government as well? That the communists are illegally there in Beijing?

[Dunenewt]

Yeah, that's right.

[Kokiri-Mentat]

I heard about the policy of the Nationalist Party being pro-mainland...but wasn't it in a sense, that they claim to be its government as well? That the communists are illegally there in Beijing?

Sorry, could you clarify  that? I'm not sure I quite understand you.

[Khan]

It sounds like the National party want to unify China but kick the communists out.

[Dunenewt]

Yes, the National Party (KMT) claim the whole of China as being under the control of Nationalist China/Republic of China, and that Taiwan is simply part of China.  But after so long of just controlling Taiwan, quite a few political elements on Taiwan, are considering renouncing their claim to the mainland, and moving forward with making Taiwan an independent political state recognised by the U.N., which is something both the Nationalist Party of RoC, and the 'Communist' party of the PRC are against.

[Tatar Khan]

Going back to the elections, my Taiwanese friend was telling me about the election outcome: that the president that is pro-mainland government was elected, and my friend thinks that the Chinese government provoking staged violence in Tibet was a ploy  to get media coverage showing  Taiwan what the Liberation army threatens to do if Taiwan tries to break away.  My friend seems convinced that many Taiwanese changed their vote because of the footage they saw of the Chinese army killing monks.

I think the whole Tibet affair was done now in order to prevent it from happening during Olympics, that way it could spoil them. So Chinese made the move to get the anti-Chinese forces in Tibet moving so they will exhaust themselves and would not be able to amount anything during the Olympics. Of course using the active hand in that whole matter was not really smart. I am sure they could have gotten the protests going by just making the young and really hyper active elements in anti-Chinese movement to think that security in Tibet is getting lax and they can pull something off.

[Kokiri-Mentat]

Yes, the National Party (KMT) claim the whole of China as being under the control of Nationalist China/Republic of China, and that Taiwan is simply part of China.  But after so long of just controlling Taiwan, quite a few political elements on Taiwan, are considering renouncing their claim to the mainland, and moving forward with making Taiwan an independent political state recognised by the U.N., which is something both the Nationalist Party of RoC, and the 'Communist' party of the PRC are against.

hmm, that's interesting.  I think I understand now.  and I thought US politics were a mess. :O

[Edric O]

Hehe, I went to see the Olympic Torch relay in London last Sunday. It was pretty fun - I made sure to stay well out of the way of the protesters and police. One thing they didn't mention enough in the media is the fact that there were large numbers of pro-China protesters too, waving Chinese flags around. At Greenwich the police had to separate the pro-China group from the Free Tibet group.

[gunner154]

How could China be so sure that the problem would simmer down by the time the games start? It has to be pretty darn well calculated to decide like that.

[Caid Ivik]

It could have been also organized and calculated by the opposing side, in the way that the problem will become really dire in that time...

[Tatar Khan]

The idea rests on the fact that most of human population of the world has only 2 weeks of memory of political events, so 2 weeks after something happened almost everyone has forgotten it.

China is trying to basically tire the resistance out. You put enough of them in jail, beat enough of them and you get the smaller number of people able to protests. Their command hierarchy could also be devastated by arrests. after sometime the protectors will tire out, and will be less than what they started with, so by Olympics they might not be able to organize anything major at all. Because if this was happening during Olympics there could be athletes who would refuse to participate.

As for calculating this, yeah there are people in politics who more or less study on how to organize protests and how to keep momentum going and what damages momentum and how long can it be kept up.

[Caid Ivik]

Your "most" refers to USA and Europe, not a billion souls. In case of usual NATO summit, the memory really is so short as you say, but in case of wars - and media incline to describe the problem as a beginning of a war - it tends to hold a longer interest. Something like the Russia vs Afghanistan case.

[Tatar Khan]

Memory holds partially if the event is one going. The fact that Soviet union was in Afghanistan is only remembered by few. Do a survey, you will be surprised to find out how few people remember things.

If you ask Canadian university students (the most politically active demographic about which Canadian prime minister sent Canadian forces to Afghanistan, there would be huge number who would say Stephen Harper even though it was the previous one Paul Martin.

How many people would remember right now Israel's invasion of Lebanon very few would be able to tell you what happened there.

When people are not physically involved with the events they forget about them very quickly.

[Caid Ivik]

You can't predict whether the event will be continuing or not. Also, its continuity is independent on the memory of those uninvolved... western media will return to it anytime they find it interesting.

[Sneakgab]

Rather than tiring the resistance and reducing their numbers via authoritarian means, the effect may be quite the opposite if people feel strongly enough about it. Lol, in SA, the ANC was far less worried about their numbers. They actually led a campaign to fill the prisons on purpose. Not sure about the logic there. Without the prisons filled people would be committing crimes till they were filled and imprisonment becomes downgraded as an option. I think the point was to accelerate this to create the impression of a more obviously ridiculous government.

That aside, the moves of the apartheid government only served to spark further dissent. While I guess it is already obvious that the people's will should theoretically prevail in the end (obviously not always the case) the point is that using these authoritian means to recklessly very often results in a backfire. If such a thing happens the Olympics will indeed surely be very ''interesting''. On the upside it may mean even more of the ''action'' in those pics  :P :D